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Saltie 8th Jun 2013 07:52

Whilst I don't disagree with you about the general population's attitude to the queue jumpers 500N, I really think that to put an end to the irregular arrivals, it will have to be made loud and unmistakenly clear worldwide that there is no chance, whatever the circumstances, of getting in through the back door by arriving by boat without documentation. TPVs won't be enough to stop the trade completely. The only difference they will make will be we'll see whole family groups coming together rather than sending out the single visa scout. (End result? A bigger debt to repay to the loan sharks, putting many even further in thrall to God only knows who.)

It will take a succession of incidents as big and 'in yer face' in the world media as the children overboard fiasco - with Australia portrayed very much as the bad guy to achieve that. I don't think Tony Abbott will be able to do that without proverbially blinking.

RJM 8th Jun 2013 10:47

500N, there's also the disruptive potential - as some level-headed (ie non-racist) commentators have noted - of 40,000 low skilled, self-selected, mainly Muslim immigrants eking out an existence in Australia who are likely to be semi-destitute, still on the dole, and probably fairly angry in 5 years' time.

If that unsettling state of affairs comes to pass, we can thank Gillard, who proudly took the credit personally for having dismantled Howard;'s 'inhumane' border protection arrangements. With thanks also, of course, to Mr Oakeshott and Mr Windsor for facilitating Ms Gillard's victory in the lastt election.

500N 8th Jun 2013 20:11


Very good point. I am not sure even dying country locations
want an influx of these people.

And as for Julia and the "Howard's 'inhumane'", seems the whole country voted
on it at one time and Howard got back in. It wasn't inhumane, it was protecting
Australia, something she has failed to do.

And as for the RAN and the Patrol boats, as someone confirmed,
everyone thinks they are stuffed already so she leaves us with a
patrol force that needs replacing well before time with no money
to do it.

parabellum 8th Jun 2013 23:43

Saltie - In my post #5769 you will see I suggested that for Tony Abbott to stop the boats I believe all he has to do is insist that all arrivals carry their paperwork and any that don't, who have managed to get here by other countries that certainly do require paper work, (Malaysia, Indonesia etc.), should immediately be shipped off to a UNHCR refugee camp where they can join the queue, there are camps in Kenya, Sudan, Pakistan etc.

Two major points of irritation for the tax paying population of Australia are the fact that the majority of the boat arrivals who have no paper work have deliberately got rid of it as they know that to arrive with it would mean they could be properly identified, traced and their true status established. The other point is that even though at least 600 would be asylum seekers got refused entry last year a Tribunal then overturned the decision on appeal, of at least 500, without any new evidence but under pressure from various libertarian groups.

500N 8th Jun 2013 23:51

Who funds the do gooder lawyers for these appeals ?

Our Gov't ?

CoodaShooda 9th Jun 2013 00:04

Not the gummint, 500N; the taxpayer.

See Barry Cassidy on Insiders this morning proclaiming his belief that Ms Gillard will not lead labor into the election. :ooh:

Didn't seem to generate any disagreement from the panelists. Just a discussion of how quickly her dumping will occur.

Buster Hyman 9th Jun 2013 00:25

Had a dream last night. I was walking & talking with Abbott whilst he was on his way to his office. I was asking some pertinant questions on Gonski & his policies. His answers were a little vague & he eventually wandered off looking for more info...odd.

I think that Gonski was on my mind because my daughters school had asked parents to ask their local member 7 opposing candidate to outline their school funding policies. How odd that I have not received a reply from either of the major parties. (I didn't ask the Greens because if it has nothing to do with saving fish, they're all at sea!)

500N 9th Jun 2013 00:43

Yes, all the signs seem to indicate she will be dumped.

ONE big reason I reckon is that this time, it isn't the media
beating up a story about it and trying to get something to occur,
it just seems to be happening naturally.

Now, will it be Rudd or will it be someone else ?

Either way, I still think they will lose.

parabellum 9th Jun 2013 01:02

I'm surprised that any of them would want to take on the poison chalice. Personally I think Rudd is having a game by hinting, or letting others hint, that he might go for the leadership when all the time he is just preventing anyone else from a serious go, Rudd intends to make Dullard wear their crushing defeat all on her own, revenge served cold! Just my theory!

Andu 9th Jun 2013 01:21

If Barry Cassidy's opinion holds water, "somefink" tells me might be hearing the dulcet tones of the GG's son in law a bit more than we have of late. (If Little Bill gets the nod, we'll be almost up there with North Korea, where the top jobs are all kept in the one family.)

What is it with these Labar leeders and wannabe leeders? Is an inabilidy (sic) to pronounce common, everyday words a requirement?

500N 9th Jun 2013 01:30

I see we now get criticized for the "slow" response to searching
for the AS boat that was overdue with at least 13 dead and 60
still missing.

Interesting how we are informed it is overdue ????

By whom ?

We should just turn round and say that no distress signal has been
seen or heard and fcuk them.

Worrals in the wilds 9th Jun 2013 03:12

IMO Shorten would be mad to touch the leadership with a barge pole at the moment. Far better to wait for the dust to settle, then become the leader of the opposition who leads Labor out of the wilderness.

I see we now get criticized for the "slow" response to searching
for the AS boat that was overdue with at least 13 dead and 60
still missing.
Who was that from? One of the usual ratbags :bored:? From what it said in the paper several Australian vessels had done all they could to save people. I really people would stop taking such huge risks getting on these criminally organized, unseaworthy boats, particularly when so many of them can't swim. :sad: It's not like the boat owners give a toss; they've already got their money.

boofta 9th Jun 2013 03:25

Albanese will be installed as leader before the election.
He owes all the factions, he is the only Ruddite who kept his
ministry after the last putsch, he will be the suicide leader
to take the fall. Then after the massacre Shorty or Combat will put up
their hand as dream leader for when they are re-elected in 2050
Kevin07 wants his chinese talking job back, Juliar will get a new hairdresser
and life goes on...

SOPS 9th Jun 2013 04:03

I have a feeling that things might start to get interesting
Julia Gillard loses significant support among caucus - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

SOPS 9th Jun 2013 04:22

And further, the BBC has just reported that a second boat has just been spotted in trouble, and vessels are being diverted to assist it. Does the phrase " out of control" come to mind?

sisemen 9th Jun 2013 04:48

Whilst the resurgence of Krudd would, undoubtedly, lift the polls for Labor there is the small matter of the poison that was spouted from his party colleagues during his failed come-back attempts. Those people would have to be shifted to the back benches and they would still be there. I cannot see them keeping schtum about Krudd merely to save their hide. Dullard herself will be a brooding time bomb.

Interesting times.

500N 9th Jun 2013 04:57

I just realised that the Age, SMH etc has far less coverage of AS
now than they have in the past.

Maybe they are just sick of it like everyone else.

500N 9th Jun 2013 06:22

I see an article on Abbott preparing for office.

It is like watching a slow motion train crash.

SOPS 9th Jun 2013 06:49

It might speed up a bit, 500N, if Juliar is dumped/stands down. The new leader of the labor party would not have to stand by the September 14 date and could go to the polls early in the hope of catching the opposition off side.

On another note, I see that Sarah two dads, is demanding we give ASsers, easier access to Australia, to save them the trouble of them getting on a boat.:ugh::ugh:

How safe is Two Dads in the next election?

sisemen 9th Jun 2013 07:20

Hopefully a bit like the latest IMA boat - sunk without trace.

500N 9th Jun 2013 07:21

Not safe at all. Might lose her seat to a Liberal
- and she is not the only Green that might lose.

They may well lose the balance of power.

Also, the SFP is getting more and more into gear
and even if we don't get people in, we are getting
enough numbers that we can cause people to lose
or prefs to go another way.

SOPS 9th Jun 2013 08:36

I think Train Smash is the correct phrase.
Battle of the sexes | Perth Now

Andu 9th Jun 2013 08:59

I look forward to the political demise of Sarah Hansonhyphen with almost as much enthusiasm as I look forward to the political demise of Julia Gillard. If given the choice as to which I'd prefer to see go if was a case of either/or, I'd have to take a moment to consider which one I'd choose.

If SHY does lose her seat, I wish, with all my heart, that ALL the Australian media would come to an agreement NEVER to approach the woman for her always inane in the extreme comments on any topic EVER again.

Faint hope...

sisemen 9th Jun 2013 09:13

From Larry Pickering. The last lines are very interesting.

ONE MAN'S BOAT TRIP TO OZ - The Pickering Post

Esmail is a 22yo Iranian man. His family of four is considered middle class. His father, who works as an engineer for an Iranian oil company, decided to move his family to Australia but first Esmail had to get there using the services of an Indonesian people smuggler. This is how Esmail did it.
Esmailís father had located a phone number in Kabul, Afghanistan. He was told to transfer $US10,000 to an Indonesian bank account and, once received, Esmail was to go by bus to Kabul where he would be met by a Pakistani man who would arrange for his passport and ID.
The cost of the ID would be $US3,000 and Esmail would need another $US4,000 for air fares and $US500 for his own expenses. He must take only a minimum of belongings.
All was arranged.
Esmail was met at the Kabul bus terminal and was taken by car with four other men to Jalalabad, close to the Pakistan border.
There, in a dirty office and along with the other men, Esmail was photographed, given a different birthdate (he didnít understand why until later, but for now he would be 19). His new ID details were sent to Peshawar in Pakistan.
Esmail was then told that he must wait in Jalalabad until his passport was processed.
Ten days later the Pakistani man bundled Esmail and 14 other men of different nationalities into a van and drove over the border to Islamabad in Pakistan where Esmail gave the Pakistani $US4,000 for his airfare.
All the men were left at a staging point while the Pakistani man went to purchase the airfares. Soon the men were being driven to Islamabad airport and they were talking excitedly about the boat trip.
At the airport they were all given their new passports and air tickets and were told they would be landing in Bangkok, Thailand, where they would wait two hours in a transit lounge before flying to Jakarta where they would be met by an Indonesian man. All went as planned.
The first thing the Indonesian man did was collect all the passports. They were told they would be leaving without any ID. (Esmail understood the passports were sent back to the Pakistani forgers for reprocessing using different photographs.)
No-one complained as they were now completely at the mercy of the smugglers.
From Jakarta they were driven south for around four hours to a small coastal town and parked at another staging point where they were told some of them would be leaving the next day. Esmail was one of those who departed in the morning.
The sea trip was uneventful. The cramped boat stank of fumes and the toilets became blocked after a few hours. Fifty or more people, mostly men, took turns at cooking rice and bits of chicken soaked in salty water, much of which finished up overboard as half the occupants were seasick.
Esmail lost count of the days but the boat was soon being escorted to Christmas Island where he was interviewed for two hours and sent to a detention area.
A week later he was flown to Darwin where he was again interviewed, issued with a bridging visa, and flown to Melbourne.
Esmail is now on the Gold Coast, Queensland, sharing a flat with four other bridging visa holders. He has permanent residency and is studying English at school. He cannot work and intends to go to Griffith University next year.
He says he has no interest in Islam but attends a Bundall mosque (only to improve his English he explains). He has applied to have his family accepted under a family reunion provision but believes this may take years, if at all.
Now, I canít say everything Esmail told me is true but one thing is certain, the level of sophistication in people smuggling has grown exponentially since Rudd dismantled our borders.
The route that Esmail took is just one of the many well-oiled ways for an illegal immigrant to get to Australia.
The pre-Abbott rush with the inevitable loss of life is set to continue and, interestingly, it appears that these passports are not chucked overboard as we have been told, but are returned to Pakistan for recycling.
I wonder if our insulated Canberra politicians understand what is really happening out there.

Captain Dart 9th Jun 2013 09:19

ALPBC TV news second item tonight: speculation that Juliar will be asked to resign, Krudd to take over and call an early election (first item about HMAS Taxi searching for illegal immigrants in distress).

Worrals in the wilds 9th Jun 2013 09:25

If SHY does lose her seat, I wish, with all my heart, that ALL the Australian media would come to an agreement NEVER to approach the woman for her always inane in the extreme comments on any topic EVER again.
A prime contender for the National Nuisance award; given to people who should never be allowed to publically wax lyrical on political issues ever again. Former winners include Pauline Hanson, Bob Hawke, Alan Jones, Gina Rinehart and Kevin Rudd; people who the majority of the Australian public would like to just Go Away Quietly. :suspect::} To preserve the democratic process I'm happy to put them all to a vote come September.

SOPS 9th Jun 2013 09:27

If the ALPBC is broadcasting about leadership speculation, something is up, for sure.

Takan Inchovit 9th Jun 2013 09:56

The ALP is going to sink like an asylum seekers boat ... bit of debris and a mess someone else has to clean up.

RJM 9th Jun 2013 10:21

Albanese will be installed as leader before the election.
Boofta, if Albo gets up, he will be easy to knock off. He was spotted exiting a Thai brothel in Sydney a few weeks ago, but the story was not taken up because Chris Pyne has a similar skeleton in his cupboard. But Pynee isn't in the running for leader of his party. I know that of which I speak, btw.

500N 9th Jun 2013 10:30

The GayBeeCee.

What a woeful institution.

I do like that last few lines and the last line,
Ha, we wish.

CoodaShooda 9th Jun 2013 13:22

I've been off casting the bones and reading the entrails again (or, if you prefer, watching prime time tv this evening).

Judging by the number of labor/union ads being shown, the election will be before 14 September.

There's no way they can run crap like that for the next 98 days and not piss off even the rusted on voters. My intelligence has been severely insulted tonight.

Luckily for the rest of you, they were local ads on local issues. I hope you get a better quality of campaigning in your respective necks of the wood.

SOPS 9th Jun 2013 14:05

And I assume we are paying for those ads. Just like the latest search for some IAMs?

Edit IMAs

500N 9th Jun 2013 18:53

AS and the boat that sank.

Report in The Age

"Questions have been asked about the time taken to mount the rescue operation after an air force plane spotted the boat when it was 28 nautical miles north-west of Christmas Island about 5.45pm (AEST) on Wednesday. The boat was carrying about 55 people on deck, mostly men but also a small number of women and children.

When the boat was first spotted it had been stationary but did not appear in distress, he said. It is understood the Australian authorities did not receive a distress call.

Former ambassador Tony Kevin, in calling for a coronial inquiry, said Border Protection Command had taken too long to send a rescue vessel.

Mr Kevin, who writes on safety-at-sea issues, also questioned why the Australian Maritime Safety Authority did not send out a PAN-PAN (Potential Assistance Needed) call until 10am on Friday.

HMAS Warramunga arrived in the area at 1.30am on Thursday but could not find the boat. After searches on Thursday, a plane spotted a submerged hull about 3pm on Friday. When the Warramunga arrived at the location, only pieces of wood and life-jackets could be seen."

You have to wonder about some people.

Boat seen at 5.45pm Wednesday, didn't look in distress.

Navy ship arrives 1.30am Thursday, couldn't find boat.

So we get blamed for not sending out a PAN call and because it sunk,
our response is too slow ????

Some people make my head spin.

500N 9th Jun 2013 19:58


"Boofta, if Albo gets up, he will be easy to knock off. He was spotted exiting a Thai brothel in Sydney a few weeks ago, but the story was not taken up because Chris Pyne has a similar skeleton in his cupboard. But Pynee isn't in the running for leader of his party. I know that of which I speak, btw."

I really don't think most people would care if Albo was coming out of a brothel, because for him to be nailed on that, then the Libs and everyone else would have to be clean - and they aren't.

And frankly, as long as we have a PM who is actually doing something
right and setting the country on the right course for the future, I and probably most others couldn't give a stuff who they bonk after hours.

Worrals in the wilds 9th Jun 2013 21:37

And I assume we are paying for those ads.
The Labor Party ads, probably. I also had to pay for the Libs' pro work choices ads :yuk: so it sort of balances out. I think that if there's one issue that unites the country it's the dislike of taxpayer funded political advertising.

Union ads are paid for by the relevant union, the ACTU or state equivalent.

Andu 9th Jun 2013 22:21

Re the now sunken boat: we'll never know the exact circumstances, but one can't help but wonder if someone on the boat, after seeing the P3 had spotted them, didn't scuttle the boat thinking assistance was just over the horizon.

I think, after the election,that we'll be seeing quite a few capsized, sinking or suddenly seriously disabled boats, the 'problem' occurring just after each boat is spotted by an Australian naval Customs vessel. As I've said before, the Navy needs to stop sinking the asylum seeker boats they've already intercepted and have a half dozen on immediate standby to transfer the country shoppers to so they can be sent straight back from whence they came.

The boats could be re-used by both sides repeatedly, a bit like the passports mentioned in the Pickering article.

On the Pickering article: if the man whose story we read about in that article can be classed as a genuine refugee, (as Australia has done), then so should every man, woman and child who lives anywhere in this world other than lower Manhattan, so logic would dictate that we should immediately dismantle all border protection agencies and declare open borders.

Don't worry. It will be only a short term problem, for within two years, this country will be a carbon copy of the shitholes all these people are trying to escape and they'll stop coming here.

Pity, in the meantime, about the fate of those who were born here or came here legally, but oh, how noble we'll all feel (or at least people like 'SHY' will).

500N 9th Jun 2013 22:35


I think you might be correct about the boat being sunk once they saw
the plane.

Maybe we should line up our warships across the sea just south of Indonesia
and do all the patrols there. Catch the boats, turn them around, send them
back before they even get near us.

parabellum 10th Jun 2013 00:34

So, if Gillard does step down, (certainly hope not), who will replace her, Krudd or Simon Crean or (name of your favourite)? Gillard may lose the numbers but will Krudd get them? I imagine that the caucus is as divided as a jigsaw puzzle right now.

SOPS 10th Jun 2013 03:47

Did anyone else see 60 minutes last night, and Liz Hayes's report?

RJM 10th Jun 2013 04:20

500N, you and I and the worldly chaps here would agree no doubt that the odd visit to the knock shop is no bar to high office, but there are alot of tut-tutting voters out there who'd be put right off. Look at the trouble Tim Mathieson got into for merely suggesting a preference for young Asian ladies in one's choice of proctologist. :rolleyes:

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