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chuboy 3rd Jun 2013 00:44


Originally Posted by sisemen (Post 7873525)
Coincidentally, this arrived in my inbox and I post it here merely as a polemical piece and I offer no other comment....

:yuk:
Incredible. Did Adolf Hitler himself not rise to power on the back of claims that Jews and blacks and gays "threaten the way of life" of the German people?

Are there users here so blinded by prejudice that, even when reading it explicitly, they cannot see the similarities between the examples cited in the extract and the very call-to-arms against the "Islam uprising" which it represents? I would applaud the author for his ever-so-subtle use of irony but I find myself very concerned that it is not deliberate, and perhaps that he hasn't noticed it himself!

What is the answer? Should we be keeping those dirty muzzers in a confined area, isolated from the People, where their disgusting culture cannot pollute our great community? Should we outlaw them completely in the pursuit of a greater society?

I'm sure I'll be called all manner of names for not supporting the witch-hunt against Islam, but the fact is that fanatics are just that, fanatics. The furore over border protection would not exist if our asylum seekers were boatloads of starving Anglo-Saxons, probably Catholic - even though you could just as rightly argue that our country is being inundated with sleazy paedophiles molesting our youngsters, all under the umbrella of an organisation that pays no tax. The hatred for "Gillard" appears to stem significantly from Islamophobia and I need only refer to Larry Pickering's article a few posts up to back that up.

What a load of bollocks that is. Of all the reasons to want the Labor government out, a relative handful of asylum seekers is among the worst of them all. Pensioners, a decent portion of whom have contributed next to nothing to the treasury coffers in their lifetimes, cost the government far more in free healthcare every year than asylum seekers do. We have knuckle-dragging meth addicts who alternate between draining society via the Dept of Human Services (aka Centrelink), the Dept of Health, and the Dept of Corrective Services. We have government mismanagement of such magnitude that noble initiatives like the BER, NBN, et. al. are decried as wasteful.

But no. It's those filthy smelly towelheads on their way here from Indonesia, presumably to tell me that I can't eat bacon with my eggs, that are the reason I'm going to eat shit 'cause I don't like spinach and vote Tony Abbott into power this September.

My only consolation is that these absurd opinions are just that, and furthermore they do not (yet) represent the view of the wider community.

Right, that's me off on my soap box for now :O

Oh wait, one more thing. There needs to be true separation between government and religion. Our society is overwhelmingly secular and yet we still have Christian influences permeating into our law, particularly those that pertain to marriage. Equality is the name of the game. I don't support banning the pursuit of religion, but I absolutely do support getting rid of the use of religion as an excuse for anything.

As far as I'm concerned, you are free to believe whatever nonsense you like but you still have to follow all of our laws, from turning up to vote on a Saturday to removing your headdress when having ID photos taken to paying tax on your earnings that you don't spend charitably. I'm sick and tired of governments around the world pandering to the religious when as a society we really ought to have grown out of the silly fantasies by now. We have sent a robot to Mars, taken high-resolution images of a single atom, doubled our life expectancy, and caused the extinction of thousands of species through the study of science. But we still have loonies around the world, some with a scary degree of influence, who truly believe that, for instance, an American's right to own a firearm is a right given by God himself! :eek:

Enough is enough. Muslim or Christian, Buddhist or Sikh or Scientologist - you don't get any special treatment.

Okay, that's it :ok:

sisemen 3rd Jun 2013 01:03


But we still have loonies around the world,

Okay, that's it
Phew! Thank goodness.

chuboy 3rd Jun 2013 01:27

So sorry to bore you

sisemen 3rd Jun 2013 01:32

Didn't bore me. I find it interesting to see what other people think and I support their right to say what they think no matter how woolly-headed, off-the-wall, blinkered and wrong they are :E

Dark Knight 3rd Jun 2013 02:08


We have government mismanagement of such magnitude that noble initiatives like the BER, NBN, et. al. are decried as wasteful.
I rest my case Your Honour!

chuboy 3rd Jun 2013 02:41

Perhaps you misunderstood my point.

I was not trying to argue that Labor's "bungled projects" don't deserve their reputation. The point that there has been mismanagement to the point where people look back on superficially good ideas, like stimulating construction during the GFC with school infrastructure funding, and associate them with failure - whether they were legitimately failures or not.

The bottom line being surely that this mismanagement is more worthy a contender in the list of "reasons why Labor is shite" than a slight increase in the percentage of immigrants who arrive here on a boat?

500N 3rd Jun 2013 02:44

"operating under the control of Border Protection Command"

Just how much of out small fleet is up there chasing these boats ?

We are going to wear them out (the boats) so fast it isn't funny.

CoodaShooda 3rd Jun 2013 04:19

500N

I posted last week that the local view is the fleet is already rooted. :8

chuboy

I don't doubt that there are some who oppose islamic settlement because they are effectively racist nut jobs.

The greater majority are likely to accept newcomers if they don't cause social disruption and try to impose their narrow worldview onto the rest of us.

As a country, we separate government and the church. This is not acceptable to Islam.

Unless you can guarantee that the newcomers will contribute to this society rather than disrupt and seek to change it, Australians looking at events in Europe, Africa, the Middle East and, more recently, Turkey have reason to be concerned.

500N 3rd Jun 2013 04:28

Cooda

Sorry, missed it.

I remember an article in the media last year about the wear and tear
on the boats and shortening the sea life.

And of course we are broke so can't buy any more !

Andu 3rd Jun 2013 07:12

207 more uninvitees arrived on one boat over the weekend.

chuboy, I'm glad to see someone with a contrary view post his observations here. I think your arguments in comparing the fears of an unreasonably demanding, ever growing Muslim influx into our society with the Nazi attitude to Jews and to our not objecting to Catholics coming here uninvited versus Muslims are facile,(the last point if only because it's been a couple of hundred years since Catholics demanded non-Catholics convert or die), but let's not go there, for I see from reading your long post that we are coming from such diametrically opposed places, we'd never agree.

I can't tell you how much I hope and pray (sorry, couldn't resist adding that last word) that you turn out to be right in having no fears of a growing Muslim population in the West. Speaking as someone who lived for almost 20 years as a 'guest worker' in the Middle East (in a nearly 100% Muslim country), I believe you are totally wrong. No one who has lived all his life in secular Australia can ever hope to understand

(a) the all-pervading part religion plays in a Muslim society, and

(b) probably even more important, the incredible, unable to be overstated pride of the Arab/Muslim male in all things Muslim.

In their minds, they have created great Arab victories - and they seem to actually believe it - from every war they've waged against Israel since 1948.

When the West leaves Afghanistan, (with quite a bit more basis of fact in this case), they will turn that departure into another huge Muslim victory, and the 'they' will include many thousands of young and not so young Muslim men holding Australian citizenship but who do not in any way consider themselves to be Australian. The term 'Australian' or 'Aussie' is a pejorative one to them, the equivalent of what 'spic' or 'wog' once meant to Westerners. After our armies have been 'defeated' (in their minds) by the Taliban (and the Iraqis), they will become even more arrogant and outspoken in demanding that the Australian mainstream change to fit in with what they consider to be the way life should be lived in 'their' Australia - and our stupid damned Left side of politics will fall over themselves in their eagerness to oblige, even offer to make more adjustments to our way of life lest they be seen as racist.

Check out the Halal labels on so much of our food. The Muslims currently make up 1.5% of our population, and our food producers PAY A HEFTY BLOODY FEE to some enterprising Muslim immigrant to have the Halal stamp on they products.

Check out the local Councils which have paid tens of thousands of ratepayers' dollars to erect curtains at their local swimming pool so Muslim women can bathe without being observed by kuffars (that's us) - and of course, we kuffars cannot use the pool on the days allocated to the Muslim ladies.


End of rant. I could go on, but I won't.

sisemen 3rd Jun 2013 08:03

Keep on prodding a sleeping lion and he will eventually wake up - with a temper - with claws and teeth out.

The result will not be pretty.

SOPS 3rd Jun 2013 08:33

Could not agree more Siseman, it's coming and it's going to be ugly.

chuboy 3rd Jun 2013 08:40


Originally Posted by Andu (Post 7874837)
chuboy, I'm glad to see someone with a contrary view post his observations here. I think your arguments in comparing the fears of an unreasonably demanding, ever growing Muslim influx into our society with the Nazi attitude to Jews and to our not objecting to Catholics coming here uninvited versus Muslims are facile,(the last point if only because it's been a couple of hundred years since Catholics demanded non-Catholics convert or die), but let's not go there, for I see from reading your long post that we are coming from such diametrically opposed places, we'd never agree.

I'm glad you appreciated my post.

I will say up front that I cannot reconcile myself with many aspects of Islam. It is misogynistic and backwards in so many respects, and as you say it is intent on 100% observance by all. Though I do recognise as most do that not every Muslim is hell-bent on converting every soul on the planet.

Given that the Muslim influx does not appear to be happening in my neighbourhood I can't comment on it, but it remains my view that no institution should be forced to change their ways based on the demands of any particular religion or body of religions. Rightly, users here take offence that so-called "political correctness" has enforced parts of Muslim culture on their own. I too have a problem with that. Perhaps the difference is I would be equally offended if other religious institutions were to do the same?

All I'm trying to say in a nutshell: no special treatment for religion. Surely we can agree on that?

The other point about asylum seekers was probably a little muddy. What I meant was... cut the bullsh*t. If the problem with asylum seekers is really a problem with Muslims coming to the country and making demands about other people's business, then just say that. After all most of the Muslims in this country did not arrive on a boat.

Andu 3rd Jun 2013 09:05

chuboy, I think if 40,000 Paddies (Catholics?) had turned up uninvited on our shores over a three year period and the vast majority of them had latched onto our welfare system there would be just as much outrage from the mainstream population. The big difference would be, in my opinion, that because their skin colour is paler than ours, political correctness would permit us to complain. We would even be allowed to describe any of them who were larger than the norm as apes and get away with it.

Buster Hyman 3rd Jun 2013 10:33

Now, is that the traditional meaning of 'mysogynist', or the Gillardesque, McQuarie New Speak version?

Captain Sand Dune 3rd Jun 2013 11:53

Chuboy,
I think you make a good point. Now I for one am uneasy about Muslim influence on our culture. Having spent a total of 7 ˝ years in Muslim countries and I flatter myself I know what I’m talking about. However I just cannot believe that ALL Muslims are nutters. We must not make the mistake of judging all Muslims by the actions of a few.
So what is the answer? Well in my opinion it comes down to the rule of law and the will to enforce it. I believe most Western countries no longer have the gumption to enforce their laws. The huggy fluffy, slap on the wrist, now, now you’ve been a naughty boy don’t do it again approach has failed us. Although our police do their level best to track down the crims, our judiciary are in the main are not enforcing the law to the level the community expect. That’s why we see a revolving door of criminals going through our jails only to re-offend.
I’m not advocating we go back to the bad ol’ days of throwing people in jail for life for stealing a loaf of bread, however a correction is long overdue. The punishments are not fitting the crimes.
So how does this work with our illegal immigrants? A good start would be to re-introduce the Howard immigration policies. Secondly, anyone convicted of terrorism offences should be immediately deported in the case of non-Australian citizens or a life sentence in the case of Australian citizens. And that’s life; not 25 years and then parole.
Another example is assault by drunken yobbos. How about 2 years for the first offence, 5 years for the second, 10 years for the third etc? No parole. There are many other examples.
Would our prisons fill up? Quite probably, but so what? Good incentive to stay out of prison in my opinion!

Buster Hyman 3rd Jun 2013 12:19

Capt. Sandy. Fully agree. Lenient sentencing & tip toeing for fear of offending (and I'm not specifically talking about Muslims here), is making our justice system a joke.

Why is there so much road rage? Why are there so many deadly fist fights? Stabbings, assault, "racism"...I think some of it stems from the fact that everyday people see things they believe is not right, and are frustrated that the Police, and/or the Courts are not enforcing laws properly. Don't get me wrong, I feel for the Police, especially when they see all their investigative work reduced to nothing when some clever dick Lawyer gets a lenient sentence for their client.

Everyone has seen that road rage video & we all saw the guy get a pathetic slap on the wrist, whilst the victim's life has fallen apart (according to him). He might try the same BS on someone else who may decide to take matters into their own hand & just run him over when he leaps out of his car...who knows. Worst case scenario? Probably, but there's enough simmering anger out there tha, somehow, Pollies & Judges don't seem to understand.

Captain Sand Dune 3rd Jun 2013 12:29

Which is why I'm surprised we haven't seen vigilantism in this country yet, or people arming themselves.
Anyone know where I can get a cheap 9mm?:E

7x7 3rd Jun 2013 12:49


or people arming themselves
Some of us already are. Unfortunately, they've got names like Ahmed and Bilal and they're importing those guns by taking up suburban post office franchises.

Captain Sand Dune 3rd Jun 2013 21:59

Poor ol’ Virginia La Trioli on ALPBC24 this morning had to report through gritted teeth that the latest Fairfax poll showed that Lairbour would be thrashed at the next election. Well, duh!:rolleyes: Even showed a piece from the left wing mouthpiece Phillip Adams saying that Juliar should go for the sake of his beloved Pardy.
However to assuage themselves they immediately “reported” that since the Coalition have been polling well, TA hasn’t been seen around his electorate of Moreton. Cue to the Layba member for Moreton Graham Perret who went on to say that “the mood on the ground is positive” despite the polls. Of course no opportunity for a Coalition reply – this is the ALPBC after all.
Delusion being spread by the delusional.

500N 3rd Jun 2013 22:21

7x7

"Some of us already are. Unfortunately, they've got names like Ahmed and Bilal and they're importing those guns by taking up suburban post office franchises."

:D:D:D:D:D

Very good indeed.

While the Gov't cracks down on LAFO', the rest of the Gov't is blind
to what has been going on with illegal imports or doing very little
to top it !

A bit like the Asylum Seekers :O

Worrals in the wilds 4th Jun 2013 01:38


Well, duh!:rolleyes: Even showed a piece from the left wing mouthpiece Phillip Adams saying that Juliar should go for the sake of his beloved Pardy.
He's not the first. The last few years have highlighted the incompetence and rampant narcissism of Rudd, Swan and Gillard. Until the party gets rid of all three of them it won't go anywhere federally.

So what is the answer? Well in my opinion it comes down to the rule of law and the will to enforce it. I believe most Western countries no longer have the gumption to enforce their laws.
Absolutely :ok:. That's why you can safely walk around most of Singapore (or even Hong Kong) at night, but not Brisbane's Fortitude Valley. They lock violent yobbos up. We used to do it here; two decades or so ago when I started drinking we lived in fear of the Drunk Tank, aka Brisbane City Watchouse. If you were obviously drunk in public and making a scene, you ended up there for the night. Great incentive not to make a scene.

They stopped doing it in about the early 2000s when Queensland Police went huggy fluff, and the streets on Friday/Saturday nights have been getting more feral ever since.

sisemen 4th Jun 2013 02:41

And here's me thinking that Brizzie was a couth town!

500N 4th Jun 2013 02:59

"And here's me thinking that Brizzie was a couth town!"

It is.

Worrals was being very specific, Brisbane's Fortitude Valley
might be located in Brisbane but it is a world away from the rest of it !

Just my HO

Worrals in the wilds 4th Jun 2013 04:12


And here's me thinking that Brizzie was a couth town!
It probably depends on who you're hanging out with and where you are. :E:} Some of the big south side pubs can also get quite rowdy.

Andu 4th Jun 2013 06:19

Back in Joh's day, the Valley's sleaze factor was way up there with Pat Pong Road at its worst, the only difference being the birds in the Valley sleaze shows were quite a bit sleazier and rougher than the lurverly ladies and ladyboys of PPR.

The first (and only) time I encountered it, I was quite taken aback. I mean,man, it was SLEAZY. I've been back once quite recently, and I thought it was almost gentrified compared to the Joh days. (Although I must admit, I'd retired from the streets relatively early in the night. Can't - and don't want to be in a position to - comment on what it's like after midnight.)

500N 4th Jun 2013 06:24

Andu

Even though like you I haven't seen it late at night,
you can tell it is a lot more "gentrified" that what it
was, even during the day. For a start less druggo's
around.

7x7 4th Jun 2013 06:33

I find this rumour very easy to believe.

http://bl*gs.news.com.au/heraldsun/a...lrd_to_resign/


Julie Bishop to Julia Gillard in Question Time:
Can she confirm media reports that Bob Carr asked her to step down for the good of the party?

Gillard:

Reports are “entirely untrue”.

Remember when Carr denied plotting against Gillard - a claim Canberra journalists treated as a complete lie? Not sure this latest claim is true, but am sure Carr’s previous denials were not.

UPDATE

Another rumour of the Gillard Government looking after its mates - while stacking the judiciary. A political insider writes:

For what it is worth there is a rumour circulating around the Victorian Bar that the government is going to appoint Nicola Roxon to the Federal Court.

I would be appalled if that were true. I trust it is not.
Nicola Roxon to the Federal Court? What as, a bloody file clerk? That's all the damned experience of the law she's ever had. If they do this, it would be (yet another) travesty.

500N 4th Jun 2013 06:41

Roxon

Jesus, I hope that is a joke.

I know AG's have often become QC's / Judges etc
but at least they had some umph behind them.

As you said, she doesn't.

Dark Knight 4th Jun 2013 07:20

Oh; I don't know.

It is said a certain Short William was apparently known to deliver the shaft from time to time possibly from said angle?

Could that be considered `umph'

500N 4th Jun 2013 07:22

Of a different kind, yes :O

Ken Borough 4th Jun 2013 08:24

I'm not here to defend Nicola Roxon or any other pollie for that matter but any criticism of her being possibly appointed to the Bench is I think ill-founded and probably based on ignorance. She graduated in Arts and Law with honors from the University of Melbourne and was for a time an Associate to a Justice of the High Court of Australia. For the uninformed, Associates do a lot of research that goes into written judgements, and also play a fair hand in their writing. She then spent time as an industrial lawyer before her foray into politics. Her time as A-G was well regarded with some of her legislation being copied around the world.

Just wait until Brandis is A-G and watch the balance of his appointments. Look also at Ruddock's term as A-G to see just how good Roxon was!

sisemen 4th Jun 2013 08:49


Her time as A-G was well regarded
By who FFS? (Apart from Labor apparatchiks)

CoodaShooda 4th Jun 2013 09:06

Which legislation would that be, Ken?

Ken Borough 4th Jun 2013 09:39

Cooda,

Many countries are introducing plain-packet cigarette leglisation. It appears that Westminster chickened-out on the basis of some reportedly skewered advice from an Australian 'adviser'. DC said he was concerned that the legislation would have an adverse impact on the packaging industry. Never mind the fate of the thousands each year who die from lung cancer or other smoking related diseases!

CoodaShooda 4th Jun 2013 10:50

With respect, Ken, NR was at the end of a process that goes back to the late 1980's and had been under consideration in other countries prior to our involvement.

She also had bipartisan support for the legislation.

You can applaud her role in presenting the legislation but she was hardly the ground breaker.

7x7 4th Jun 2013 11:13

I watched the second episode of the ABC's 'Whitlam' last night. I thought the first episode was quite watchable. A little skewed to the Left, (but then again, what else could you expect, it was the ALPBC after all).

The second episode was in another class altogether. It was so incredibly skewed to the Left, it was almost off the page. A succession of Leftie luvvies spruiking the "Gough was God" line it was almost unwatchable. I couldn't help but be reminded of the current government as we heard of Whitlam introducing a succession of incredibly expensive "visionary" programmes WITH NO MONEY AVAILABLE TO PAY FOR THEM!!!

Sound familiar?

For someone who was there, it was what they didn't mention in the second episode that stood out. Like the unassailable FACT that after the dismissal by Kerr, despite the demos of the Pardee faithful shown in the show, the electorate convincingly sacked the man. The fact is, by 1975, he stunk to high heaven as a leader, and until the advent of Rudd, (and then Gillard), he was without doubt, the worst prime minister this country ever had.

I can't help but feel that thirty to forty years from now, the ALPBC of the day will come out with an equally self-serving and one-eyed "history" of the Gillard prime ministership and there will be people like me who will watch it knowing that is the crock that the second episode of the Whitlam "history" was.

They say history is written by the winners. In Australia, the land down under, we seem to do it upside down. The losers write the history and declare that "we wuz robbed" - and they'll surely do it again with Gillard.

Ken Borough 4th Jun 2013 11:17

CS

I have an imperfect memory but something tells me that NR as Health Minister successfully challenged the tobacco peddlars before she became A-G. The fact that a lot of work had been done over the years or the fact that the proposal had bipartisan support is really irrelevant. She had carriage of the Bill through the Parliament, and successfully saw it in our enacted law.

Buster Hyman 4th Jun 2013 12:10

Sweet Jesus! Plain packaging on cigarettes qualifies as "well regarded"? :ugh:

500N 4th Jun 2013 12:16

Ken

2 years in each of those positions. That's not a lot of time.

And a year and a bit as AG ? Even less time.


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