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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Andu 28th May 2013 01:05

WitW, according to AM, the main problem seems to be that the hacked plans include the location and all the server details of the building's highly secure comm. system. One would assume that info like that in the right/wrong hands, would make life considerably easier for those with bad intentions to make good those bad intentions.

Reminds me of the time they installed a new intercom. system (at great expense) in Russell Offices (HQ of the Defence Dept) back in the early 1970s. After all the money had been spent, (and it was a huge amount of money), they discovered that anyone in any office could listen in to what was going on in any other office. The system had to be "de-powered" (for want of a better word) and all that was left was a mass/mess of useless wire cluttering up the dust collecting area under each and every desk. And the bill for installing the useless system to be paid.

They don't call the American eagle monument that stands outside Russell Offices 'Phallus in Blunderland' for no reason.

Worrals in the wilds 28th May 2013 01:50

Awesome :\. IIRC, many years ago it was ASIO who bought a zillion dollar retina scanning access control system, only to find out that some fifteen year old in the US had already hacked a similar system over there. At least it didn't involve second hand eyeballs...:yuk:

Re the servers, fair point but it sounds like someone already knows where to look. I just think that D Notices and media blackouts are completely obselete in the internet era, and the Minister would know this. Telling the ABC not to discuss it is as pointless as trying to hold back a waterfall with a chux.

Buster Hyman 28th May 2013 02:59

Their PC's will probably be Chinese kit anyway, so what's the big deal! ;)

owen meaney 28th May 2013 03:12

Change topic:
A mixed race man like me that I agree with
type b l o g spot no spaces instead of ******

In a previous post you wrote that neither of your children are disadvantaged “simply because they have an Aboriginal father” and that they do not fit the ‘stereotypes’ associated with Aboriginal kids in central Australia. However, would you agree this does not make them any less Aboriginal? They are still entitled to be proud of their heritage.

Worrals in the wilds 28th May 2013 05:34

Owen, that's an excellent article. :ok: The 'you're a victim' message that comes from too many white academics and government types is doing no good at all. It just re-enforces the myth that Indigenous = bad.

7x7 28th May 2013 09:26

You couldn't make this up
Tim Blair
Tuesday, May 28, 2013 (2:38pm)

What might Sarah Hanson-Young do if she’s voted out in September?
“I’d like to be a racing car driver,” she says. “We need to make ‘green’ cars sexy, and the best way to do that is to get them on the racing circuit.”

I glance at her to see if she is joking.

“I mean, it’s a dream, isn’t it?” she continues. “But maybe someone will go, ‘Yeah, she’s not in politics any more. Let’s put her behind the wheel.’”
In Hanson-Young’s case, we need a new, non-carbon term to replace “petrol head”.

Fliegenmong 28th May 2013 09:36

"Yesterday the government denied there was any connection between the September poll and the spike in boat arrivals, with a spokesman for Immigration Minister Brendan O'Connor saying there was "no evidence globally" that elections affected the behaviour of smugglers. "There's no reason to believe that people smugglers think the Coalition's policies will be bad for business".

Which is kind of the answer I was trying to get from someone several pages back......how soon do all these boats stop after the election??

Say there are a few on their way on around the election date, stragglers, whatever, when does the news filter back to a bomb riddled hell hole somewhere in Iraq or Sri Lanka or wherever, and how long does it then take them to comprehend the Coalitions new immigration policy, assuming it takes time to translate it etc... :confused:

david1300 28th May 2013 09:45

@fliegs - my best guess is 12 to 18 months. In practical terms, policy has to be turned into legislation, which then has to be drafted, debated and passed. Then the effect of this legislation has to be communicated all the way through the system. But until the policy/legislation cycle is complete, the damage done by the current policy will continue in full force and effect, and probably increase before the tide is turned.

Fliegenmong 28th May 2013 10:11

Dave, the very first boat after Saturday 24 November 2007 was a direct result of the election outcome, I was reliably informed by many JBers of that apparent fact right here. Even citizens of foreign lands politely informed me of the same.

The Red Witches abhorrent alliance with the horrendous greens has no doubt worsened the problem over time....

But in fairness, the boat issue should resolve very quickly, if what was spouted back in 2007 was correct.....in that even in Parras post-

"Yesterday the government denied there was any connection between the September poll and the spike in boat arrivals"

Would seem to indicate that things would expect to change rather quicker....

It's probably boils down to a 'having your cake and eating too' situation I suppose

dat581 28th May 2013 10:49

With Tony Abbott making quite a few diplomatic trips to Indonesia in the last year or so I think the boat problem may be solved very quickly after September 14th. If the right people in the Indonesian government are paid off I suspect the country shoppers will be stopped at the airport in Jakarta and sent packing. Spending a billion or two in bribes is far cheaper than dealing with the problem once they reach our shores and have access to the legal system.

Can't wait to see the gravy train for the human rights lawyers dry up but i'm sure they will find some other way of screwing the taxpayer of a few $$$$.

Buster Hyman 28th May 2013 11:47

how soon do all these boats stop after the election??
Probably won't. The difference being that we should have a better system in place to send them back. At the very least, Tony won't need to pander to the Watermelons like Jools has.

The smuggler network is firmly entrenched as a money spinner both here & OS. It'll the Mother of all uphill battles undoing this damage to our border protection integrity.

7x7 28th May 2013 12:30

What's the world coming to? I find myself agreeing with Rob Oakeshott, who has leaked the bi-partisan plan by the two major parties to assign $1.00 to the Party for every vote they receive.

Fliegenmong 28th May 2013 13:25

"It'll the Mother of all uphill battles undoing this damage to our border protection integrity."

No it will not be at all!! Clearly these country shoppers are intimately familiar with Labor / Coalition immigration laws, posters here have already told me that

Every boat after 24 nov 2007 rightly or wrongly was attributed to a change in government....it would then stand to reason that a change of government would see a similar instantaneous decrease...give or take a few on the high seas already come election time

But now come the excuses

"It'll the Mother of all uphill battles undoing this damage to our border protection integrity."

And right there ladies and gentlemen is your excuse for ongoing Coalition inability to fix the problem...

In fairness, given the first boat to arrive after the 2007 election was the Labor parties fault, the coalitions first boat arrival should be fairly slated to the coalition

But instead we get.....

"It'll the Mother of all uphill battles undoing this damage to our border protection integrity."

And it will be used for how long?? A year?, 2 years?...3 Years?

Following the coalition formula that the day after an election, people smugglers change their modus operandi.....it is reasonable to expect that after the election in September the people smugglers again change their modus operandi?

"It'll the Mother of all uphill battles undoing this damage to our border protection integrity."

You know you can only use this excuse for so long......at some point the coalition have to take ownership.......I expect that in the first three years they will not take ownership, and a compliant MSM will not push the question..........See Casa here......:hmm:

Buster Hyman 28th May 2013 22:53

Funny post Fleigs...keep it up.

Difference, that you seem to forget, and don't feel bad, selective memory is an ALP institution, the simple fact is that we can EASILY attribute boats after 24 Nov 2007 to your paragon of virtue is because there were virtually none arriving before that date. Lets not forget how quickly he unraveled a working system. 140 country shoppers from 2001-2006 inclusive, 148 in 2007, 161 in 2008, 2726 in 2009, 6555 in 2010, 4565 in 2011, etc, etc, etc

Excuse? Sure, why not. Its what all Aussie Pollies do. Just like you blame Howard for all your angst...just another excuse. So tell me, when do YOU think that undoing the damage excuse will reach its use by date?

Oh, and quoting someone four times doesn't emphasise your point. :rolleyes:


parabellum 29th May 2013 00:56

If Abbott insists that, as of 15 September, all arrivals must have bona fide travel documents or be returned to Indonesia/Sri Lanka without as much as an interview I think the boats would dry up pretty quickly, better still send them straight to a UNHCR camp in the Sudan and let them wait their turn there.

Andu 29th May 2013 02:41

Abbott's showing disturbing signs of being another Malcolm Fraser, a 'Labor Lite'.
I really hope he proves me wrong.

Re the boats: he'll have to do something really radical to stop them, something that sends an unmistakable signal to the country shoppers.

Any such message, to be effective, will need to be up there with Enoch Powell's '(in)famous 'Rivers of Blood' speech in shock value - and just as happened to Powell, the media and the UN will pillory him for it, whatever it is. I don't know if he has the balls to do any such thing. The only certainly is that the people smugglers (and their clients) will call definitely call his bluff.

Whether he blinks remains to be seen.

CoodaShooda 29th May 2013 03:00

One of the rumours going around is that almost all of our patrol boats are now ready for the scrap heap, beyond economic repair. Figure I heard was only one of fourteen up here remains viable into the future.

So he may not have the capability to send the boats back until they get Defence spending back to a reasonable level.

Which would mean plenty of opportunity for air charter operators on the "sail in - fly out" run mentioned by parabellum.

Might have to see if I can get a gig with Serco as a Transport & Escort guy. They're currently bringing home $200K+/year and it's a growth industry. :E

Meanwhile, what're the odds the libs will vote down the "Cash for Votes" legislation when it comes up? Labor's saying they have agreement. The libs are saying they're waiting to see the legislation. The voters are saying ":mad: the lot of you".

If the libs take the money, they've lost any chance of getting my vote.

Andu 29th May 2013 03:35

I'm with you, cooda. I'm in a seat that, even if there's a veritable landslide against Labor, they'll almost certainly retain the seat, even with the *** hopeless individual who's our local member. If the Libs pass this 'cash (to the parties) for a vote' bill, I think I won't be the only one who'll decide (for the first time in my life) to vote informal in protest. So if the Libs might have had a slim chance of removing a deeply-entrenched Labor diehard, they'll blow it, because this has really upset a few people who live around me (and who I know are not Labor voters).

Bloody Libs, yet again, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Buster Hyman 29th May 2013 05:25

Haven't heard of this 'cash for votes' stuff, but I think we're far enough removed to not accept the American system. Lobby groups are fine if all they are doing is arguing the point & not paying for it...IMHO. Need to read up on it.

I wonder if it includes donations from Unions? :confused:

gupta 29th May 2013 06:20

And another one's going - Martin Ferguson (Mar'n Ferg'n to all) won't be standing on Sep 14

Shame really, I always thought he was one of the more genuine ones

Clare Prop 29th May 2013 08:01

If ever I feel inclined to feel a bit of respect for a Labor politician, I just remind myself that each and every one of them has had the opportunity to save this country from Gillard by jumping ship, every single one of them would have voted for Roxon and Conroy's abhorrent legislation and every single one of them would vote for it again if they had the chance.

Since growing up in the UK under Harold Wilson's regime, I will never ever have anything but the deepest contempt and distrust for Labour politicians. Martin Ferguson might have had a better public image than many but he is just another Labor politician who has backed everything Gillard has done. :mad::mad:

Fliegenmong 29th May 2013 08:18

I upset you don't I buster? .... sorry

Captain Sand Dune 29th May 2013 08:32

Smart enough to read the writing on the wall.

Fliegenmong 29th May 2013 08:40

Cash for votes? Here, from the Murdochracy

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

Nothing to do with Unions.....just taking it straight from the taxpayer BH

The odds of the Libs voting down???, ask Tommy Waterhouse.....but I reckon already know the answer to that :E

Boats? I think I'm pretty clear there...according to previous logic they should stop really quick...but you know, there is always the excuse..

"It'll the Mother of all uphill battles undoing this damage to our border protection integrity."....excuse :rolleyes: if they don't stop straight away, so bases covered then.

On a positive note, I don't really think the middle class welfare / Upper Class charity that is the paid maternity leave will go ahead.....need hardly tell you the excuse for that one

Similarly the Carbon Tax will remain.........same excuse again I reckon

They'll be 'non core'....or as the current bunch of @rse clowns up here in QLD are telling us, their broken promises were not...ready for this......not 'Enshrined' policies........:D...expect that may get some air time after September

Buster Hyman 29th May 2013 09:30

You should go into politics Fleigs...lots of words, no actual answer! :p

And no, you don't upset me. We've missed your 'logic' on this thread...much better than the pure vitriol spouted by some. :ok:

Takan Inchovit 29th May 2013 10:11

I'd be happy to pay for Jules pension if she retired; small price for common sense.

Fliegenmong 29th May 2013 10:17

You should go into politics Fleigs...lots of words, no actual answer!

Ha ha.... I'm way to bound by my conscious to be so morally and ethically bankrupt as to enter politics!! ..... I'd be eaten alive!!

If by 'missed' you mean I haven't been around for a while, yeah., I only drop in every so often..........and then I don't ever read back over pages missed, it's all predictable enough....I just try to bring some other points of view to the observation (i.e. this thread) from time to time....a bit of balance if you will :ok:

Buster Hyman 29th May 2013 10:47

If by 'missed' you mean I haven't been around for a while, yeah., I only drop in every so often..........and then I don't ever read back over pages missed, it's all predictable enough....I just try to bring some other points of view to the observation (i.e. this thread) from time to time....a bit of balance if you will
And I don't blame you. There was certainly a 'weight of numbers' issue with how the thread was going. Probably attributable to the Governments performance. Come the change, if that is the case, I'm sure your numbers will swell again! ;):p:ok:

Fliegenmong 29th May 2013 11:10

"Probably attributable to the Governments performance"

Without doubt!!!, and deservedly so!!!

I'm sure your numbers will swell again!

Not sure if 'your' is entirely accurate......but neither of the 2 parties are deserved of my vote, and ever more so should the Bipartisan cash for votes come to pass.....what I find really sad about it is colleagues have no idea, and I've head them say things like 'Oh well might as well vote the greens' WTF!?!?!

WHY!!! WHY Vote the Greens.... :{:{...it rams home how entirely ignorant...and therefore dangerous the young and naive are 'labor' follies suck them in as equally as Liberal follies do... :{

Anyway, off to bed, I need get up early to go to work in order to be ostracised as a hard working white Australian tax paying Male......the illegal boat arrivals are depending on me, as are the Eastern Suburbs Harbour Side dwelling Pollies! :yuk: :rolleyes:

Buster Hyman 29th May 2013 11:29

Neither two parties....well, can't think of a good argument against that. Get some sleep & pay those taxes mate!

7x7 29th May 2013 12:01

Have I got this right? If I vote first for someone who'll obviously never win the seat, he/she will get the money and the main party I tick as #2 will get my preference.

Looks like the Mad Hatter's Party is going to get a shed load of votes - and a few dollars.

Worrals in the wilds 29th May 2013 12:24

And I don't blame you. There was certainly a 'weight of numbers' issue with how the thread was going. Probably attributable to the Government's performance.
I reckon. However, I'm getting very sick of big corporate Australia's slobbering and rubbing of hands at the certain prospect of a change. The Libs are dressing a lot of it up as 'helping small business', which is a goal we all identify with. IMO the actuality will be more about helping big business shareholders (ie the super companies) get even more filthy rich than they are already.

sisemen 29th May 2013 15:31

I find it fascinating to see that, of late, the emphasis of this thread has shifted from criticism of the shower of scheissen that current call themselves the government to criticism and observation of the shower that everyone assumes will take their place.

This must mean that the writing is well and truly on the wall for Dullard :D and that all Australia is doing at the moment is marking time.

Andu 29th May 2013 22:19

Just saw the following comment on the US Politics Hamster Wheel (thank you, con-pilot):

But then again, when you have 120% of all registered voters turning out in many districts to vote and 100% of all those votes go to Obama, not much one can do about that. I have forgotten just how many districts had 100% voter turnout, all 100% voting for Obama. Just to think, not one person in those districts were sick, in hospital, in jail and all in town.

Simply amazing.
The shape of things to come in Oz on Sept 14th?

Andu 29th May 2013 22:34

No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au

THE message from the young men was blunt: "You're not in Australia now."

They weren't standing on a street in Iraq, Afghanistan or Lebanon. This is Bankstown.

It is a safe suburban street surrounded by family homes but there are fears areas just like this are in danger of being turned into ghettos by young men - usually born in Australia to Lebanese parents - who are cannon fodder for hardline Muslim preachers. They are part of generation jihad.

A recent two-year federal parliamentary inquiry into multiculturalism was swamped by concerns about the rising influence of Islam in Australia and fears that organisations such as Hizb ut-Tahrir and conservative imams were "promoting the radicalisation of second-generation Muslim youth and voluntary social exclusion".

"This was thought to support the formation of Muslim-only enclaves, leading to long-term problems such as unemployment," said the report, released in March.





An Islamic women's group told of the influence of alarming conservatism that was even demanding gender segregation at weddings "within parts of the Lebanese community in Sydney".

The same characters and organisations keep popping up to attract young acolytes.

Like the radical political Islamic group Hizb ut-Tahrir, Sheik Feiz Mohammed, the Global Islamic Youth Centre at Liverpool, Auburn's Bukhari House Bookshop and prayer hall, of which Feiz Mohammed is a director.

Head of the Middle Eastern Crime Squad, Detective Superintendent Deborah Wallace, said even convicted murderer Bassam Hamzy, founder of the Muslim gang Brothers for Life, had achieved an almost mythical status from behind bars.

So far intelligence agencies have stayed one step ahead of the terrorism threat.

Milad bin Ahmad-Shah al-Ahmadzai, 23, has been under surveillance by counter-terrorism police since he was 19 and this week was arrested for allegedly threatening to "slit the throat" of an officer, a court heard on Tuesday.

Al-Ahmadzai, Sydney born and bred although he has identified himself as "ethnic Pashtun from Afghanistan", has also previously been pinpointed as a threat to soldiers on Australian soil.

Community leaders talk about how the young people are not just influenced by what's happening locally but what is happening overseas.

ASIO director-general David Irvine has warned of a dramatic increase in the number of young ethnic men travelling to take part in the Syrian war. "We are talking in the hundreds and not the tens," Mr Irvine has said.

Community leader Dr Jamal Rifi has seen them come back.

"When they come back they are radicalised," Dr Rifi said. "They look on people with a high moral ground, 'I went there and I fought for these causes, blah blah blah'."

The Syrian conflict has spilled over into violence in Bankstown where a gang of Sunni Muslim men have been accused of extorting businesses owned by Shia men in retaliation for the Shia supporting Syrian president Bashar al-Assad.

Hizb ut-Tahrir's Australian leader recently called on the country to become an Islamic state ruled by Islamic law and for a boycott of Anzac Day.

Spokesman Uthman Badar, 28, denied the movement was extreme and said the Muslim community was being demonised in Australia.

"There is a ridiculous amount of surveillance by ASIO and tapping of phones. You are further alienating these people," Mr Badar said yesterday. In Islamic book stores, in cafes across western and southwestern Sydney and in each other's homes, these are the sorts of "leaders" looked up to by the disaffected young men as they talk about how badly life treats Muslims.

Add unemployment to the mix.
And they continue to arrive daily by the boatload... and Labor and the Greens are suggesting we should save them the boat ride and go straight to the source and fetch them by aeroplane.

Stand by for the announcement of Australia accepting hundreds if not thousands of refugees from Syria.

Worrals in the wilds 30th May 2013 01:10

"There is a ridiculous amount of surveillance by ASIO and tapping of phones. You are further alienating these people," Mr Badar said yesterday.
Why? How do they know about it? :suspect::}
Seriously, I wouldn't mind a bit if some or all of these hardline troublemakers just...disappeared. It would have happened forty years ago, but coppers aren't what they were. In many ways that's a good thing, but not all.

sisemen 30th May 2013 01:25

As the quote said...the problem doesn't seem as much to do with the current wave of "refugees" who are, in the main, from Iran (and generally educated and 'middle class' Iranians wanting to get away from radicalism), but has more to do with the Lebos. That problem will be exacerbated when the Syrian refo's arrive.

Pinky the pilot 30th May 2013 04:56

And the Libs have decided not to support the grab for extra cash for votes bill after all, after initially indicating support for it.

Amazing how quickly some pollies can sense outrage from the general public.:rolleyes:

What really gets to me is that they did not realise in the first place that supporting the increase was a bad move.:ugh:

As for dear old mumbles Mar'n Fers'n; Well, I guess even he can see the looming labor apocalypse and doesn't wish to be associated with any part of the fallout.

parabellum 30th May 2013 05:29

What I liked about Tony Abbott's farewell to Mar'n Fers'n was they way he so obviously drew the distinction between Fers'n, "An honourable adversary", and Gillard.

sisemen 30th May 2013 07:12

Well it certainly looks as though Labor are going to finish their disastrous attempt to govern the country in the manner to which they have become accustomed:

NBN scandal over asbestos reprising the 'pink batts' scandal

Ill-formed legislation over education and NDIS reforms

Budget black holes to beat anything thus far achieved in Australia's history

Unfettered immigration through the almost unguarded back door

Sleazy deals to scam more money from long-suffering taxpayers

Union pressure to ramp up the "457 abuses" (not) as an election issue

In the past, whether you loved them or loathed them, governing parties have at least managed to make a reasonable fist of governing. However, this mob seem to have screwed things up at every crick and turn. And, as clare prop says, whilst the departing brethren are being lauded as they go they all share responsibility for the cock-ups.

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