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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

prospector 17th Sep 2012 02:55

Both sets of MPs have behaved like a posse of 'popular' grade ten bitchy girls with personal attacks, hair pulling and personal remarks about big noses, big butts, religion and lifestyle choices being the political tools of the day.
You have not got those types of MP's just to yourself. Following politics in all the major "Democratic" countries, we all seem to have somehow won this type of politician.

The more "professional" our politicians become the better your description describes them.

Worrals in the wilds 17th Sep 2012 03:37

Tis true. :sad:
I think it's because they are professional politicians, ie people who largely haven't done anything else. If you behaved like that in a normal job you'd either get hauled in front of HR or biffed, depending on the nature of the workplace (or biffed by HR, in a few very special companies :}).

However, in politics these days it's standard operating procedure, because none of them seem to have ever really graduated from uni. When it comes to maturity, knowledge, street smarts and debating skills, too many of them seem to be perennially stuck in first year; storming the admin building, having smoke ins and generally carrying on like immature teenagers. Why? Because that's all they ever did. :mad:

For the most part the ones who dodged uni and went to lick envelopes in political offices, or left school and immediately became 'professional' unionists (now there's a contradiction in terms :uhoh::}) without really passing through the Worker stage first seem to be just as bad. I guess they never picked up any real world skills either :(.

You rarely hear of a pollie these days who's done much except be a pollie. The pollies argue that that's what the media wants (someone who's savvy with the soundbites) but I think that as a group, they've failed to realise just how irritating it is to the electorate. Unfortunately, when they're all the same it becomes like the lizards in Hitchikers' Guide to the Galaxy; you have to vote, otherwise the wrong lizard gets in.

The first of six men charged over the violence appeared in Parramatta Bail Court via videolink on Sunday, and was denied bail due to previous breaches for drink driving.
I didn't think Muslims were supposed to drink, particularly fundo, rock throwing Muslims. :hmm::hmm::hmm:

Politicians slam violent Sydney protest | The Courier-Mail

onetrack 17th Sep 2012 04:53

I didn't think Muslims were supposed to drink, particularly fundo, rock throwing Muslims. :hmm::hmm::hmm:
Its obvious, then - the constant repression of Muslims, and the constant offensive cartoons and films about Mohammad, drove him to drink ... :ok:

He'll be able to plead he's just a misunderstood boy who has come from a deprived childhood. He was deprived of a serious amount of character-building, stoning and beheading of his religions enemies ... :hmm::hmm:

Buster Hyman 17th Sep 2012 05:25

No, his defence will be that he was driven to violence & drink by John Howards policies & he is now a reformed Muslim...straight out of Julia's Newspeak handbook. :yuk:

500N 17th Sep 2012 06:17

It seems some in the Muslim community are pissed off with what was going to occur and forwarded messages to the Police.

And I see that one Muslim said this is not how we preach and words will be said
to the people involved.

So it seems some Muslims do want a peaceful life in Australia.

allan907 17th Sep 2012 06:55

Immigration Minister Chris Bowen has indicated he may cancel the visas of any "non-citizens" charged after the weekend's violent protests in Sydney.

Mr Bowen says he is looking at what options he would have if any "non-citizens" were involved in the protest, but has spoken out strongly against the violence.

"Clearly this is not done in the name of Islam and it is not done in the name of multiculturalism; it's done in the name of thuggery, nothing short of that," he told reporters in Canberra.

"This is just criminal behaviour, nothing short of that."
Hopefully he will have the balls to carry out his threat in the face of the likes of SHY and the lawyers on that particular gravy train.

hoofie 17th Sep 2012 09:31

From the footage I saw on TV of Sydney, the guys doing the shouting and winding the crowd up mainly seemed to be fair-skinned converts with dodgy beards.

On the steps of the MLC building they were at the front of the mob whilst older men who looked like they might have actually been brought up in the faith were busy trying to stop the nutters getting any further.

I would suggest that it is indeed true that the vast majority of muslims want nothing more than to live a peaceful life and raise their families but they are invariably silent as a community whilst those who twist the Quran for their own ends shout the loudest.

Note that in Islams holiest places, Makkah and Madinah, such action as we saw on Saturday would be met by the full force of the local security forces who would just steam in, best everyone senseless and then repeat until the lesson was learned.

RJM 17th Sep 2012 09:58

I've misjudged ABC commentator Waleed Aly. Far from being the token Muslim I took him for, I think his analysis of the current wave of Islamic anger makes a lot of sense. Here's Aly's article from the National Times:

September 17, 2012


Waleed Aly, lecturer in politics at Monash University

Where do I start? Perhaps with the viral image that will come to define this episode: a child who'd be three or four hoisting a sign above his head blaring, ''Behead all those who insult the Prophet''.

Alternatively, I could begin with the observation that the trailer for the anti-Islamic film that ostensibly started this all, Innocence of Muslims, is now a blockbuster, with YouTube hits in the millions thanks largely to the protesters around the world who think nobody should see it.

No. Let's start with the fact so few of the protesters who descended on Sydney's CBD this weekend seem to have seen the film that so offends them. When asked by journalists, they admit this, one even adding she refuses to watch something so offensive. It's almost impressive how cyclical this stupidity is. But it's also instructive. In fact, this is the key to making sense of something so gobsmackingly senseless.

The protesters - at least the ones quoted in news reports - know nothing except how offended they are.

That, you see, is all that matters. This isn't about a film. It's about an excuse. We know because so much of the weekend's ranting was nakedly gratuitous: ''Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell''? Pardon? Which dead? Weren't we talking about a movie?

This is the behaviour of a drunkenly humiliated people: swinging wildly with the hope of landing a blow, any blow.

There's nothing strategic or calculated about this. It doesn't matter that they are the film's most effective publicists.

It doesn't matter that they protest using offensive slogans and signs, while protesting against people's right to offend.

It doesn't matter that they object to insulting people on the basis of their religion, while declaring Christians have no morals. This is only baffling until you realise these protesters are not truly protesting to make a point. The protest is the point.

It feels good. More to the point, it feels powerful. This is why people yell pointlessly or punch walls when frustrated. Outrage and aggression is an intoxicating prospect for the powerless. Accordingly, it is not an option to leave an insult unanswered because that is a sign of weakness.

The irony is that it grants power to those offending. It puts them at the centre of your world.

That's why, when Gallup polled 35 Muslim-majority countries, it found that of all the gripes against the West, among the most pervasive is the West's ''disrespect for Islam''. And it is this disrespect that is the overarching grievance that subsumes others.

Everything can be thrown into this vortex: Swiss minaret bans, French niqab bans, military invasions, drone strikes, racist stereotyping, and yes, even films so ridiculously bad that, left to their own devices, they would simply lampoon themselves.

This is what gives Innocence of Muslims meaning: not its content, but its context.

It's a symbol of contempt. So, ''Obama, Obama, we love Osama'' they scream. Osama, too, is a symbol; the most repugnant one in their arsenal. How better to prove you exist than to say something outrageous?

That the Obama administration immediately condemned the film in the strongest terms doesn't register. Nor that the White House took the extraordinary step of asking Google to pull the video. This is invisible to an audience of humiliated souls waiting to be offended and to conflate every grievance. They need the offence. It gives them the chance to assert themselves. It's a short-cut to self worth.

The trouble is that in our digital world, there is always something to oblige. Anyone can Google their prejudices, and there is always enraging news to share with others. Indeed entire online communities gather around the sharing of offensive material and subsequent communal venting. Soon you have a subculture: a sub-community whose very cohesion is based almost exclusively on shared grievance. Then you have an identity that holds an entirely impoverished position: that to be defiantly angry is to be.

Frankly, Muslims should find that prospect catastrophic. It renders Islamic identity hollow. All pride, all opposition, no substance. ''Like the Incredible Hulk'', observes British Islamic scholar Abdal Hakim Murad: ''ineffectual until provoked''.

Sometimes you need a scandal to demonstrate an underlying disease. And that's the good news here. The vast bulk of Saturday's protesters were peaceful, and Muslim community organisations are lining up to condemn the outbreak of violence.

But now a more serious conversation is needed - one that's more about whether we can speak about anything else.

Worrals in the wilds 17th Sep 2012 10:25

Heck of a good article, which could be applied to a number of permanently outraged people, not just the Muslim version.

500N 17th Sep 2012 10:39

Actually saw a few Muslim's on the news tonight talking a bit of sense
as per my earlier post of what I had read.

I somehow doubt that these people will be able to rain in the violent one's
who I somehow think will do what they want to do anyway.

And why oh why do Command people need to admit they received
the text messages and / or monitor the internet / social media.
No need to give these guys a heads up !

onetrack 17th Sep 2012 12:19

Waleed Aly needs to address the Muslim problem directly, not beat around the bush with politico-speak. More importantly, the following questions need hard answers ...

1. Why has Sydney become the drive-by shooting capital of Australia? Before the Lebanese arrived in Sydney, shootings were sporadic, and confined to a few local thugs, small in numbers.

2. Why has NSW had to introduce a "Middle Eastern Crime Gang Squad", that initially consisted of 280 officers - and which has since been expanded?

3. Why has there been a massive upsurge in car-rebirthing, high-value car theft (mostly via car-jackings), insurance fraud (fabricated accident claims), drug importation (Bekaa Valley heroin in particular), illegal firearms dealing and use, and a general breakdown of law and order in SW Sydney suburbs, since the early 1980's - coinciding with the period shortly after large numbers of Lebanese "refugees" from the Civil War in Lebanon, arrived in Sydney?

4. Why are all of the above, related directly to Lebanese Muslims?

The simple fact is that the wholesale importation of Lebanese Muslims to Australia has resulted in a lowering of standards of behaviour, a major increase in disobeyance of Australian laws - and a massive elevation of the crime rate.

The scenes we witnessed on Saturday are merely an extension of the basic criminality of the Lebanese Muslims of SW Sydney.

The teachings of Islam state that followers are only to obey one Law - the Law of Allah. All man-made Laws are false, an affront to the Law of Allah, and to be disobeyed at every opportunity.

When Waleed Aly addresses this basic failing of Islam to be able to produce a civil, law-abiding society - then maybe he can speak with some authority.

Until that point, he is a classic member of the politico-speak group - producing vast amounts of hot air, without addressing the seat of the problem.

The following article is a article that should be read by every Australian who is concerned about the future of law and order in Australia.

It is all too obvious, that with every increase in the numbers of Islamics in Australian society, so does this increase equate to a equal demise in the numbers of law-abiding members of our society.


500N 17th Sep 2012 12:35

"1. Why has Sydney become the drive-by shooting capital of Australia? Before the Lebanese arrived in Sydney, shootings were sporadic, and confined to a few local thugs, small in numbers."

Because lebos have no class.

Just look at the Melbourne underground, they were killing people / each other left right and centre but it wasn't until they knocked off two with a shotgun in a car with kids in it at a Sunday football match that the Cops really came down hard.

Keep it low, quiet and out of the public view and you'll get less heat,
something the lebos couldn't give an eff about as they think they are
above the law !!!

RJM 17th Sep 2012 12:36

I agree, onetrack, that Aly has described the problem but stopped short of offering a solution. But if he's right and has identified the problem correctly, it's at least a start to resolving the problem, and is a lot more useful than just namecalling or moralising in response.

As to taking or suggesting action to resolve the problem - where would you start? You can't filter every angry Islamic mind through the discipline of a western law course, a process which I suspect hsas given Aly his rational viewpoint.

There's no doubt at all that there is a specific problem wirth Lebanese youth in western Sydney. That issue seems to exist alongside the world-wide Islamic situation and has a lot opf local peculiarities not necessarily shared by the global question of Islamic unrest. Compare Priest's article with the website 'Religion of Peace', for example.

hellsbrink 17th Sep 2012 15:37


It seems some in the Muslim community are pissed off with what was going to occur and forwarded messages to the Police.

And I see that one Muslim said this is not how we preach and words will be said
to the people involved.

So it seems some Muslims do want a peaceful life in Australia.
The problem is that we hear the same platitudes across the world from the "community leaders" yet nothing changes whether it is in Belgium, Oz, UK, France or wherever.

When the "community leaders", and not just in Oz, start frogmarching those involved down to the police station to be arrested and charged, etc, or at least hand over a list of names and addresses, then I'll believe the sincerity.

Until then, it's just words, merely something to calm the natives down before the inevitable backlash.

500N 17th Sep 2012 15:41


Well, we live in hope but I don't think we will ever see them frig marched down to the Police station.

However, I do think we have some moderate / reasonable clerics here,
well at least in Melbourne. The Sydney one's seem to be a bit more
of the fire eater type !!!

They know damn well that this violence is going to cause them long term
damage so it is done for their benefit really.

The violent people will get caught - the cops have good photos of
everyone and it just takes time.

Next time you are near a demo, have a look for the people taking photos
or video of the demo.


hellsbrink 17th Sep 2012 16:14

That is all very well, but the words from the "community leaders" will not stop the same sort of thing happening again.

When they grow a pair and do something that will stop this sort of thing happening, then I'll believe them, especially as the chances of the Government actually rescinding the residency rights of one person involved, and actually extraditing them, are going to be somewhere between zero and sod all.

Worrals in the wilds 17th Sep 2012 19:03

The Sydney one's seem to be a bit more of the fire eater type !!!
It's a Sydney thing. Look at their Greens...:eek::}

That is all very well, but the words from the "community leaders" will not stop the same sort of thing happening again.
Why should we assume that people who turn up in Martin Place wanting to punch on will listen to their community leaders? It's a bit like expecting the drunken bogans who wreak violent havoc in our major cities' 'entertainment' areas every Friday/Saturday night to listen to the multitude of doctors, coppers and community workers who regularly plead for an end to the sensless violence in every newspaper in the country. Said doctors, coppers and community workers are respected, speak from experience, speak for the majority and as such are 'community leaders.' Doesn't mean that the drunken, violent minority ever listen to a thing they say, no matter how many campaigns the Murdoch press choose to run on the subject.

Violent ferals don't care about anything their community leaders have to say, no matter how sensible it may be. By definition, they act outside the boundaries of their community.

The things 'community leaders' say aren't ever going to control the feral minority. That's what the coppers and their dogs are for. What community leaders are there to do is to express what the majority of reasonable members of that particular community believe.

Shameful brawlers could find themselves right out of their league | The Courier-Mail

I don't believe the majority of Australian Muslims condoned the behaviour in Sydney, any more than I believe that the majority of Aussie bogans (of which I am one :\) condone the alcohol fuelled violence that occurs weekly in our major city entertainment precincts, or the violence that has occured at recent junior footy matches. Yesterday I heard of a ten year old rugby league player doing well for his team threatened by a parent from the opposing team; 'if you score one more try I'm gonna smash you'. The kid refused to return to the field and threw up from the stress. Tell me Aussie PPRuNers, do you condone this? Can you stop this behaviour? Aren't you community leaders? Then stop it :mad:. Oh, you can't? Guess it's not as simple as it sounds. :hmm:

In these cases the 'community leaders' express the reasonable majority's view quite eloquently, but it doesn't mean that they can stop the violent, antisocial actions undertaken by a minority within their communities, whatever those communities may be.

On all these counts there is a law enforcement problem, and it's time our state governments faced up to it, whatever the various ethnic groups, footy clubs or hotel associations might like to offer as incentives to do otherwise.

500N 17th Sep 2012 19:19

You are dead right. They are not going to listen if they have their blood up
and want to demonstrate / riot.

The late news showed old footage of the riot police all dressed up
tackling demonstrators. Just what is needed !!!

And re the Sydney Greens, you are spot on. Just look at Clover Moore
who I cannot believe got in for a 3rd term !

hellsbrink 17th Sep 2012 20:14

Why should we assume that people who turn up in Martin Place wanting to punch on will listen to their community leaders?
That would be why I previously said

Until then, it's just words, merely something to calm the natives down before the inevitable backlash.
The difference is that the Police and the Government actually look to these people as if they are some sort of "authority" over matters such as this. Let's face it, if your average chav/bogan/gadgie/ned/scumbag area was involved in the same sort of behaviour you could reasonably assume that the local cops would be in there and be all over them like flies round a dog turd. So why is it always left to "community leaders", why aren't these people identified by now so the police can go in mob-handed and take those who were involved?

Let's face it, it ain't gonna happen. There will be a few token arrests, nobody will be deported, the world will turn.

Oh, and the bunch of average neds going doolally when they've been on the beer ain't the same as a "protest" that has been organised with the intention of kicking one off to show how disgusted they are at something they haven't any knowledge over. There is a difference, yet they will get away with it.

Andu 18th Sep 2012 22:30

Regarding the unpleasantness in Sydney's CBD last Saturday, (which is already being spun by the Leftie MSM darlings as our - the non-Muslims' -fault[!]) the following comment from the (Christian) moderator at a debate between (atheist) Christopher Hitchens and (Christian) John Lennox is illuminating.

“If an idea cannot properly take its stand in the marketplace of ideas without collapsing,if it cannot survive without constantly being guarded from outside attacks, then it is not worth believing in the first place”
This says it all for me.


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