Any old iron...
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 58
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Any old iron...
...well, steel actually. Noticed several times recently that there are an amazing number of rusting lengths of old steel railway track and/or third rail strewn along the approaches to Woking station, along side the line or resting on the sleepers between each track's rails. Also noticed similar sights elsewhere on the Network Rail estate.
Just curious as to why it is left in situ, surely it has some reuse value as scrap metal?
Just curious as to why it is left in situ, surely it has some reuse value as scrap metal?
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Farnborough
Posts: 71
I stand to be corrected, but they often put rails to be laid in the centre of the running tracks, they can be there for a long, long time before being used, so look like old rails. In this day and age surprised no one pinches them. Signalling cable often goes missing.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
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........In this day and age surprised no one pinches them. Signalling cable often goes missing.
Ever tried lifting a piece of rail ?
Ever tried loading a 30' piece of rail onto a small 3.5 tonne truck ? A coil of wire is easier to move.Also, even if you could get it to the scrap yard, it is clearly a train rail and therefore almost certainly nicked, whereas a coil of wire is not quite so identifiable.
What interests me is that rails that are loose or in sidings, rust, but those which are regularly run over don't. Why is this - a film of grease/oil from the train wheel bearings maybe ? Or possibly some sort of galvanic protection between the metal wheels and the rails?
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Friction.
Take a look at a car that's been sitting for a while, the brake discs have a thin rust layer on them. A spin around the block, and they're shiny again. I'd say friction abrades the iron oxide.
mmmmm
mmmmm
mmmmm
Take a look at a car that's been sitting for a while, the brake discs have a thin rust layer on them. A spin around the block, and they're shiny again. I'd say friction abrades the iron oxide.
mmmmm
mmmmm
mmmmm
Last edited by TWT; 15th Jun 2022 at 10:57.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Originally Posted by Uplinker
Also, even if you could get it to the scrap yard, it is clearly a train rail and therefore almost certainly nicked
Thought police antagonist
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Originally Posted by Uplinker
Ever tried lifting a piece of rail ?
Ever tried loading a 30' piece of rail onto a small 3.5 tonne truck ? A coil of wire is easier to move.Also, even if you could get it to the scrap yard, it is clearly a train rail and therefore almost certainly nicked, whereas a coil of wire is not quite so identifiable.
What interests me is that rails that are loose or in sidings, rust, but those which are regularly run over don't. Why is this - a film of grease/oil from the train wheel bearings maybe ? Or possibly some sort of galvanic protection between the metal wheels and the rails?
Hmmm ! classic !
As a thicko it was always my understanding, that, wheel bearings should be kept lubricated and not used to distribute the lubricant across the tracks....which leads to another minor detail....stopping " xxx " or "xxxx "tonnes of train either routinely or in a hurry....what could possibly go wrong with two lubricated surfaces in contact with each other !
By the way, thanks for the deja vu on the Food Strategy Salt and Sugar Tax and food thread..to wit " I bake my own bread (I have a bread maker)"...mentioned in a previous incarnation using an identical style.
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips
Railway tracks are made from Mangalese ...which is a mixture of metals.
Hmmm ! classic !
As a thicko it was always my understanding, that, wheel bearings should be kept lubricated and not used to distribute the lubricant across the tracks....which leads to another minor detail....stopping " xxx " or "xxxx "tonnes of train either routinely or in a hurry....what could possibly go wrong with two lubricated surfaces in contact with each other !
By the way, thanks for the deja vu on the Food Strategy Salt and Sugar Tax and food thread..to wit " I bake my own bread (I have a bread maker)"...mentioned in a previous incarnation using an identical style.
Hmmm ! classic !
As a thicko it was always my understanding, that, wheel bearings should be kept lubricated and not used to distribute the lubricant across the tracks....which leads to another minor detail....stopping " xxx " or "xxxx "tonnes of train either routinely or in a hurry....what could possibly go wrong with two lubricated surfaces in contact with each other !
By the way, thanks for the deja vu on the Food Strategy Salt and Sugar Tax and food thread..to wit " I bake my own bread (I have a bread maker)"...mentioned in a previous incarnation using an identical style.
I think Mangalese is a breed of Pig.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by TWT
Friction.Take a look at a car that's been sitting for a while, the brake discs have a thin rust layer on them. A spin around the block, and they're shiny again. I'd say friction abrades the iron oxide.
*When I say grease or a film of oil, I am talking about microscopically tiny amounts, not a flood !
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by Uplinker
Sure, but what I don't get is that the whole surface of an active rail - sides and base too - is rust free, not just the running surface, hence my wondering what stops the rust. Sometimes when stopped in a train you can see what looks like grease/oil mixed with black dust on the sides of the other active rails. If lubricant was migrating from the bearings*, it would not fall on the rail tops because the wheel would be in the way and would prevent that - the lubricant would be thrown clear; but it could get onto the sides of the rails.
*When I say grease or a film of oil, I am talking about microscopically tiny amounts, not a flood !
*When I say grease or a film of oil, I am talking about microscopically tiny amounts, not a flood !
I'm not sure why the 'spare' rails left lying around don't look the same. Maybe they're not left there for as long as we think?
Join Date: Dec 2017
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They can be there months/years, the running lines are typically 10s of years old.
The grease/dust could be just that - the side of rails id greased on tight radius curves to stop the wheels screeching. There is often residue after the greasing points which I guess is grease/dirt/brake dust.
The grease/dust could be just that - the side of rails id greased on tight radius curves to stop the wheels screeching. There is often residue after the greasing points which I guess is grease/dirt/brake dust.
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
There is a legitimate market for used converters. From scrapped cars.
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And back to treadigraph’s question..
The word you need is “possession” that is to say the ability of Railtrack to halt normal running in order to carry out works on the rail road. Replacing worn out track is often a nighttime activity and there is often insufficient time to remove tonnes of now scrap rail. That job is a lower priority hence can take months…
Just curious as to why it is left in situ
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Originally Posted by Mad Monk
Track steel is typically 1084 or equivalent hot rolled steel. This is a medium carbon steel with 0.7% to 0.8% carbon and 0.7% to 1% manganese.
I think Mangalese is a breed of Pig.
I think Mangalese is a breed of Pig.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips
... it was always my understanding, that, wheel bearings should be kept lubricated and not used to distribute the lubricant across the tracks....which leads to another minor detail....stopping " xxx " or "xxxx "tonnes of train either routinely or in a hurry....what could possibly go wrong with two lubricated surfaces in contact with each other!
So, yeah, they really do grease the rails.
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Originally Posted by Uplinker
Sure, but what I don't get is that the whole surface of an active rail - sides and base too - is rust free, not just the running surface, hence my wondering what stops the rust. Sometimes when stopped in a train you can see what looks like grease/oil mixed with black dust on the sides of the other active rails. If lubricant was migrating from the bearings*, it would not fall on the rail tops because the wheel would be in the way and would prevent that - the lubricant would be thrown clear; but it could get onto tForumshe sides of the rails.
*When I say grease or a film of oil, I am talking about microscopically tiny amounts, not a flood !
*When I say grease or a film of oil, I am talking about microscopically tiny amounts, not a flood !
As an aside if you have got grease leaking from your axle bearings, you are heading for a "hot box" trackside sensor activation which will hopefully see your train stopped before the bearing catches fire.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Once again, can I just say I am not talking about loads of grease coming out of a bearing !
I am talking about a microscopic amount, of occasional tiny droplets which over time and many years might, I say again might, coat the rails with a tiny layer. Maybe not but I was just curious.
Bearings should be checked every so often and regreased or topped up as part of a maintenance schedule?
I am talking about a microscopic amount, of occasional tiny droplets which over time and many years might, I say again might, coat the rails with a tiny layer. Maybe not but I was just curious.
Bearings should be checked every so often and regreased or topped up as part of a maintenance schedule?
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by Uplinker
Once again, can I just say I am not talking about loads of grease coming out of a bearing !
I am talking about a microscopic amount, of occasional tiny droplets which over time and many years might, I say again might, coat the rails with a tiny layer. Maybe not but I was just curious.
Bearings should be checked every so often and regreased or topped up as part of a maintenance schedule?
I am talking about a microscopic amount, of occasional tiny droplets which over time and many years might, I say again might, coat the rails with a tiny layer. Maybe not but I was just curious.
Bearings should be checked every so often and regreased or topped up as part of a maintenance schedule?
Wet leaves are a good analogy to grease, and an awful lot of effort goes into keeping the rails clear of them and then treated with a very sticky coarse substance known as Sandite using Rail Head Treatment Trains.
Yes all rail vehicles are subject to rigorous maintenance and overhaul regimes.
