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Argentina and The Falkland Isles

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Argentina and The Falkland Isles

Old 11th Apr 2022, 16:02
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Argentina and The Falkland Isles

I see on the BBC news that the Argentinian government is again calling for the return of 'their' Las Malvinas, citing 21st century British colonialism. 'Colonialism' is an interesting term, considering the 16th century Spanish rampage through South America and the Caribbean resulting in the seizure of lands, resources and atrocities against the indigenous populations. Portugal, France and England weren't blameless in that era's exploitation to be fair but is it a bit rich of modern Argentina to quote imperialism, considering its own history?
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 16:09
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Originally Posted by stevef View Post
I see on the BBC news that the Argentinian government is again calling for the return of 'their' Las Malvinas, citing 21st century British colonialism. 'Colonialism' is an interesting term, considering the 16th century Spanish rampage through South America and the Caribbean resulting in the seizure of lands, resources and atrocities against the indigenous populations. Portugal, France and England weren't blameless in that era's exploitation to be fair but is it a bit rich of modern Argentina to quote imperialism, considering its own history?
The difference is that, apart from UK and France, the rest have long divested themselves of their colonial past. The UK and France cling on to the trapping of empire. I can't recall many Argentine colonies.
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 16:25
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
The difference is that, apart from UK and France, the rest have long divested themselves of their colonial past. The UK and France cling on to the trapping of empire. I can't recall many Argentine colonies.
Possibly you cannot, but that doesn't mean that there are not. The colonial expansion of Argentina post independence was both extensive and brutal. Indeed, the war on the Mapuche and the theft of their land was closer to a genocide than a colonisation.
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 16:39
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So Argentina should give itself back to the locals, who were there before the Spanish?
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 16:48
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
The difference is that, apart from UK and France, the rest have long divested themselves of their colonial past. The UK and France cling on to the trapping of empire. I can't recall many Argentine colonies.
They have long been a vassal state of the IMF, Goldman Sachs and anyone else daft enough to lend them money.
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 17:04
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Makes me wonder who selected the ďRed Square ď for the new BBC logo and re-branding. These constant attacks against Britain and British institutions by these self declared unbiased reporters is getting annoying . They are beginning to sound like those annoying Trots in the student union .
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 17:10
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
The difference is that, apart from UK and France, the rest have long divested themselves of their colonial past. The UK and France cling on to the trapping of empire. I can't recall many Argentine colonies.
Sorry, I should have worded it better - I meant that Argentina's lineage (along with other Latin American countries) goes back to the cruel 16th century Spanish colonisations. Meanwhile, they're trumpeting that 'the UK is still usurping 'our' land ...'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-...erica-61028653
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 18:15
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Also, not colonialism admittedly but the Argentina regime at the time of the Falklands war was extraordinarily brutal. Refer the ‘missing’ that left bereft relatives and friends behind. Hurling political opponents out of helicopters. Sure, trendy to beat up Britain and we were not perfect but I for one will not be crying for Argentina.
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 18:37
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The difference is that, apart from UK and France, the rest have long divested themselves of their colonial past. The UK and France cling on to the trapping of empire. I can't recall many Argentine colonies.
hmmm. So there are no bits of rock or parts of land around the world governed by the USA, Spain, The Netherlands, China, etc etc to say nothing of the Country currently invading Ukraine.
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 19:04
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
The difference is that, apart from UK and France, the rest have long divested themselves of their colonial past. The UK and France cling on to the trapping of empire. I can't recall many Argentine colonies.
The Malvinas were a colony of Argentina (and others) before they formally became a British colony. Argentina has no more right to the Falklands than Britain - probably less. Since there's no evidence of any indigenous inhabitants, the Falklands could only be 'decolonised' by removing the population and leaving it uninhabited.

Argentina's only purposes in claiming the Falklands were (a) its putative oil reserves - in fact no exploitable reserves have been found, despite considerable effort - and (b) the frequently-used political device of whipping up resentment against a fictional external 'enemy'.
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 19:48
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
The difference is that, apart from UK and France, the rest have long divested themselves of their colonial past. The UK and France cling on to the trapping of empire. I can't recall many Argentine colonies.

You missed the Spanish and the Dutch.
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 20:08
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Originally Posted by fitliker View Post
Makes me wonder who selected the ďRed Square ď for the new BBC logo and re-branding. These constant attacks against Britain and British institutions by these self declared unbiased reporters is getting annoying . They are beginning to sound like those annoying Trots in the student union .
What are you on about. They're reporting what Argentina are saying. Would you rather the BBC didn't report it? Which British institution is under constant attack?
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 20:29
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Constantly looking back and wanting what you no longer have is probably one of the key factors in many wars.
WW2 was Hitler's attempt to take back what Germany lost in WW1. Putin's attempt to take Ukraine again is an attempt to re-acquire the old Soviet Empire. Palestine, Israel, Northern Ireland and so on.
Argentina's attack on the Falklands was no different.
So suggesting Great Britain was just as bad as (the above) is forgetting we were not the aggressor at that time.
Once a significant amount of time has passed. Generations have settled. Such an act will always (and in my opinion) should always be contested, unless the population doesn't want to.

The irony of the Falklands (and happy to be proven wrong here) is that The Falkland's was an administrative and financial burden on the UK and plans were being considered to giving it back, with conditions, to Argentina.
Of course now blood has been spilt more time has to pass. This is why Putin has moved now. Young generations do not want the old Soviet era back. They want to enjoy all of the comforts of the West. In a thousand years I suspect all these borders will have merged.

(Now back to the plot)
What concerns me is do we have sufficient military hardware to contest another incursion?
Another thing that concerns me are the various documentaries and podcasts on the Falklands that seem to be suggesting the conflict was a narrowly averted disaster. All wars are narrowly averted disasters.
I was 14 when the conflict started. My father served in the Navy during the end of WW2. He was visibly concerned. I think once you have experience of a real war you can see it all starting over again.
For a young lad it was all boys own stuff with plenty of "Who Dares Wins".
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 20:57
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Originally Posted by air pig View Post
You missed the Spanish and the Dutch.
While Spain demands Gibraltar back they ignore their own enclaves.

Ceuta and Melilla: Spain's enclaves in North Africa https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-57305882

On the face of it, the Moroccan claim to the territory seems to make perfect sense. The enclaves are on African soil, while Spain is in Europe. It looks like a classic case of European colonialism.
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 21:20
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Argentina's only purposes in claiming the Falklands were (a) its putative oil reserves - in fact no exploitable reserves have been found, despite considerable effort - and (b) the frequently-used political device of whipping up resentment against a fictional external 'enemy'.
So, why does UK want to hold onto a place like this? Let them have it, and save the money.
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 21:58
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For the same reason oil, gas and metal reserves, plus the population desire to remain as a British Territory.

Anniversary sabre rattling.
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 22:17
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
plus the population desire to remain as a British Territory.
And if the local population donít desire to remain a British territory then just forcibly move them off the island, just like was done to the Chagos Islanders less than a decade before the UK decided they had to defend the local populationís wishes in the Falklands:

Expulsion of the Chagossians
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Old 11th Apr 2022, 23:51
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
So, why does UK want to hold onto a place like this? Let them have it, and save the money.
They are English speaking British descendants living on a British Crown protectorate.
They want to be governed by themselves under those terms and not become part of Argentina. It's called self determination. I guess you reckon Ukraine should surrender to Putin and bank the savings of not fighting? You probably do at that....
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 03:43
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
And if the local population donít desire to remain a British territory then just forcibly move them off the island, just like was done to the Chagos Islanders less than a decade before the UK decided they had to defend the local populationís wishes in the Falklands:
You seem to share Putinís outlook of the world
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 06:19
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Originally Posted by Spanish eyes View Post
You seem to share Putinís outlook of the world
Maybe you didnít detect the sarcasm, but I see the UK forcibly expelling the local population of the Chagos Islands as a bad thing. And then using the reasoning of respecting the wishes of the local population of Falklands as hypocrisy given what happened to the Chaggosians.
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