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The Colston Four

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The Colston Four

Old 25th May 2022, 13:48
  #341 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
I must have missed the post where anyone suggested that - can you point me to it, please ?

Well, CJ's reply to the comment of:
"I think we know which one should therefore be a priority."
was to state:
Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Apart from the instant irritation of someone assuming (incorrectly) my thought processes, that statement lacks both validity and supporting argument.
I fail to read it as anything other than disagreeing with the original comment.
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Old 25th May 2022, 16:26
  #342 (permalink)  
 
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I hope that shower get off to China soon, to take down some of their statues..........
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Old 26th May 2022, 13:55
  #343 (permalink)  
 
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Some (fairly predictable) responses here folks ! So let's see if we can deal with a fact or two ...
I have, nowhere, suggested that modern day slavery is, in any way, less reprehensible than that from years past. Any differentiation I make is based on one simple fact (which may have escaped the notice of my critics) - the Uyghur problem is occuring in China. AO's childish response above can be assessed for what it is, but the other (presumably intentional) mis-interpretations of my statement display an (apparent) ignorance of the limitations imposed by geography ! If they really are unaware of the difficulties (one might say impossibilities) of conducting protest demonstrations,( let alone actions), in PRC, I can only suggest a much overdue revision of the World's land mass distribution !
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Old 26th May 2022, 14:39
  #344 (permalink)  
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Allow me to come to the rescue. The embassy of a given country is considered to be their sovereign territory and is an extension of that nation state. The historic issues happened in West Africa, the Caribbean and the southern states of the USA. Protesting many thousands of miles from the location of those dreadful events appears to have set a precedent. The celebrity vandals need only travel as far as the Chinese embassy in Portland Place, London - nearest tube is Regents Park.

Thanks also for clarifying that there was a disconnect between brain and keyboard.

Last edited by B Fraser; 26th May 2022 at 15:46. Reason: typo
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Old 26th May 2022, 15:06
  #345 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Some (fairly predictable) responses here folks ! So let's see if we can deal with a fact or two ...
I have, nowhere, suggested that modern day slavery is, in any way, less reprehensible than that from years past. Any differentiation I make is based on one simple fact (which may have escaped the notice of my critics) - the Uyghur problem is occuring in China. AO's childish response above can be assessed for what it is, but the other (presumably intentional) mis-interpretations of my statement display an (apparent) ignorance of the limitations imposed by geography ! If they really are unaware of the difficulties (one might say impossibilities) of conducting protest demonstrations,( let alone actions), in PRC, I can only suggest a much overdue revision of the World's land mass distribution !
Right. Because it’s happening ‘somewhere else’ there’s nothing we can do about it then?
The slave trade was also happening ‘somewhere else’ too but that didn’t stop the public expressing their disquiet and eventual revulsion - in an era without mass communication and wider government unity and it was ultimately and rightly banned. Today, by boycotting China imports and alienating them as has been done to Russia over Ukraine could have major leverage in the treatment of the Uyghurs.

My issue always has been over the protests about a wrong that was righted 150 years ago and the excuse for vandalism. Colston’s ‘crime’ was he was a product of his era when it was believed by the Western world that the white man was superior. Of course that’s ignorance/arrogance - but we are judging him by today’s standards. I don’t believe he was inherently evil, Colston used his wealth to provide financial support to almshouses, hospitals, schools, workhouses and churches throughout England, particularly in his home city of Bristol.

If you think Colston’s statue was justifiably torn down because of symbolism, then we should certainly be demolishing somewhere like Auchwitz because the crimes committed there were definitely committed by wickedness.
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Old 26th May 2022, 17:53
  #346 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BWSBoy6 View Post

If you think Colston’s statue was justifiably torn down because of symbolism, then we should certainly be demolishing somewhere like Auchwitz because the crimes committed there were definitely committed by wickedness.
With the obvious difference that Colston’s statue was erected to commemorate and celebrate the perpetrator not the victims.

Auschwitz has been preserved as a memorial to the victims, and to ensure that the evil perpetrated there is remembered, not as a shrine to the Nazi’s.

But you knew that didn’t you?
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Old 26th May 2022, 20:42
  #347 (permalink)  
 
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B Fraser and BWSBoy6 - I'm sure you chaps/chappesses are quite satisfied that you have made valid points in your above submissions, but my tired old brain remains unable to debate on views based on non sequiturs.
Even without my personal experience of Embassy life, the international status of such buildings was long known. To proceed from that fact to suggest that waving banners outside the Chinese Embassy would produce anything of the remotest value to the Uyghurs, is best described in terms which would, undoubtedly get me banned ! Having said which, don't let my lack of enthusiasm deter either of you from practising what you preach ! With the onset of Summer, I would suggest provision of good rainwear !
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Old 27th May 2022, 05:42
  #348 (permalink)  
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And by contrast, what value is there in vandalising a statue that is of benefit to slaves who were traded 300 years ago ?

I wonder if the Colston 4 are now finding it difficult to get a meaningful job ?
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Old 27th May 2022, 10:15
  #349 (permalink)  
 
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And by contrast, what value is there in vandalising a statue that is of benefit to slaves who were traded 300 years ago ?
Well, 348 submissions on this thread, together with reams of relevant publicity locally and nationally. !!
I would venture the opinion that banner waving outside the Chinese Embassy would be considerably less effective - but your enthusiasm for such can be indulged instantly, should you so wish !
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Old 27th May 2022, 10:21
  #350 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
And by contrast, what value is there in vandalising a statue that is of benefit to slaves who were traded 300 years ago ?
Well, 348 submissions on this thread, together with reams of relevant publicity locally and nationally. !!
I would venture the opinion that banner waving outside the Chinese Embassy would be considerably less effective - but your enthusiasm for such can be indulged instantly, should you so wish !
Yet again you've managed to reply without actually responding to a question that was asked and that question was how did the slaves who were traded 300 years ago benefit from the removal of the statue?
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Old 27th May 2022, 10:46
  #351 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 747 jock View Post
Yet again you've managed to reply without actually responding to a question that was asked and that question was how did the slaves who were traded 300 years ago benefit from the removal of the statue?
By the same ridiculous measure, do you suppose Colson is upset that his statue took a bath?

It's now, some people got tired of seeing an old slaver feted. They threw his statue in the docks. Oh dear.
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Old 27th May 2022, 11:10
  #352 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 747 jock View Post
Yet again you've managed to reply without actually responding to a question that was asked and that question was how did the slaves who were traded 300 years ago benefit from the removal of the statue?
While I appreciate the immense effort which you put into your exquisitely phrased query, I, generally, try to avoid encouraging pointless debate. While not personally involved, I understand that there are 'social media' outlets where such irrelevant topics provoke endless 'discussions'. Should you so indulge, and garner socially useful responses, please feel free to offer such 'pearls' to the thread.
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Old 27th May 2022, 12:36
  #353 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 747 jock View Post
Yet again you've managed to reply without actually responding to a question that was asked and that question was how did the slaves who were traded 300 years ago benefit from the removal of the statue?
I was always taught that it's very bad manners to attempt to answer a rhetorical question.
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Old 27th May 2022, 13:17
  #354 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
I was always taught that it's very bad manners to attempt to answer a rhetorical question.
And I was taught not to make assumptions when debating.
How exactly do you know that it was a rhetorical question and not something that the poster wanted an answer to?

Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
While I appreciate the immense effort which you put into your exquisitely phrased query, I, generally, try to avoid encouraging pointless debate. While not personally involved, I understand that there are 'social media' outlets where such irrelevant topics provoke endless 'discussions'. Should you so indulge, and garner socially useful responses, please feel free to offer such 'pearls' to the thread.
By that, I get the feeling that you mean that you try to avoid debating when you don't have any relevant answers to question posed.
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Old 27th May 2022, 14:28
  #355 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 747 jock View Post
And I was taught not to make assumptions when debating.
How exactly do you know that it was a rhetorical question and not something that the poster wanted an answer to?


By that, I get the feeling that you mean that you try to avoid debating when you don't have any relevant answers to question posed.
Aren’t you making an assumption there?
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Old 27th May 2022, 15:22
  #356 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 747 jock View Post
How exactly do you know that it was a rhetorical question and not something that the poster wanted an answer to?
Always happy to help:


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Old 29th May 2022, 16:39
  #357 (permalink)  
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"Oh dear, how sad..they seem to have missed quite a lot "...hopefully, it was a type of paint which can be difficult to remove.

Shame there's no convenient harbour really...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-61625497
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Old 29th May 2022, 16:50
  #358 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
"Oh dear, how sad..they seem to have missed quite a lot "...hopefully, it was a type of paint which can be difficult to remove.

Shame there's no convenient harbour really...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-61625497
I know it‘s wrong, but wish I had been there to see it. Awful woman who took the divisions of the country and made them good and proper.

Was it those henious villains The Colson Four again? Or were they otherwise engaged protesting the plight of the Uigurs at the behest of the “better things to do“ gang?
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Old 30th May 2022, 10:07
  #359 (permalink)  
 
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Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP
Who he ?
Fine sounding chap, apparently elected to Parliament as representing somewhere in Somerset. Apart from being reminiscent of a power station and a 007 villain, what else is noteworthy. ? Reportedly has had great difficulty whipping his accountants into action to provide the required accounts for tax purposes for some nine years or so ! Given the amounts involved, (circa £150m), one can understand the difficulties. As a deeply committed member of the 'wrap our arms around you' version of the Tory Party, he, reportedly, sees the recent 'save our asses' give-away as being un-Torylike, and to be "red meat to Labour" or something similar. All-in-all, nothing paricularly remarkable for a fan of the Lying Buffoon, but why mention it here ?
The source of his (and his family's) wealth, it would seem is directly attributable (and traceable) to their involvement in the slave trade. ... now, there's a thing !
I must acknowledge the fact that these interesting snippets were derived from Youtube items by James O'Brian and the Guardian, for which much thanks !
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Old 30th May 2022, 12:34
  #360 (permalink)  
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Mr Jack sir,

It transpires that a very close relative is descended from the Vikings and as such, her possessions include several sizeable parcels of real estate that were acquired at sword-point some time ago under what would now be considered anti-social behaviour. Does this have any relevance today ? If so then who is to judge and to whom should those lands be returned ?
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