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NHS, GM

Old 5th Jul 2021, 13:51
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NHS, GM

I am speechless! Well, almost. In all the many years that Her Majesty has been on the throne, and before that, I have not known her to put even so much as a toe wrong. Until now.

I can imagine who suggested that she award the George Medal to "our" NHS but I'm astonished that those who advise her did not immediately scotch the ridiculous notion. To so diminish the acts of the likes of Maurice Griffiths, James Harries, John Inglis, Hugh Syme and almost two thousand others by making this award to those, who for the most part were only doing the job for which they are paid, is a shameful act. Certainly, there were many at the coalface of the Covid response who performed marvellously and there is no reason why their exceptional performances should not be recognised, but to bestow this honour instituted by her father upon "our" NHS - a failing institution - is to substantially lessen the value and prestige of the George Medal which, up to now, has been issued only in respect of acts of outstanding bravery. I do not regard the GM as at all appropriate in these circumstances and feel that the merits of past recipients have been demeaned by this overtly political act.

I now expect Pratt Hancock to be made Lord Protector.
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Old 5th Jul 2021, 13:57
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I agree, totally disproportionate!
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Old 5th Jul 2021, 14:32
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I'm inclined to always agree with Her Maj over Ppruners. On any matter.

CG
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Old 5th Jul 2021, 15:14
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No different to KGVI awarding the island of Malta the GC during WW2, it is intended for everyone in the NHS.
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Old 5th Jul 2021, 15:26
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I can see pressure coming from certain quarters. "We don't want to give them any more money, but will be up stinky creek if they go on strike, what can be done to defer action?" Pause. "Oh, Her Maj, an award of some sort. Go down well with the masses and increase the Crown's popularity. Draft a letter sir Humphrey"
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Old 5th Jul 2021, 15:49
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Daughter works in NHS.
At one stage, she managed to avoid the Red wards. Then they found a facemask that fitted. So she spent time on the Red wards.

In her humble opinion, never mind the George/Henry/Albert/Elisabeth medal.

Money would be handy. She and HWMBO just moved house.

But she is not greedy as a couple of years ago, her and her ilk got a huge increase via agenda for change, or some such title.
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Old 5th Jul 2021, 17:19
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George Cross comes with an annuity of £10,000pa. Number of employees in the NHS is 1.5M

I make that around 0.65p each.

Don’t spend it all at once…..

Last edited by ORAC; 5th Jul 2021 at 18:39.
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Old 5th Jul 2021, 18:29
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
George Criss comes with an annuity of £10,000pa. Number of employees in the NHS is 1.5M

I make that around 0.65p each.

Don’t spend it all at once…..
I bet Boris would not have been in such a hurry if it was £10k each. Might have actually gone some way to actually say thank you. Take it out of the HS2 budget.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 07:27
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
George Cross comes with an annuity of £10,000pa. Number of employees in the NHS is 1.5M

I make that around 0.65p each.

Donít spend it all at onceÖ..
Making it a cynical political headline grabbing gesture.

Two things really count. First proper financing of the NHS to enable slack in the system to cope with future unexpected events; second proper remuneration for those at the lower end of the wage scale (not doctors, consultants etc) to attract the foot soldiers the NHS needs to keep it running (including nurses, paramedics and their like).
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 07:46
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All seems a bit silly to me. I reckon NHS needs root and branch reform and the GP system needs a rethink. All this talk of doctors retiring early because of the lifetime allowance cap is pointer. Vocation 0 - Gravey Train 1.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 08:01
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
All seems a bit silly to me. I reckon NHS needs root and branch reform and the GP system needs a rethink. All this talk of doctors retiring early because of the lifetime allowance cap is pointer. Vocation 0 - Gravey Train 1.
That's exactly what the NHS needs, but at the first sniff of the words the Labour party screams "privatisation!!" and the public starts whittling on about we don't want an "American style health system" when in practise neither would be remotely likely, and there are a myriad different public health systems around the globe, some of which, contrary to popular belief may actually perform better than "our" (sacred) NHS.

Time to remove the rose tinted glasses and the bashing of pots and pans in the street and start getting really serious about the changing needs and priorities for health and social care in UK, how much it is going to cost, how it should be funded (insurance, tax or a combination) and where the money is going to come from, (what else is needs to by trimmed from the government spending) seeing as the magic money tree is bare.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 08:43
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NHS + GC = Buffoon's "cost of everything, (for others) value of nothing" assessment.
As to the need for a revamp - no doubt one is required, but, under no circumstances by the present 'Government' !
Pre NHS with its home call 'family' doctors and small, truly 'local' hospitals and nursing homes, 3d a week for the Hospital Board and aspirin and M&B tablets as the 'cure-all, is light-years removed from today's 'production-line' process. Almost a 'humanity versus technology' comparison. There are, undoubtedly, improvements to be made, but the over-weening desire of our Government for profit (preferably personal) above performance bodes ill for any 'reform'.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 08:56
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
All seems a bit silly to me. I reckon NHS needs root and branch reform and the GP system needs a rethink. All this talk of doctors retiring early because of the lifetime allowance cap is pointer. Vocation 0 - Gravey Train 1.
That seems a particularly unfair observation: these professionals are being literally charged large sums for giving their time and going to work, not just paying a huge proportion of their wages in tax, but being worse-off paying more than they earn for leaving their families and putting in extra work. It seems quite reasonable that those with an understanding of the system donít want to play any more, but it is a problem with HMRC, not NHS.

i believe the U.K. health system would work much better without the ambulance-chasers and insurance premiums that follow. This is a fairly industry which isnít acting for the greater good (to say the least). Then remove the bean-counting management consultants and private (profit seeking) companies and return to a flawed system where people largely worked for the greater good in a system which though flawed, seems to work far better and cost far less than what we have today. Adoption of aviationís open-reporting and safety practices would help a deal too.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 09:12
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NHS staff were fully employed and paid all the way through - unlike the millions of others who lost their jobs, livelihoods and see no likelihood of any recovery in the near future either. Maybe this group deserve a George medal in recognition of the sacrifices they’ve made and had no choice about making?

Incidentally, my brother in law works as a radiographer in a U.K. hospital. He chooses to be contracted for 4 days a week (Mandag to Thirdsay) then volunteers regularly to work on Fridays and weekends because he gets double money for these extra hours. To me he’s just financially exploiting a loophole and he’s probably far from the only one. No wonder running the NHS is always in dire straits.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 09:24
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Yep there are demand and supply chain problems. I used to get prescription medicines for my late father in law. Except it included non-pom stuff too. The queue of people taking carrier bags full of stuff from the prescription counter was astonishing. Never a penny paid. When be died he left a cupboard full of of used medicines, multiple packs of some including tramadol which he never used but continued to stock up monthly, presumably 'just in case'. The system has encouraged a culture of entitlement which shades into greed. Very very inefficient and wasteful.
Similar attitude at A&E with people presenting themselves there because they can, so the worried well and the over anxious parents take their due.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 09:35
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Originally Posted by parabellum View Post
No different to KGVI awarding the island of Malta the GC during WW2, it is intended for everyone in the NHS.
Good heavens! this is a facile and silly observation. These two things could not possibly be less analogous.

To confine myself to just the second siege of Malta which lasted some 30 months of continuous aerial bombardment, the civil population suffered 1,500 deaths and more than 3,700 injuries, not to mention constant deprivation of food, cooking and other oils and coming within ten days of capitulation to the enemy due to starvation. The Santa Marija convoy is one of the greatest feats in military annals. They couldn't indulge themselves with banging pots and pans on a Thursday - nearly all of what they had had gone as scrap to provide war materiel.

Please read something of the history before comparing a dysfunctional health system with the behaviour of a proud and noble people fully deserving of the George Cross in defence of the British Empire in a conflict not of their choosing and, given the strong cultural influences of Italy, one which inevitably caused some divided loyalties. So, since June, 1940, the citizenry of Malta, GC can be added to the roll of deserving GM holders I mentioned in my earlier post. Yours is a comparison odious indeed.

I might add that until "our" NHS no longer is regarded as a sacred cow, little of any real consequence will be done to precipitate its very necessary overhaul. Having this year spent almost £10,000 of my taxed pensions on surgical attention which should have been provided by "our" NHS (because I would be dead, deaf and blind before they got around to treating me), I have some skin in this game. I am fortunate in that I am able to pay for private treatment, but what of the millions not so privileged? Anyone having experience of health care regimes in other developed economies will easily recognise the NHS as the national disgrace that it is.

The GC was instituted to recognise acts of the greatest heroism or of the most conspicuous courage in circumstances of extreme danger. What on earth was the Queen thinking of when agreeing to the recommendation made by the Prime Minister and government in respect of this failing, taxpayer-funded monolith?

Last edited by Gipsy Queen; 6th Jul 2021 at 10:24.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 10:17
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Originally Posted by Gipsy Queen;11074108



I might add that until "our" NHS no longer is regarded as a sacred cow, little of any real consequence will be done to precipitate its very necessary overhaul.[u
Having this year spent almost £10,000 of my taxed pensions on surgical attention which should have been provided by "our" NHS (because I would be dead, deaf and blind before they got around to treating me), I have some skin in this game. I am fortunate in that I am able to pay for private treatment, but what of the millions not so privileged? Anyone having experience of health care regimes in other developed economies will easily recognise the NHS as the national disgrace that it is.

The GC was instituted to recognise acts of the greatest heroism or of the most conspicuous courage in circumstances of extreme danger. What was the Queen thinking of?
Thank you for that exemplification of selfishness personified.

You are indeed fortunate in being able to pay that amount, incidentally, nearly everybody with a pension pays tax on pensions other than the state pension so you will be distraught to learn you are not unique, because as you say millions are not so fortunate.

Your complaint therefore is null and void.

That and the waiting lists are horrendous, something being very carefully concealed from the public by a Gov't intent on praising itself for the vaccine rollout less their priority of ensuring they remain popular become tarnished to the extent they get voted out of office as a result.

Here's a little titbit for you. We also resorted to private medicine, an anathema to both of us, for a long delayed carpel tunnel op. Took about 40 mins, in / carve/ relocate nerve / secure and cup of tea. The cost came from our savings. The relief from one source of pain for the lady was priceless.

However, it's your last line that summates you perfectly...how you can glibly state the " NHS is the national disgrace that it is" given the unprecedented efforts and dedication shown by NHS personnel frankly warrants a rare use of emoticons..! This on the basis as you may be aware of recent personal experiences.

Trust me sunshine, I feel VERY strongly about the NHS ..and those who choose to denigrate it.!

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 6th Jul 2021 at 10:41.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 10:49
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Thank you for that exemplification of selfishness personified.

You are indeed fortunate in being able to pay that amount, incidentally, nearly everybody with a pension pays tax on pensions other than the state pension so you will be distraught to learn you are not unique, because as you say millions are not so fortunate.

Your complaint therefore is null and void.

That and the waiting lists are horrendous, something being very carefully concealed from the public by a Gov't intent on praising itself for the vaccine rollout less their priority of ensuring they remain popular become tarnished to the extent they get voted out of office as a result.

Here's a little titbit for you. We also resorted to private medicine, an anathema to both of us, for a long delayed carpel tunnel op. Took about 40 mins, in / carve/ relocate nerve / secure and cup of tea. The cost came from our savings. The relief from one source of pain for the lady was priceless.

However, it's your last line that summates you perfectly...how you can glibly state the " NHS is the national disgrace that it is" given the unprecedented efforts and dedication shown by NHS personnel frankly warrants a rare use of emoticons..! This on the basis as you may be aware of recent personal experiences.

Trust me sunshine, I feel VERY strongly about the NHS ..and those who choose to denigrate it.!
I think that's a bit hard on GQ, as they recognise that they are in the fortunate position to have £10k to spend on their own health when the NHS has failed them, albeit for very understandable reasons. on a far more trivial scale I need my ears washing out, something that I would normally get done at the GP's surgery. However since getting through the doors to see a doctor about something possibly a deal more serious than being a tad mutton-jeff is still nigh on impossible I'm not really inclined to even broach the subject with the GP gatekeeper. I can afford the £50 to get it done privately and probably will do so.

Please however take off your rose-tinted glasses; the NHS isn't perfect and isn't, or at least shouldn't be some sort of God-like institution down to which we should all bow. It does a job, and it or its successor could do the job a lot better, but there is so much resistance from the public at large, mostly also wearers of said pink glasses, to the slightest notion of making any more than small changes at the periphery that it is unlikely ever to become the service it could be, rather than the one that lurches from crisis to crisis each winter. Be sure I have had enough experience of the NHS second hand; relatives being made sicker than they were when they were taken in, people being left in their own excrement on a hospital ward and when they were incapable of feeding themselves just having food left beside them, and to top it all, the same relative being discharged in their nightie at 2.00am when they were in no fit state to be discharged at all!

Don't tell me the NHS is wonderful, it isn't, but it's all we've got until someone has the balls to properly reform healthcare in the UK, and that, is certainly not the lunatics currently in charge of the asylum (Westminster).
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 11:35
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After her recent experiences of the NHS my wife is calling it The National Horror Service. Just over two weeks ago, on a Saturday afternoon, we were involved in a road accident. The car was written off. Police, Paramedic and ambulances attended. All were excellent. Wife taken to hospital for a check up ( I was not allowed to accompany her because of Covid restrictions ). She waited at hospital for over five hours before she was seen by a doctor - she had had to ask if there were any doctors. While waiting she was given a cup of tea. Nurses took her blood pressure numerous times, noted it on a pad and disappeared. Not one asked how she was. At about 10 pm she was eventually examined, x-rays taken and she was discharged. Son in law and self collected her at 1.00am. She had the worst and most extensive bruising I've ever seen ( almost certainly caused by airbags and seat belt ).. Her pain was so bad that on the Monday morning I called our GP's surgery. The receptionist said that discharge notes were there - nothing was broken. I asked if a GP would visit ( we're about quarter of a mile from the surgery. Receptionist spoke to a doctor - no visit possible - take her to hospital. I explained that she could hardly walk, certainly couldn't get into or out of a car ( which I didn't have anyway ). Hire car received later that day so I went to local pharmacy - very helpful - obtained stronger pain killers. Two weeks later bruising still very bad. I called 111. Thirty minutes wait. Then spoke to a very helpful person who said we would be called back by a medical professional. An hour later ( midnight ) a doctor called. Barely able to tell what she was saying but the conversation ended with her saying that a medical professional would call later. About twenty minutes later a telephone call came from "Jackie" who proved to be well on top of her job, asked all the right questions and fully reassured my wife.
Fortunately my wife's injuries are now healing and she's starting to return to normality.
So what can be deduced from this ? That the NHS is staffed by the usual cross section of people - good, bad and indifferent. Those on the font line - ambulance staff - are really good. Hospitals are struggling but that does not excuse the staff's lack of basic humanity. As for GPs - they're just an overpaid joke - they've abdicated their responsibilities and thrown them onto hospital A and E.. Our experience of our GPs is not unique. Judging by social media it's now the norm for all GPs.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 11:49
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ATN,

I can assure my view of the NHS doesn't involve any of Specsavers products.

If you want criticism, the weakness of the NHS is the Admin. Getting out of a hospital is a protracted nightmare.

And then there's the car parking. One hospital was very good. I paid during visits, but not when collecting on discharge. Just took the Blue Badge to a conveniently located office, got a new token, all sorted. At another, the office was conveniently located as far as possible from the car park..funny that, at another "closed ". Pay at the machine, "no change given"..true, you can pay by card, but, not everybody has contactless or the right change. The money rolls in ! for the operator that is.

At one, some administrator was clearly confused as to the difference between a hospital and a bus station. Gone were the "Wards > Dept's " signs being replaced with "Routes" as in 201-220 for example.

The NHS has long been a favourite target for many on JB, usually loyal disciples of the unlamented deceased and her "free market economy " or privatisation and profits before all else, but, when the NHS is described as a "national disgrace", then that statement alone warrants the strongest condemnation possible !

Here's the real root of the NHS problems..

Steve Bell on the 73rd birthday of the NHS – cartoon | Opinion | The Guardian
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