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Scottish Politics

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Scottish Politics

Old 27th Mar 2021, 15:11
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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Now, I am no fan of Alex Salmond, but I found the following excerpt from a BBC story very interesting:

Speaking on the campaign trail on Saturday, Ms Sturgeon said: "I take no pleasure whatsoever in saying this but I think there are significant questions about the appropriateness of his return to public office given the concerns that have been raised about his behaviour previously but that's for voters to judge and decide.

Isnít the very tenet of our legal system that an individual, once found not guilty, should be able to resume their life after any legal proceedings?

I think he looks and sounds like a slime ball. But if we have any respect for the courts surely Nicola Sturgeon cannot arbitrarily decide that Salmond is guilty despite what the courts say.

Iíd say she needs to take a breath and think before she continues with that particular narrative.

BV



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Old 27th Mar 2021, 15:12
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by edi_local View Post
Seeing as how the overwhelming majority of countries around the world seem to function without "handouts from South of the border" I think it would be a bit strange if Scotland Turned out to the the only one that somehow couldn't manage its own affairs.
They probably didn't start out with a benefit per capita of over £3k.

CG
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 17:11
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
'Independence' for scotland in the post covid world will be such a great idea - England will have no money to grant a 'golden goodbye'/divorce settlement other then ''here is your share of the national debt'' - but I suppose the SNP obviously think Scotland is rich enough to perhaps take Scotlands share of the UK national debt and still be able to guarantee the running costs of the Council Services,Health Services,and the general public's Salaries and Pensions etc.
If Scotland does vote for 'Independence' and stays truly 'Independent' then there should not be a problem vis a vis an open Border with England although the Scots might lose the automatic right to jobs etc in England in the post covid world - but if Scotland does manage to join the EU instead of being truly 'Independent' then there will probably be the spectre of of a Hard Border between England/Scotland.

The Financial numbers for 'Independence' did not add up for the last 'Indyref' - they are going to be a whole lot worse in the post covid world - who really knows what our future lifestyle is going to be ?

It's an interesting question regarding the Scottish share of the national debt. How exactly would that be handed over and would they be able to get the same rates? Scotland on its own may not seem as favourable as the UK as a whole and it could cost more to service. Of course the SNP and Alba will think that it is worth it, but I'm not so sure that when the actual amounts and what it really means to the individual are revealed, the masses will not be as keen to vote for independence.
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 17:21
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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Scotland is actually quite a wealthy country with more natural resources than other similar sized countries.
Today for example it is providing 15% of England's electricity.
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 17:55
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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Today for example it is providing 15% of England's electricity
You mean you are SELLING it. Other providers are available!
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 18:14
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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They probably didn't start out with a benefit per capita of over £3k.
CG, this is the sort of nonsense that actually stokes the fires of the independence movement. That figure is the share of the treasury's income that is returned to Scotland. I don't have the figures for how much Scots pay in - probably nobody can have them accurately - but between income tax, corporation tax and VAT paid to the treasury by Scots and Scottish companies then it is very close to a net zero; some economists think that Scotland is a net contributor to the UK finances. So the arrogant, condescending attitude "they can't survive without English handouts" really gets up the noses of most Scots, even the ones who don't/wouldn't vote for independence.
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 18:23
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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As Scotland is so rich you wont need Barnett anymore.
Barnett was to eventually view the formula that he devised as unfair. In The Scotsman in January 2004 he wrote, "It was never meant to last this long, but it has gone on and on and it has become increasingly unfair to the regions of England. I didn't create this formula to give Scotland an advantage over the rest of the country when it comes to public funding."
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 19:45
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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All this talk of money and wealth is irrelevant. It's the sovereignty stupid! The average Scot wanting independence won't be deterred by the economics. See Brexit 2016 - it's about taking back control.
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 19:49
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BizJetJock View Post
CG, this is the sort of nonsense that actually stokes the fires of the independence movement. That figure is the share of the treasury's income that is returned to Scotland. I don't have the figures for how much Scots pay in - probably nobody can have them accurately - but between income tax, corporation tax and VAT paid to the treasury by Scots and Scottish companies then it is very close to a net zero; some economists think that Scotland is a net contributor to the UK finances. So the arrogant, condescending attitude "they can't survive without English handouts" really gets up the noses of most Scots, even the ones who don't/wouldn't vote for independence.
I was more highlighting the starting point. There would be an expectation that 30% of gdp would still be paid in benefit. (IFS Report)

CG
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 20:49
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BizJetJock View Post
CG, this is the sort of nonsense that actually stokes the fires of the independence movement. That figure is the share of the treasury's income that is returned to Scotland. I don't have the figures for how much Scots pay in - probably nobody can have them accurately - but between income tax, corporation tax and VAT paid to the treasury by Scots and Scottish companies then it is very close to a net zero; some economists think that Scotland is a net contributor to the UK finances. So the arrogant, condescending attitude "they can't survive without English handouts" really gets up the noses of most Scots, even the ones who don't/wouldn't vote for independence.
Income tax paid in Scotland goes to the Scottish Government. Scot Gov

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Old 27th Mar 2021, 20:55
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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When Scotland becomes independent and rejoins the EU how are we going to go on holiday to Europe with our cars? Will we have to transit England, going through their Customs posts before catching a ferry to the Continent or will CalMac have started a daily service from Glasgow to Cherbourg?
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 21:25
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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I am not aware that Scotland has any intention of preventing travellers from crossing the border into England, so I would imagine that things will carry on pretty much as before.
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 22:45
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by terrain safe View Post
Income tax paid in Scotland goes to the Scottish Government. Scot Gov
..from your own ref;

Responsibility for setting the tax-free Personal Allowance, and reliefs and exemptions, remains reserved to the UK Parliament. Income Tax on savings and dividend income is also reserved and continues to be paid to the UK Government. Therefore, Scottish Income Tax remains part of the UK Income Tax system and is not a fully devolved tax.
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 23:35
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
I am not aware that Scotland has any intention of preventing travellers from crossing the border into England, so I would imagine that things will carry on pretty much as before.
I would imagine thereís two sides to every story.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 03:09
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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I'll happily concede some of these figures are a little dated so feel free to update them;

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/th...102816431.html
Monthly disposable income of richest to poorest UK workers:
  1. Aberdeen — £1,449.95
  2. Hull — £1,238.58
  3. Edinburgh — £1,116.39
  4. Glasgow — £1,101.92
  5. Newcastle — £1,039.54
  6. Portsmouth — £1,024.96
  7. Leicester — £1,007.14
  8. Southampton — £997.50
  9. Exeter — £991.93
  10. Leeds — £940.88
  11. Cardiff — £938.96
  12. Sheffield — £924.08
  13. Liverpool — £918.31
  14. Brighton — £911.16
  15. Birmingham — £896.22
  16. Bristol — £849.09
  17. Manchester — £833.54
  18. London — £221.16
or,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...iness-45275988

It also turns out that Scotland's tax contribution per head is well above several other parts of the UK.

ONS has calculated the net total balance per head for each part of the UK. That means taking its estimate of spending set against its estimate of revenue, and divided by the number of people.

Because the UK has been running a deficit, there was a £695 "deficit per head" during 2016-17.

For Scotland, that figure was £2,651 - a big number, no doubt. But for Northern Ireland, with higher spending and a much lower tax base, it was more than £5000. For Wales, also lacking much of a tax base, it was £4,251.

Three parts of the UK had a net surplus. London's was £3,697, according to the ONS. In south-east England, it was £2,150, and in the East of England, it was £895.

Every other part of England had a "deficit-per-head", with the highest at £3,718 for the north-east.
...how about;

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com...on-105411.aspx
Major UK centres with more than 30,000 people in employment in the industry include Birmingham, Bristol, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, and Manchester. According to the report, Edinburgh and Manchester are the biggest financial centres outside London.
and;
When it comes to insurance, in particular, the report revealed that UK’s biggest insurance centre outside London is Scotland’s Glasgow.
Lets be clear, BoJo has written the script; I wonder how long before Salmond fires back with "Get Indy Done".

ps. My birth certificate has 'Bedford Way, City of Westminster', so I'll be applying for both passports. Oh, and Mrs Oilcan is from Cambridge. ...and it was her birthday today...Yipeee.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 08:07
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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All income tax paid by Scottish residents go to the Scottish exchequer. Army, Navy and RAF personnel who are penalised by the Scottish tax bands are compensated by the MOD.

Tax Bands:Scotland: Over £12,570 - £14,667 --19%
Over £14,667 - £25,296 --20%
Over £25,296 - £43,662 --21%
Over £43,662 - £150,000 --41%
Over £150,000 --46%
Tax Bands Rest UK Over £12,501 to £50,000 --20%
Over £50,001 to £150,000 40%
Over £150,000 --45%

The only way for Scottish income tax to go with Independence is UP which will penalise middle and higher income people even more. There is no shortage of them that will relocate down south.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 11:45
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
All this talk of money and wealth is irrelevant. It's the sovereignty stupid! The average Scot wanting independence won't be deterred by the economics. See Brexit 2016 - it's about taking back control.
But what are they taking back control of EM? The national debt? Fisheries? Or is it the Nukes they're after, bring back the G8, exit Russia enter Scotland 🤣 No, silly me it's about the EU of course, exit the UK and re-enter the EU, bring on the Euro, just hope they are ok with waiting a few millenia for vaccines then

All joking aside, if that's what our Scots friends desire then who are we to stand in their way? And in the meantime we can all enjoy the fun and games as Sturgeon and Salmond rip each other apart....

Personally I suspect this public spat between two very unseemly characters will set Scottish independence back years. There's nothing the electorate likes less than power hungry self obsessives trying to pass themselves off as leaders, in my opinion.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 12:29
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Then Tubs had better be careful " Power hungry self obsessive" ring any bells?
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 12:46
  #199 (permalink)  
 
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There is the minor question of funding representation at international level. - such bodies as ICAO, ITU, CEN, CENELEC, CEPT, IPU, UIC, IMO. Plus they will need a 'SSI' or be stuck with BSI or CEN/CENELEC standards - which they will have little or no control over if they haven't had the necessary experts to make inputs - and they need to pay their dues to belong. OK, they can 'get away' for a while by ignoring these international standards bodies, but there are 'knock on' effects, especially with ITU and CEPT, because radio waves don't stop at international borders. Plus they will need to get suitably qualified people to staff the organisations that are needed to provide the representation - and to train those who are eventually going to take over. I don't say that you can't get such people, but it would probably be necessary to distort pay structures to do so, which may well cause problems with existing staff.

Then there is the cost of overseas representation with consulates and embassies. They will also need their own AAIB and RAIB and the maritime equivalent, all of which don't come cheaply. Presumably, their own defence forces too, and their own contribution to NATO. Of course, the RN pulling out of Faslane won't do a lot for the local economy, and if Rosyth loses the decommissioning of nuclear subs, there' another chunk of locale economy gone.

I have no doubt that there are many other 'hidden' costs...
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 12:54
  #200 (permalink)  
 
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It just makes you wonder how all these ountries like Iceand, New Zealand, Denmark etc ever exist if it is so impossible to do these things....
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