The crazy world of Porsche!
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Outer ring of HEL
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by Less Hair
Okay gentlemen what do you finally want? Some prestige sports car but cheap. And then you pick automatic because it is more convenient? I still don't get the requirement.
Isn't it something else you are looking for or should be?
Isn't it something else you are looking for or should be?
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,620
Interesting. This seems very similar to the Boeing 737/Airbus FBW debate !
I am genuinely curious. Have you, Less hair, ever owned and run an automatic car? Not just driven one once, but owned one for many years? And I refer to modern electronically controlled autos and DSGs, not the hideous Borg Warner 35 and 65 three speed autos.
You don't "get" autos, which is fair enough. I don't "get" those who want to have manual control all the time and won't trust a well developed and well sorted automatic system. Autos can get it wrong going down hills sometimes, but you can manually override. Did you ever commute into London or similar through long traffic jams?
As I have tried to explain, you can buy and run a Porsche Boxster for £10k or less, and have terrific fun - the auto adds class and smoothness on today's traffic ridden roads, and unless you are racing, it is absolutely fine. If you need to pick up your skirts and launch, the auto will do a better job than most drivers
I am genuinely curious. Have you, Less hair, ever owned and run an automatic car? Not just driven one once, but owned one for many years? And I refer to modern electronically controlled autos and DSGs, not the hideous Borg Warner 35 and 65 three speed autos.
You don't "get" autos, which is fair enough. I don't "get" those who want to have manual control all the time and won't trust a well developed and well sorted automatic system. Autos can get it wrong going down hills sometimes, but you can manually override. Did you ever commute into London or similar through long traffic jams?
As I have tried to explain, you can buy and run a Porsche Boxster for £10k or less, and have terrific fun - the auto adds class and smoothness on today's traffic ridden roads, and unless you are racing, it is absolutely fine. If you need to pick up your skirts and launch, the auto will do a better job than most drivers
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,181
Automatic transmission cars make up half of new cars sold in the UK and 96% of those sold in the USA. Older auto gearboxes increased fuel consumption and decreased performance, except for intermediate acceleration where the drop from third to second on kick down gave a bigger boost than going down a gear on a more closely spaced four or five speed manual.
Modern automatics give better performance and fuel economy than manual transmissions, which together with the convenience has seen sales grow from 20% to 50% over the last decade in Britain. Increasingly MT is becoming a cost cutting feature for entry level models and lower range brands. Soon it will be an anti theft measure as joyriders won’t know how to drive an MT car.
Modern automatics give better performance and fuel economy than manual transmissions, which together with the convenience has seen sales grow from 20% to 50% over the last decade in Britain. Increasingly MT is becoming a cost cutting feature for entry level models and lower range brands. Soon it will be an anti theft measure as joyriders won’t know how to drive an MT car.
Controversial, moi?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,596
Just for the fun and the motor braking.
Modern double clutch automatics function exactly like F1 car boxes with paddle shift if you change into manual mode.
Tartiflette Fan
Porsche do not slow production but, I am told by someone within a Porsche dealership, they control the number of cars entering the UK market.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: attitude is nominal
Posts: 1,322
I don't aim for any F1 feel and have not driven double clutch gearbox cars.
Porsche has a great museum at Zuffenhausen. When you see the collection it is like what happened to all those sexy small lightweight cars? Today some have become just heavy overloaded computer controlled monsters.
Porsche has a great museum at Zuffenhausen. When you see the collection it is like what happened to all those sexy small lightweight cars? Today some have become just heavy overloaded computer controlled monsters.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
Age: 60
Posts: 862
Less Hair
I agree with you the Zuffenhausen museum is indeed very good, and I agree the more modern Porsche we have had do seem overly complex compared with the 2003 Boxster S we have had since new. They are also significantly larger which you notice when up in the Dales for instance. The current 911 GTS has an Auto box, as have all the others I seem to re call but the Boxster is a manual. The costs of keeping the Boxster were reasonable (Circa £300 per year with main dealer) until it suffered the SMS Bearing issue which involved an engine re build which involved a large bill even with dealer and Porsche UK help. Like all some what exotic cars the bills are relative to the enjoyment. My normal car in the UK is a Volvo V90 CC and currently that needs a new rear light cluster (Warranty claim) but I bet that will not be cheap when the warranty expires either.
Cheers
Mr Mac
I agree with you the Zuffenhausen museum is indeed very good, and I agree the more modern Porsche we have had do seem overly complex compared with the 2003 Boxster S we have had since new. They are also significantly larger which you notice when up in the Dales for instance. The current 911 GTS has an Auto box, as have all the others I seem to re call but the Boxster is a manual. The costs of keeping the Boxster were reasonable (Circa £300 per year with main dealer) until it suffered the SMS Bearing issue which involved an engine re build which involved a large bill even with dealer and Porsche UK help. Like all some what exotic cars the bills are relative to the enjoyment. My normal car in the UK is a Volvo V90 CC and currently that needs a new rear light cluster (Warranty claim) but I bet that will not be cheap when the warranty expires either.
Cheers
Mr Mac
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 1,479
In IT land we have a running joke about a premium database systems supplier called Oracle: They don't have customers, they have hostages.
Seems like the premium car market is becoming much the same.
Re auto vs manual, if you follow tail lights to and from work every weekday then auto slush boxes are a godsend, however if you are fortunate to live in a part of the world with good roads and lots of mountains then a stick shift is a wonderful pleasure - and you don't need obscene amounts of power to appreciate that.
Seems like the premium car market is becoming much the same.
Re auto vs manual, if you follow tail lights to and from work every weekday then auto slush boxes are a godsend, however if you are fortunate to live in a part of the world with good roads and lots of mountains then a stick shift is a wonderful pleasure - and you don't need obscene amounts of power to appreciate that.
Controversial, moi?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,596
Oh how ironic it would be if your so desired car brand devalued and you complained how little your car was worth.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
Age: 60
Posts: 862
Less Hair
Just been told the rear light cluster for the Volvo has arrived, and will be replaced when I am back in the UK. I asked what the price would be if this failed out of warranty. I hope we are all sat down here, the part is £300 but they have to remove the rear bumper to fit it, so there is about 2 hrs labour which the gentleman said with VAT would cost around £500 for a taillight. He explained these are LED, and should comfortably exceed the design life of the car to which I pointed out my car (late 2019) has done 10k miles, and I was less than impressed. He made the point that ALL cars are moving to these LED light clusters rather than bulbs, as they are more reliable
I think we will all have significant cost increases associated with these new added bits of technology, never mind the electronic hand brakes !! I wish I had not got rid of the old V70 CC now though it had got to 80k miles but no issues, I am less than confident about its replacement when it gets to that mileage .
Cheers
Mr Mac
Just been told the rear light cluster for the Volvo has arrived, and will be replaced when I am back in the UK. I asked what the price would be if this failed out of warranty. I hope we are all sat down here, the part is £300 but they have to remove the rear bumper to fit it, so there is about 2 hrs labour which the gentleman said with VAT would cost around £500 for a taillight. He explained these are LED, and should comfortably exceed the design life of the car to which I pointed out my car (late 2019) has done 10k miles, and I was less than impressed. He made the point that ALL cars are moving to these LED light clusters rather than bulbs, as they are more reliable
I think we will all have significant cost increases associated with these new added bits of technology, never mind the electronic hand brakes !! I wish I had not got rid of the old V70 CC now though it had got to 80k miles but no issues, I am less than confident about its replacement when it gets to that mileage .Cheers
Mr Mac
Controversial, moi?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,596
A close friend has a body repair shop. He has just done a front end repair on a fairly new Mercedes S Class coupe. Apart from the new numper it required a new nearside headlight assembly because the plastic mounting points on the headlight were broken in the collision. The headlight assembly was just short of £2,000!
The high intensity rear lights on the E63 version of the BMW 6 series are mounted within the rear bumper and have simple filament bulbs. To replace a bulb requires removing the whole bumper.
It does all seem to be a little bit crazy.
The high intensity rear lights on the E63 version of the BMW 6 series are mounted within the rear bumper and have simple filament bulbs. To replace a bulb requires removing the whole bumper.
It does all seem to be a little bit crazy.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: attitude is nominal
Posts: 1,322
We (to be precise not me) have a brand new BMW 118i that has been last week's handover. The bumpers are made of hard plastic and painted. You can imagine how long this will last. Designed to generate repair business.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: attitude is nominal
Posts: 1,322
I like what Volvo had for the US market back then in the 80s or what. Good to bump without leaving any traces. This is needed for the rest of the world and it is not me who bumps on other people's cars.
Concerning Porsche they should again take mass market Volkswagens and build lightweight chassis for them combined with beefed up engines - and manual gears please. Lightweight fun cars not the heavy weight show off flottilla.
Concerning Porsche they should again take mass market Volkswagens and build lightweight chassis for them combined with beefed up engines - and manual gears please. Lightweight fun cars not the heavy weight show off flottilla.
Last edited by Less Hair; 24th Feb 2021 at 19:47.
