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All land rovers to be electric powered by the end of the decade

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All land rovers to be electric powered by the end of the decade

Old 21st Feb 2021, 06:00
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RVF750 View Post
We are on an Island too. 12x24m so a bit bigger, but our 24Kwh Leaf is all we need. No fancy type 2 socket, just the old three pin and it's fully charged next day. Never needed more range and the Island is becoming a refuge for the early short range Leafs from the bigger Island next door.

If you're out in the Desert environment, I don't know why a large roll out solar charging mat wouldn't be practical. If it was well designed that is.
A horsepower is 750 watts. A 4x6 solar panel is 300 watts optimal.
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Old 21st Feb 2021, 07:18
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FakePilot View Post
A horsepower is 750 watts. A 4x6 solar panel is 300 watts optimal.

You also have to factor in time. Say a vehicle draws a (fairly high) average power of about 12 kW and drives for two hours per day (the average power of my >400hp car is about 10 kW) . That means it needs about 24 kWh of generation each day to keep it going (2 hours actual driving time). A single 300 W panel in the desert is going to generate over 2 kWh/day (assuming only 200 W output per panel over 10 hours). Put twelve of them together in a small array and there's just about enough to provide that vehicle's energy requirements each day.
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Old 21st Feb 2021, 16:33
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting videos of electric Land Rover Defenders:



Somewhat more power than when they had diesel engines:

Green-laning in some Electric Defenders. So easy to drive off road due to the maximum torque from zero rpm and progressive throttle response. Wading depth is better than a diesel Defender due to sealed electrics. 450hp and 450NM of torque, gives 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and plenty of torque for towing. 3 limited slip diffs ensure power gets to the ground no matter what the conditions, on or off road. Range can be anything from 100 to 400 miles depending on battery pack options.
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Old 21st Feb 2021, 16:39
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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I see nothing special about that video.
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Old 21st Feb 2021, 16:57
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rogerg View Post
I see nothing special about that video.

How many Defenders have you seen doing 0 to 60mph in less than 5 seconds, as in the first seconds of the first video?
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 07:45
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Something that has yet to be considered in all this 'electrification' is that most places in the Third World do not have sufficient electricity, electrical grid, power stations, infrastructure or financial capability to provide electrical power as a basic human necessity to their populations. Never mind the additional supply necessary for electric cars. Take any of the 'stable' countries in Africa - power cuts are a weekly if not daily occurrence, and the majority of the population does not have access to electricity. Great that the West is going green, but that will leave the Third World even further behind.

Some road trips across Africa take you into pretty remote areas where electricity does not even exist now in the 21st Century - how on earth will anyone be able to reach these areas (WFP, MSF, WHO) with electric powered vehicles? Land Rover had a brilliant, unique product in the Defender that would go anywhere, carry anything and if it was unreliable, a road-side guy with a screwdriver and a spanner could and would fix it for a few dollars. Dent it - no problem, hammer it straight again. Want to add a gizmo, no problem - stick it on. That's something even Toyota can't do - but the Landcruiser has taken over where the Land Rover has left - but please do not think for one moment that a electric or computer controlled car will work in the Third World. Power for computer diagnostics doesn't exist, and neither can a guy on the street help sort out something when the all-seeing computer throws a wobbly.
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 09:10
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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How many Defenders have you seen doing 0 to 60mph in less than 5 seconds
Yes, that is impressive for city driving, but I can't see it being practical off-road, unless you like getting airtime. How many 2000+ kg Defenders can stop or corner adequately after just 5 seconds hard on the go juice? Now there is a road sharing problem for us all of the near future as not all of us are ace pilots.

There's an amateur 4x4 tv show I sometimes catch that is on before the show I really want to see and some of these enthusiast have traditional but souped up ICE 4x4 vehicles. On one stretch of road they had to build up speed to to get up a muddy hill, one vehicle was half way up at full power with all 4 wheels spinning and going nowhere, he would use the steering to prevent the vehicle from sliding backwards but that would take the vehicle off track so it needed constant counter steering. It was quite an impressive feat to watch this fight against gravity with all 4 wheels going flat chat on this slimy hill, unfortunately he didn't make it as his vehicle eventually slid off the track, into a ditch and fell on it's side.

I can't see traction control doing this either, if you've ever experienced such slimy mud you would know that you can't even walk on the stuff, but I can see this new Defender doing it easily if they built a ramp at the bottom.

Saw the new Land Rover in person the other day, it looked a bit on the ugly side to me, my first thought was that it shamelessly stole its styling cues from the Japanese. Very unoriginal.
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 09:52
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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RE: the military application of BEVs, don't forget the vastly reduced IR signature when you don't have to dump 2/3rds of the energy you're liberating from fuel as heat.

In the general population, I expect the ICE to last as long as horses did when ICEs came along. By 2030, 99% of people won't be buying noisy rattly reciprocating engines anymore.
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 10:41
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrasz View Post
This sums up the entire thread nicely. I've been going waaaay off the grid regularly for the past 20 years (various parts of the Sahara, sometimes 1500+ km from nearest surfaced road), always used Toyotas. My definition of a desertworthy vehicle: start the engine, then disconnect the battery (or take it out altogether) and see if it continues running. If yes, it goes. The defenders were considered a joke by anyone having some real experience going off-the road in Africa.
You do see Landrovers in Africa, mostly with the bonnet up, the last safari trip I did we did have a LR driving through a river bed the gearbox broke and we were collected by a new Hilux, having had both says it all.
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 10:42
  #110 (permalink)  

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The first Land Rover in the second video, CK54GDZ, is, according to DVLA, powered by a 2.2 Diesel engine.

Not really sure what that video is all about because I’d be totally confident of getting my 993cc, rear wheel drive petrol engined car up those tracks, they aren’t at all extreme for any vehicle with half decent ground clearance.
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 10:48
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by medod View Post
RE: the military application of BEVs, don't forget the vastly reduced IR signature when you don't have to dump 2/3rds of the energy you're liberating from fuel as heat.

In the general population, I expect the ICE to last as long as horses did when ICEs came along. By 2030, 99% of people won't be buying noisy rattly reciprocating engines anymore.
Noisy, rattly recips? What on earth are you driving, a ship diesel engine?
I'm hard pressed to hear my petrol engine running at all. Oh, wait. It's a hybrid.
Per
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 11:22
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.carboncommentary.com/blo...ingen-refinery

This is the future for Aviation, synthetic high density liquid fuel produced with electricity, either renewable or nuclear, it wonít be cheap but can replace fossil fuels when that time comes
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 18:25
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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The interesting part will be how much nuclear energy will be needed if and when mass demand turns to "green" energy? I'd say A LOT.
I am suspicious that the entire carbon campaign is some sort of PR masterpiece by the nuclear industry combined with the political will to avoid depending on middle eastern oil again in the future.
It's certainly not thought out by teenage girls.
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 18:50
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
You also have to factor in time. Say a vehicle draws a (fairly high) average power of about 12 kW and drives for two hours per day (the average power of my >400hp car is about 10 kW) . That means it needs about 24 kWh of generation each day to keep it going (2 hours actual driving time). A single 300 W panel in the desert is going to generate over 2 kWh/day (assuming only 200 W output per panel over 10 hours). Put twelve of them together in a small array and there's just about enough to provide that vehicle's energy requirements each day.
And that's the extremely optimistic usage scenario. I'm assuming a flat desert highway with no hills too, right? I mean, it's close for this scenario. A Telsa Long Range goes 353 miles on 82kwh. So going 60 mph would travel 353 in .... 5.8 hours. So 82/5.8 = is 14Kwh. Also this Tesla weights 4250 lbs!!! It weights almost as much as an SUV!
But I do appreciate you doing the math though - most people are just like sun = free free*infinitiy = free, therefore, free and clean!
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 18:57
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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I'd also like to mention that I'd like an electric SUV because of all the traction benefits it has. I do remember toy RC cars - if you connected reverse to short the motor, you got anti lock braking because the resistance of the motor increases with speed.
The traction systems are simpler and could be more effective, although I don't know how these particular vehicles are built. A separate motor for each wheel would vastly out perform fake 4wd systems. (True 4wd is you pick up the car and all four wheels spin).
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 19:33
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FakePilot View Post
. (True 4wd is you pick up the car and all four wheels spin).
I'm not sure what you mean by "true 4wd" but I'll take it that you mean there are limited slip differentials. Which actually means that all four wheels spin even though one wheel is in the air. (If car is in the air and all wheels hanging loose, there is no resistance difference which would require to limit the slip).
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 21:37
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Where is all this electricity to come from? We currently have enough spare to light a small Christmas tree and power stations are due to shut down. And if, by some miracle, we could generate enough how would we distribute it? Every street in the country would need to be recabled - and that's just for central heating since gas boilers must vanish soon, never mind cars and lorries. Am I the only person who knows this is all just hot air?
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 00:36
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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All the old Army Landrovers in Australia had Isuzu motors in them for reliability..Toyota are the way to go in all vehicles bar the Hilux which is on par with a few other crew cabs.A company in Belgium started making electric Toyotas years ago and now an Aus company has been licenced to modify them for underground mining.Motor in normal position,battery packs under tray and cabin ,gearbox removed,but power through the transfer case to all 4 wheels as before.....Only trouble the range is only around 100klm,which is ample for underground.
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 07:06
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FakePilot View Post
I'd also like to mention that I'd like an electric SUV because of all the traction benefits it has. I do remember toy RC cars - if you connected reverse to short the motor, you got anti lock braking because the resistance of the motor increases with speed.
The traction systems are simpler and could be more effective, although I don't know how these particular vehicles are built. A separate motor for each wheel would vastly out perform fake 4wd systems. (True 4wd is you pick up the car and all four wheels spin).
Motors in the wheels would be OK for low speed driving, more articulation and other benefits, no use for higher speeds, adding too much unsprung weight resulting in poor handling, 4 motors plus brakes, rims and tyres would be very heavy.
Hardcore 4x4 trucks can gave diff locks all round, although most donít have them on the front, itís very easy to break driveshafts - even uprated ones, rock climbing at speed puts immense shock loads on transmissions
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 07:06
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SandyYoung View Post
Where is all this electricity to come from? We currently have enough spare to light a small Christmas tree and power stations are due to shut down. And if, by some miracle, we could generate enough how would we distribute it? Every street in the country would need to be recabled - and that's just for central heating since gas boilers must vanish soon, never mind cars and lorries. Am I the only person who knows this is all just hot air?

Not really an issue. Been discussed here in one of the other threads about electric vehicles, at the moment we have enough spare off-peak generation and distribution capacity to run around 20 million electric cars on UK roads, doing the same mileage as they do now. Easy to check, just take a look at our massive excess of generation and distribution capacity outside the peak hours, which are mid-afternoon to early evening. Overnight charging would actually help the grid out, by reducing the need to pay generators to not generate, something that happens in the early hours from time to time, in order to balance the grid.
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