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US Politics Hamsterwheel V4.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel V4.0

Old 7th Aug 2021, 20:02
  #801 (permalink)  
 
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I read that as government intervention over the pandemic has buoyed up the market which would otherwise have crashed. Doesn't that create and preserve jobs?
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Old 7th Aug 2021, 20:06
  #802 (permalink)  
 
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When you find the data to prove that.....let me know. You enjoy research don't you?

When the Federal government pays you $600 a week to sit home....on top of your normal state funded unemployment....does that add any incentive to get off your butt and go back to work? When that money runs out....watch the jobs number take off!
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Old 7th Aug 2021, 20:10
  #803 (permalink)  
 
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Trump v Obama, Wahington Post's view
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/09/05/trump-obama-economy/

The
United States experienced some of its best years of job gains in 2014 and 2015 in Obama’s second term when the economy added more than 225,000 jobs a month. Employment continued to be strong under Trump — until the pandemic hit.

Average monthly job gains under Trump peaked at 193,000 in 2018. Economists call this very robust, especially given the recovery was nearly a decade old by then. But the devastation from the pandemic wiped out a decade’s worth of jobs gains in the spring.
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Old 7th Aug 2021, 20:38
  #804 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
If you look back at the situation that lead up to the disaster it was a Democrat controlled Congress that caused the crisis by means of Sub-Prime Mortgages and a runaway housing boom because of it
That really is a rarified and filtered interpretation of the crash SASless. It may be factually correct that the Democrats controlled Congress, but it is a leap of fancy to attribute the sub-prime mortgage to the Democrats. That is making a causal connection that reflects your political bias and is not am objective appraisal of the contributory forces over several administrations: It truly was a collective failure of the political class and both parties.

For several years during his reign, Greenspan kept giving lukewarm warnings that things might be getting over-heated, but there was no real monetary policy intervention to address the fundamentals, either because everyone had got drunk on growth and was winning (and probably thought it wouldn't come to an end); or they were too afraid to touch it in case they triggered a collapse. Personally I think the former; there was genuine naivety and way too many people took their eye off the ball in a poorly regulated environment. Even the naturally cautious Gordon Brown as chancellor of the UK became incautious in the heady climate that prevailed.

The de-regulation of the 1933 Stegall Act was done during Clinton's time in office. It is a popular alt right trope that Clinton de-regulated the financial sector and later regretted it because it caused the 2008 collapse. Well, that would be using some facts to effectively pass a few falsehoods: It was cross-party legislation that had broad and strong support that was signed off by Clinton. It also heralded in an era in which many people saw considerable personal wealth growth - as long as you were a stakeholder. The thing Clinton regretted was not having more regulatory protections which would have prevented the absurdities that later allowed the whole derivative debacle. But at the time, Clinton did not believe that he would get the support he needed to put in the regulatory mechanisms that would have protected against the worst excesses that later followed, because that would have been opposed by a powerful economic libertarian lobby residing primarily in the Republican camp. This should come as no surprise. That is what that wing of the party stands for.
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Old 7th Aug 2021, 21:04
  #805 (permalink)  
 
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Torque,

That is making a causal connection that reflects your political bias and is not am objective appraisal of the contributory forces over several administrations: It truly was a collective failure of the political class and both parties.
Lets see here....actions taken during Clinton's administration, actions taken during Bush's administration, and actions taken during Obama's administration.....all of which I mentioned.

By my count that is "several".....two Democrat and one Republican.

Where's the bias there TT?

Read down through this long list of notice given from the Bush Administration to the Democrats in Congress and the utter rejection of it all by Barney Frank, Harry Reid and others.

It is not bias....it is having lived through this and not just reading about it in the Guardian and hearing the BBC's version of events.

Check your own bias before you make accusations as you just did

https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archi...081009-10.html


July 2008
  • July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform legislation for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.
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    Old 8th Aug 2021, 07:45
      #806 (permalink)  
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    Originally Posted by SASless View Post
    Torque,

    Lets see here....actions taken during Clinton's administration, actions taken during Bush's administration, and actions taken during Obama's administration.....all of which I mentioned.

    By my count that is "several".....two Democrat and one Republican.

    Where's the bias there TT?

    Read down through this long list of notice given from the Bush Administration to the Democrats in Congress and the utter rejection of it all by Barney Frank, Harry Reid and others.

    It is not bias....it is having lived through this and not just reading about it in the Guardian and hearing the BBC's version of events.

    Check your own bias before you make accusations as you just did

    https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archi...081009-10.html




    Six years.....and when they see the Bus about to run over them....they act!


    SASless you are making false assumptions:

    I am not a Guardian reader
    Nor have I only experienced US politics “from afar“, having spent a considerable amount of time in the US, straddling a few administrations.
    Nor is it necessary to “be there“ to be informed or have an interest in a subject.
    The George Bush archives are a reflection of a history that he would like to be remembered and how; it is a good source of some information and sure to be a poor one of others.

    Now you quoted me, but you didn‘t quote the bit that matters, which was this: “It may be factually correct that the Democrats controlled Congress, but it is a leap of fancy to attribute the sub-prime mortgage (crisis) to the Democrats“

    I said this because you said the following: “It was a Democrat controlled Congress that caused the crisis by means of sub-prime mortgages and a runaway housing boom because of it“

    This is false attribution of causality. The factors involved in the sub-Prime crisis have their roots in regulation and monetary and fiscal policies which were the work of several administrations, both Democrat and Republican. This really should not be reduced to a blue or red blame game. A light touch regulatory environment in the financial sector had been the principle policy stance of both parties for decades. And then some people got too clever by far in retailing bad debt in absurd multiples, pretending that there was little risk. And no one wanted to listen to the few voices of disquiet because everyone was making a killing. Irrespective of party alliance.

    A friend of mine, who is a fund manager is a committed believer in a deregulated financial sector. After the housing crisis, he believed that the future lay in; guess what? Less regulation! Well, I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Pope is a Catholic. And we should understand that he will understand the world from that frame of reference, reality be damned.
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    Old 8th Aug 2021, 12:21
      #807 (permalink)  
     
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    Then do explain where the blame lies if I am wrong?
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    Old 8th Aug 2021, 14:07
      #808 (permalink)  
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    Originally Posted by SASless View Post
    Then do explain where the blame lies if I am wrong?
    Neither party. And both. Everyone went along thinking that they had arrived at some Valhalla of ever-increasing prosperity because it looked like it worked. That assumption proved catastrophically wrong.

    Finding a party or persons to blame is a distraction from the nature of the problem and solutions. The conditions which created the crash were the result of policies over which there was broad consensus: At the heart of those policies was light Touch regulation of financial markets, in the conviction that the market should be the arbiter of pretty much everything and the less regulation, the better. That proved to be fatally flawed because people in their ingenuity did things which were in their interests, but the summed consequences of which ultimately threatened the entire global financial system.

    The incredible thing is that even after it went truly teets up, some die hard ideologues STILL think more of the same is a good idea. Talk about learning difficulties.
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    Old 8th Aug 2021, 17:53
      #809 (permalink)  
     
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    The twisting, cheating con-artist is begging again.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-...maga-die-hards

    Get a TRUMP MAGA card bearing your own personal membership number! This card - costing only $50 - $5 000 contribution , you choose - shows that you belong to the MAGA club, and since you all have such busy lives doesn't burden you with fripperies like being able to buy things, or in fact ANYTHING AT ALL. You can relax safe in the knowledge that you are a card-carrying supporter of the REAL commander-in-chief.

    Contribute now so that you have that warm feeling of belonging for the longest possible time.
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    Old 8th Aug 2021, 18:07
      #810 (permalink)  
     
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    Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan View Post
    The twisting, cheating con-artist is begging again.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-...maga-die-hards

    Get a TRUMP MAGA card bearing your own personal membership number! This card - costing only $50 - $5 000 contribution , you choose - shows that you belong to the MAGA club, and since you all have such busy lives doesn't burden you with fripperies like being able to buy things, or in fact ANYTHING AT ALL. You can relax safe in the knowledge that you are a card-carrying supporter of the REAL commander-in-chief.

    Contribute now so that you have that warm feeling of belonging for the longest possible time.
    A sort of challenge coin for the gullible?
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    Old 8th Aug 2021, 20:22
      #811 (permalink)  
     
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    Ol' Orange Man....still got your knickers in a wad....don't ya'll think you have enough problems with your current PM and Royal Household Reality Show without trying to stir up a fuss in this thread?

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    Old 8th Aug 2021, 22:46
      #812 (permalink)  
     
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    Whataboutery is alive and well and living in the former colonies ...
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    Old 9th Aug 2021, 01:11
      #813 (permalink)  
     
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    A lack of relevancy is alive and well in old Europe. Trump is not President anymore. Time to move along.
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    Old 9th Aug 2021, 02:41
      #814 (permalink)  
     
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    A lack of relevancy is alive and well in old Europe. Trump is not President anymore. Time to move along.
    If you could assure me he won't "Be back" I could feel a lot better.
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    Old 9th Aug 2021, 03:20
      #815 (permalink)  
     
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    OK....he won't be back.....feel better now?
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    Old 9th Aug 2021, 08:32
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    Originally Posted by SASless View Post
    OK....he won't be back.....feel better now?
    I admire your optimism, but there seems to be a large chunk of the Republican Party trying to keep him onside just in case!
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    Old 9th Aug 2021, 08:44
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    No the Pumpkin still thinks he can run things. From the Telegraph today:

    DONALD TRUMP has said it would be very hard for him to endorse “anyone foolish enough” to vote in favour of the $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill, in a thinly veiled threat to Republican lawmakers up for election next year.

    The former president said the plan to fund the nation’s biggest investment in roads and bridges in decades was “a disgrace” and said it was a “gift to the Democrat Party”.

    Senator Bill Cassidy, a Republican negotiator on the bill, said as many as 18 members of his party have indicated that they will support it, which would ensure its eventual passage and could come as early as today.

    Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leader, has so far allowed the bill to progress, despite broadsides from the former president.

    Mr Trump said: “If Mitch McConnell was smart, which we’ve seen no evidence of, he would use the debt ceiling card to negotiate a good infrastructure package.”

    Politicians have spent the past week processing nearly two dozen amendments to the 2,700-page package, but so far none has substantially changed its framework.

    Senators have found common ground in the bill, even though it does not fully satisfy liberals, who view it as too small, or conservatives, who find it too large.

    It would provide federal money for projects many states and cities could not afford on their own and could create around 650,000 jobs, according to an estimate by Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics.

    The Senate is split 50-50 between Republican and Democrat senators, with Kamala Harris, the vice-president, having a deciding vote.

    However, for a bipartisan bill to pass, 60 votes are needed.

    “Joe Biden’s infrastructure bill will be used against the Republican Party in the upcoming elections in 2022 and 2024,” said Mr Trump.

    “It will be very hard for me to endorse anyone foolish enough to vote in favour of this deal.”

    Mr Trump’s power as kingmaker has been put to the test already in Ohio. His preferred candidate, Mike Carey, a coal lobbyist, beat a crowded field to win the Republican nomination to stand for a Congressional seat.
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    Old 9th Aug 2021, 11:51
      #818 (permalink)  
     
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    Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
    No the Pumpkin still thinks he can run things.
    There's other evidence out there the Orange one's influence has waned amongst the GOP, it seems as soon as you don't have a 24/7 media profile people start to forget about you:

    The U.S. Senate on Saturday agreed to advance President Joe Biden's $1.2 trillion infrastructure deal despite threats made by his predecessor Donald Trump.Eighteen Republicans said yes to the bill in a 67-27 vote, among them Roy Blunt, Shelley Capito, Bill Cassidy, Mitt Romney and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. The vote comes after months of negotiations.
    18 Republicans Vote to Advance Infrastructure Deal Despite Trump's Threats

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) ran narrowly ahead of former President Trump in a straw poll of potential 2024 candidates in a survey conducted over the weekend at the Western Conservative Summit in Denver.

    Of attendees who responded to the survey, 74.12 percent said they would approve of DeSantis for president in three years, compared with 71.43 percent who said the same of Trump. DeSantis won 275 votes, while Trump got 265.
    DeSantis tops Trump in 2024 presidential straw poll

    Donald Trump is having trouble selling advance tickets for his upcoming speaking tour with conservative pundit Bill O’Reilly, according to interviews with ticketing officials for the venues.

    For Trump’s Houston event with O’Reilly at the 19,000-seat Toyota Center, home to the NBA’s Houston Rockets, 60 to 65 percent of seats remain unsold, an employee with access to ticket sales information estimated. And in Sunrise, Florida, a box office employee at the BB&T Center said that they would have expected sales for the Trump-O’Reilly event there to have been “definitely higher” by now.
    Ticket sales are moving slowly for the coming Trump-O’Reilly stadium tour

    Voters in North Texas delivered an upset Tuesday, picking GOP state Rep. Jake Ellzey to fill a vacant House seat over a candidate endorsed by former President Donald Trump.

    Ellzey beat fellow Republican Susan Wright, the widow of former Rep. Ron Wright,53 percent to 47 percent, when the Associated Press called the low-turnout, Republican-vs.-Republican runoff. Though Ellzey was better funded, Wright leaned heavily on her backing from the former president, who often plays kingmaker in Republican primaries.
    Trump-backed candidate loses in Texas special election
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    Old 9th Aug 2021, 13:25
      #819 (permalink)  
     
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    Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post
    I admire your optimism, but there seems to be a large chunk of the Republican Party trying to keep him onside just in case!
    I was merely trying to be of some moral support to someone that needed some positive reinforcement and given the Orange Man's probability of winning a second Term is about evenly split....perhaps DeSantis shall prevail in 2024....bu that is a very long way away in Politics.

    I rarely if ever agree with Dr Dre....and I mean really....really...like almost never.... but his post is dead on target.

    In addition to the information Dr. Dre posted add in the fact that the Orange Man was never a Republican Insider.....he came from outside the traditional establishment ranks of Party Loyalists and immediately caused the Republican Elite to do everything they could to hamstring him.

    That continues today....but as the Democrats continue their march to the far left.....and cause serious economic and political harm to the country....that movement that installed the Orange Man is going to be re-invigorated....and we shall see either the Orange Man or someone very much like him in the way of Policy and Principles.....but much less coarse and far more Statesman like.

    That is where DeSantis has an advantage over the Orange Man.....he does not bring along so much excess baggage.

    In the meantime....the Left continues to rile the locals with their gross ignorance and rejection of Supreme Court Decisions of late...which is the best recruiting tool the Orange Man has going for him.

    https://jonathanturley.org/2021/08/0...m/#more-176909

    The Decision

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...0a169_4f15.pdf



    Last edited by SASless; 9th Aug 2021 at 14:47.
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    Old 9th Aug 2021, 17:35
      #820 (permalink)  
     
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    With all the talent there is in the GOP, surely there has to be someone, anyone, with more integrity and intellect than DeSantis?
    Answers on a postcard please.

    Talking of political weasels didn't Trump once bankroll Clinton and change sides several times?
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbe...h=28af50b4679e

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