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US Politics Hamsterwheel V4.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel V4.0

Old 21st Jan 2021, 20:36
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChrisVJ View Post
The Democrats tried to tear Trump down from even before he was in office and didn't stop for the whole four years.
It wasn't even 5 hours into the new presidency when Fox News began to spit toxic acid again, now over the members of administration. I was wondering, on election day and a while after this they had quite some moments of normal(!) criticism or even news in neutrality.

But yeah, back to the battle...
It’s Biden’s show now.
...happened to watch the last ridiculous "The Five" with their Slaughter Fest, including that bitter clown Gutsfeld Greg who just overdoing his sarcasmic acting that you think there's substances involved (I mean, I assume his role is Comedian, right?)
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Old 21st Jan 2021, 20:43
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by waito View Post
It wasn't even 5 hours into the new presidency when Fox News began to spit toxic acid again, now over the members of administration. I was wondering, on election day and a while after this they had quite some moments of normal(!) criticism or even news in neutrality.

But yeah, back to the battle... ...happened to watch the last ridiculous "The Five" with their Slaughter Fest, including that bitter clown Gutsfeld Greg who just overdoing his sarcasmic acting that you think there's substances involved (I mean, I assume his role is Comedian, right?)
How long is the honeymoon? What if CNN criticized him in the first days, is that ok then?
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Old 21st Jan 2021, 21:21
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
How long is the honeymoon? What if CNN criticized him in the first days, is that ok then?
There's no issue with anyone and any media criticizing the government in a civil manner, dear West Coast. I read about McConnell's worries of first day exec orders. Fine!

But those who continue them Madhouse TV certainly don't advocate unity. Division they seek.
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Old 21st Jan 2021, 21:24
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Looking from the out in, one of the more interesting policy, instead of personality, questions regards the immigration debate. Sure Fox and the like will spew venom, but what can/should on realistically do?

It seems to have been an issue all the way back to Reagan and no administration has solved it. It seems that people sneak into the U.S. for work. U.S. companies and individuals hire this workforce. A marriage made in heaven no?

Is it a problem that, other than a vocal segment of the population, the country really wants to solve. Can it be solved? Is it a problem or is it nothing more than the cheap labour everyone wants?

FWIW, I am of the opinion that should Biden try to push through an 11 million amnesty, then in 2022 he will lose both houses of Congress. He has a lot of work to do, not sure if this is in the top five.

Also, I thought one had to be a citizen to vote. Why do Fox and the like say he is giving the vote to the immigrants if he is "only" giving them a green card?
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Old 21st Jan 2021, 21:37
  #25 (permalink)  
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How many of you criticizing Trump or Biden actually voted for either candidate?

I want a show of hands here.

If you are sitting on your hands, please give it a rest until, say, a hundred days from now.

Or at least wait ten days.

It is hard to turn the ship of state, as it is large and ponderous.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 21st Jan 2021, 22:02
  #26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
Heard from a friend in Spain that they found a website saying Biden had allegations of a rather sensitive nature levelled against him a few years back but no charges were actually made and it was all hushed up.
To be honest, if you were to list all of the high up politicians in Europe and the USA, there would probably be a fair few of them that have had serious allegations made against them at some time in their professional careers.
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Old 21st Jan 2021, 22:45
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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I see no mention of today’s rioting in Portland on CNN. Obviously because it was lefty loonies rather than righty loonies. Are there any unbiased news organisations left in the US? Almost all mainstream news organisations are one eyed pro left, except Fox obviously which is one eyed pro right.
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Old 21st Jan 2021, 23:27
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc View Post
I see no mention of today’s rioting in Portland on CNN. Obviously because it was lefty loonies rather than righty loonies. Are there any unbiased news organisations left in the US? Almost all mainstream news organisations are one eyed pro left, except Fox obviously which is one eyed pro right.
Portland Arrests here. You must not be looking.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 00:05
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by visibility3miles View Post
How many of you criticizing Trump or Biden actually voted for either candidate?

I want a show of hands here.

If you are sitting on your hands, please give it a rest until, say, a hundred days from now.

Or at least wait ten days.

It is hard to turn the ship of state, as it is large and ponderous.

Thanks in advance.
Shall we lock this thread until the 100 days are up?
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 00:29
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
Shall we lock this thread until the 100 days are up?
4 years. More fun. The UK hamster resets then too!
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 00:40
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Are there any unbiased news organisations left in the US? Almost all mainstream news organisations are one eyed pro left, except Fox obviously which is one eyed pro right.
Credit given for recognizing the issue.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 00:41
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Was Hillary President? Did I miss that?
That only makes it worse.

Originally Posted by ChrisVJ View Post
Biden's call for unity is probably the most hypocritical thing I have ever heard. The Democrats tried to tear Trump down from even before he was in office and didn't stop for the whole four years. Now they ask for unity?
First of all, so did many of the Republicans, especially before Trump won the primaries. It was a bipartisan opinion that Trump was not fit to lead the country. And Trump's actions have repeatedly confirmed that they were right about him, even ignoring his recent outrageous behavior after he lost the elections. Some courageous Republicans kept saying their honest opinion about Trump even after he won. Other Republicans initially decided to give him the benefit of the doubt, and some tried to work with him, but many of them realized it's impossible. Which explains the huge personnel churn at the White House.

And many Republicans, including Trump, did the same to Hillary, both before and even after the 2016 elections, harping about her for years, even after she lost and was basically a nobody.

Anyway, too much of my time and energy has been consumed watching in disbelief all the crazy things Trump and those that remained around him did, so I can't wait for him to stop being a frequent topic of conversation. To help with that, in the future I'll try to refrain from making any more posts about Trump.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 00:55
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MikeSnow View Post
That only makes it worse.



First of all, so did many of the Republicans, especially before Trump won the primaries. It was a bipartisan opinion that Trump was not fit to lead the country. And Trump's actions have repeatedly confirmed that they were right about him, even ignoring his recent outrageous behavior after he lost the elections. Some courageous Republicans kept saying their honest opinion about Trump even after he won. Other Republicans initially decided to give him the benefit of the doubt, and some tried to work with him, but many of them realized it's impossible. Which explains the huge personnel churn at the White House.

And many Republicans, including Trump, did the same to Hillary, both before and even after the 2016 elections, harping about her for years, even after she lost and was basically a nobody.

Anyway, too much of my time and energy has been consumed watching in disbelief all the crazy things Trump and those that remained around him did, so I can't wait for him to stop being a frequent topic of conversation. To help with that, in the future I'll try to refrain from making any more posts about Trump.
Hillary as President makes it worse? I’m sure you’ll find some who agree with you.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 01:13
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc View Post
I see no mention of today’s rioting in Portland on CNN. Obviously because it was lefty loonies rather than righty loonies.
At least 8 arrested in Portland as demonstrators vandalize federal ICE building, Democratic Party state headquarters - CNN

Are there any unbiased news organisations left in the US? Almost all mainstream news organisations are one eyed pro left, except Fox obviously which is one eyed pro right.
Middle ground fallacy. Just because there are two sides of politics in the US doesn’t mean news organisations have to report it down the middle, and report one side which is basically full of lies is as valid as the other. If the left wing people in the US are mostly speaking the truth that doesn’t make media reporting that as left wing, it just makes them truthful.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 02:00
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Middle ground fallacy. Just because there are two sides of politics in the US doesn’t mean news organisations have to report it down the middle, and report one side which is basically full of lies is as valid as the other. If the left wing people in the US are mostly speaking the truth that doesn’t make media reporting that as left wing, it just makes them truthful.
You’d be better off accepting that the media is biased and developing a strategy to mitigate it. Burying your head in the sand is no way to move forward.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 02:44
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uncle Fred View Post
Looking from the out in, one of the more interesting policy, instead of personality, questions regards the immigration debate...... It seems to have been an issue all the way back to Reagan and no administration has solved it. It seems that people sneak into the U.S. for work. U.S. companies and individuals hire this workforce. A marriage made in heaven no?

Is it a problem that, other than a vocal segment of the population, the country really wants to solve. Can it be solved? Is it a problem or is it nothing more than the cheap labour everyone wants?

FWIW, I am of the opinion that should Biden try to push through an 11 million amnesty, then in 2022 he will lose both houses of Congress. He has a lot of work to do, not sure if this is in the top five.

Also, I thought one had to be a citizen to vote. Why do Fox and the like say he is giving the vote to the immigrants if he is "only" giving them a green card?
Taking those in reverse order:

- A Green Card does not make one a citizen, nor confer the right to vote. Fox (or whoever) garbled that, intentionally or otherwise. My wife (a Canadian) has live and worked in the US for over 50 years on a Green Card - she has never been allowed to vote.

- As to the 11 million, the alternative is to arrest and deport 11 miilion. Biden has already halted all deportations temporarily. I don't fully agree with your estimation regarding the effect on 2022 elections, but the USA has always been called "The Great Experiment," so I guess we'll find out. Always remember that the most recent major amnesty for illegal immigrants (3 million) was signed by - Ronald Reagan (1986). In 2007, George W. Bush supported a bill that would have provided a "path to citizenship" for 12 million - it did not pass the Senate.

Trying to keep a very complex issue brief:

1) The US birth rate is too low (<1.8 children per woman) to even maintain the population, let alone increase it (assuming it "takes two to tango." )
2) At the same time, improved medicine and other lifestyle effects (my mother played tennis to the age of 80) means the old are living longer.
3) Several "pay as we go" social programs for the elderly (Social Security "pensions," Medicare) are thus being strained by an increase in payees, while there is a decrease (or at least a smaller increase) in active workers paying in to support them.
3a) additionally, those programs were often created under actuarial assumptions that are no longer realistic - that clients would depend on them for 5-6 years, instead of 15-16 or more).
4) absent enough native births, the only way to keep up that system is immigration of working-age people who will pay into the system. (yes, a Ponzi Scheme of sorts, although backed by "the full faith and credit" of the Government).
5) to the extent that capitalism requires "permanent growth," capitalism also need a permanently increasing number of consumers (not just, or necessarily, workers). Or increasing international markets (read: globalized trade in which the US outsells everyone else - but that's another subject).

Summation - our population needs to keep growing (or something else has to give) - and immigration is the only way to do it.

6) The USA (and really, the whole Western hemisphere) has always been a land of immigrants. Before 1492 there were no Europeans or Africans living here. Before about 15-30000 years ago, there were no humans here at all. "Native Americans" immigrated across the Bering Strait from Asia at some point. Certainly, by the time of the founding of the USA, we were already a diverse population of European whites (mostly Scots/Irish/English), African black slaves, and the long-time native occupants. And lands that would become parts of the US (the Southwest) had Spanish/Mestizo occupants as early as 1600.
7) we never ceased to acquire other immigrants once we became a Nation: Asian, Irish, German*, Polish, Italian, Russian, Scandinavian, Jewish from throughout the Diaspora, and no doubt a hundred other nationalities or ethnicities. Of note, the first Attorney-General of the southern Confederacy was Judah P. Benjamin, a Jewish immigrant from the Danish West Indies (now part of the US Virgin Islands) - who also served as the rebel Secretary of War and Secretary of State. In acquiring overseas territories (States of Hawaii and Alaska, Territories of Puerto Rico and various Pacific islands) we acquired even more non-white, non-European citizens.
8) .......and we have never failed to have anti-immigrant political factions. The Native American Party (a.k.a. "Know-Nothings"), The American Protective Association, the KKK. Often primarily anti-Catholic (the Know-Nothings opposed slavery, however).

It is intriguing that the APA was sort of the QAnon of the 1890s - circulating false documents, including a forged "Papal Encyclical" that appeared to urge all Catholics to rise up and slay all heretics (Protestants). This may sound familiar:

...the Association ... believed that the Roman Catholic Church was making inroads into the government of the United States with the goal of controlling it. They said that Catholics had congregated in areas of large cities, preventing the election of non-Catholics in those areas, that 60% to 90% of government employees were Catholic, often illiterate and current and hired on the basis of patronage, [and made] attacks on the public school system, the "remarkable" increase in untaxed church property and the "fact" that the army and navy "were almost entirely Romanized," [that] there was "frequent desecration" of the American flag by priests, and [that] the federal government was controlled by the Jesuits.
9) It is the case that many Republicans (and many Democrats) believe some immigrants from Latin America are predisposed to vote Democratic. On the other hand, immigrants from Cuba helped give Trump his win in Florida. And with others being refugees from "Socialist Utopias" in Venezuela and Nicaragua, I am not sure how true that generalization is. But that, plus a "Nativist wing" and a "Chamber of Commerce Wing" in the GOP, has left it - conflicted - on the issue of immigration.
_________________
*German (not English) surnames are the most numerous names in the USA.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 04:29
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
At least 8 arrested in Portland as demonstrators vandalize federal ICE building, Democratic Party state headquarters - CNN



Middle ground fallacy. Just because there are two sides of politics in the US doesn’t mean news organisations have to report it down the middle, and report one side which is basically full of lies is as valid as the other. If the left wing people in the US are mostly speaking the truth that doesn’t make media reporting that as left wing, it just makes them truthful.
Fair point. But an issue not stated was not the reporting, but the creation of drama and news together. Typically by asking questions about are-you-ill-beating-your wife? and then to develop what ifs backed up by selected biased interviews.


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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 04:56
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Taking those in reverse order:

- A Green Card does not make one a citizen, nor confer the right to vote. Fox (or whoever) garbled that, intentionally or otherwise. My wife (a Canadian) has live and worked in the US for over 50 years on a Green Card - she has never been allowed to vote.

- As to the 11 million, the alternative is to arrest and deport 11 miilion. Biden has already halted all deportations temporarily. I don't fully agree with your estimation regarding the effect on 2022 elections, but the USA has always been called "The Great Experiment," so I guess we'll find out. Always remember that the most recent major amnesty for illegal immigrants (3 million) was signed by - Ronald Reagan (1986). In 2007, George W. Bush supported a bill that would have provided a "path to citizenship" for 12 million - it did not pass the Senate.

Trying to keep a very complex issue brief:

1) The US birth rate is too low (<1.8 children per woman) to even maintain the population, let alone increase it (assuming it "takes two to tango." )
2) At the same time, improved medicine and other lifestyle effects (my mother played tennis to the age of 80) means the old are living longer.
3) Several "pay as we go" social programs for the elderly (Social Security "pensions," Medicare) are thus being strained by an increase in payees, while there is a decrease (or at least a smaller increase) in active workers paying in to support them.
3a) additionally, those programs were often created under actuarial assumptions that are no longer realistic - that clients would depend on them for 5-6 years, instead of 15-16 or more).
4) absent enough native births, the only way to keep up that system is immigration of working-age people who will pay into the system. (yes, a Ponzi Scheme of sorts, although backed by "the full faith and credit" of the Government).
5) to the extent that capitalism requires "permanent growth," capitalism also need a permanently increasing number of consumers (not just, or necessarily, workers). Or increasing international markets (read: globalized trade in which the US outsells everyone else - but that's another subject).

Summation - our population needs to keep growing (or something else has to give) - and immigration is the only way to do it.

6) The USA (and really, the whole Western hemisphere) has always been a land of immigrants. Before 1492 there were no Europeans or Africans living here. Before about 15-30000 years ago, there were no humans here at all. "Native Americans" immigrated across the Bering Strait from Asia at some point. Certainly, by the time of the founding of the USA, we were already a diverse population of European whites (mostly Scots/Irish/English), African black slaves, and the long-time native occupants. And lands that would become parts of the US (the Southwest) had Spanish/Mestizo occupants as early as 1600.
7) we never ceased to acquire other immigrants once we became a Nation: Asian, Irish, German*, Polish, Italian, Russian, Scandinavian, Jewish from throughout the Diaspora, and no doubt a hundred other nationalities or ethnicities. Of note, the first Attorney-General of the southern Confederacy was Judah P. Benjamin, a Jewish immigrant from the Danish West Indies (now part of the US Virgin Islands) - who also served as the rebel Secretary of War and Secretary of State. In acquiring overseas territories (States of Hawaii and Alaska, Territories of Puerto Rico and various Pacific islands) we acquired even more non-white, non-European citizens.
8) .......and we have never failed to have anti-immigrant political factions. The Native American Party (a.k.a. "Know-Nothings"), The American Protective Association, the KKK. Often primarily anti-Catholic (the Know-Nothings opposed slavery, however).

It is intriguing that the APA was sort of the QAnon of the 1890s - circulating false documents, including a forged "Papal Encyclical" that appeared to urge all Catholics to rise up and slay all heretics (Protestants). This may sound familiar:



9) It is the case that many Republicans (and many Democrats) believe some immigrants from Latin America are predisposed to vote Democratic. On the other hand, immigrants from Cuba helped give Trump his win in Florida. And with others being refugees from "Socialist Utopias" in Venezuela and Nicaragua, I am not sure how true that generalization is. But that, plus a "Nativist wing" and a "Chamber of Commerce Wing" in the GOP, has left it - conflicted - on the issue of immigration.
_________________
*German (not English) surnames are the most numerous names in the USA.
Re 9. You cannot hold up the Cuban vote as representative of all Latino vote. The Cubans vote Republican, however Latino vote in the past several Presidential elections has gone solidly Democratic.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 07:08
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Re 9. You cannot hold up the Cuban vote as representative of all Latino vote. The Cubans vote Republican, however Latino vote in the past several Presidential elections has gone solidly Democratic.
Don't give up so easily : https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...tejanos-437027
_________
As to the surnames, it is complicated.

There are a lot of Joneses and Johnsons and Williamses in the US - but that is just three distinct names. Whereas Heidkamp, Heitkampf, Heidkamph, Heitkamp, or Heidtkamp would get counted as 5 or more distinct Germanic names. All those darn consonants to choose from.

There were a lot of fully-assimilated Jews in Germany before the Shoah, with Germanized names (and proud of them). Brandt, Bauer, Brenner, Feuerstein - all both Germanic and Azhkenazi-Jewish. Which would get counted as Germanic whether the holders cared to be associated with Germany or not.

Then filter all that through the ebb and flow of wars across central Europe: Germany, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Alsace/Lorraine, Poland, Bohemia - and elsewhere. Wasn't the British Royal Family the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha at one time? Wasn't Lord Mountbatten born Prince Louis von Battenberg?

Then filter all that through names anglicized or germanized at Ellis Island, for convenience or out of ignorance. Or anglicized during the World Wars out of fear of disdain: Feuerstein > Firestone > Forrest. Still of German origin, though.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 08:11
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Don't give up so easily : https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...tejanos-437027
_________
As to the surnames, it is complicated.

There are a lot of Joneses and Johnsons and Williamses in the US - but that is just three distinct names. Whereas Heidkamp, Heitkampf, Heidkamph, Heitkamp, or Heidtkamp would get counted as 5 or more distinct Germanic names. All those darn consonants to choose from.

There were a lot of fully-assimilated Jews in Germany before the Shoah, with Germanized names (and proud of them). Brandt, Bauer, Brenner, Feuerstein - all both Germanic and Azhkenazi-Jewish. Which would get counted as Germanic whether the holders cared to be associated with Germany or not.

Then filter all that through the ebb and flow of wars across central Europe: Germany, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Alsace/Lorraine, Poland, Bohemia - and elsewhere. Wasn't the British Royal Family the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha at one time? Wasn't Lord Mountbatten born Prince Louis von Battenberg?

Then filter all that through names anglicized or germanized at Ellis Island, for convenience or out of ignorance. Or anglicized during the World Wars out of fear of disdain: Feuerstein > Firestone > Forrest. Still of German origin, though.
Do you deny the Latino vote in the past couple of Presidential elections hasn’t gone solidly Democratic? It’s a yes or no question.
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