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The Beginnings of a Police State?

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The Beginnings of a Police State?

Old 16th Sep 2020, 18:43
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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It's the selective enforcement that scares me. It does open the path for a fascist style government where enforcement is taken against those the government dislikes, while ignoring the behavior of the 'chosen'.
Around here, the government prosecutors have decided not to enforce most of the illicit drug laws. As a result, I could go out and sell Crystal Meth or Crack Cocaine to high school students with relative impunity.
But God help me if I forget to bring my mask when I go out to buy groceries...
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 19:15
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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I have always wondered what the definition is of a 'Police State.' Or rather what would be the personal indications?

Perhaps it is stop and search without a suspicious event?
Or is it if you can be randomly stopped, say at a road block checking for DUI?
Or maybe if you don't feel safe when stopped or accosted by the police?
Or is it just if the police are making the final decision about keeping you in jail?

Maybe it is the level of intrusiveness of authority, can they enter your house without a warrant or grant the warrant to themselves? At what level can they watch you in the street as you go about your lawful business. (With facial recognition today they really don't need to stop you to identify you!)

How unlawful or violent does society have to be to justify watching everybody all the time? What level of crime are we willing to put up with to avoid that?

Last edited by ChrisVJ; 17th Sep 2020 at 17:04.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 19:20
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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. Maybe it is the level of intrusiveness of authority, can they enter your house without a warrant or grant the warrant to themselves?
If you're in the UK I've got some bad news for you!
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 19:30
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Some people are beginning to see the writing on the court docs, that they can't enforce a police state. Thus, the secret complainers have no voice and will probably will just duke it out with their neighbors. However, there is still room for private igroups to set standards that may be enforced by fines or banishment from the group. e.g airlines, stores, bars, etc.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 19:38
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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tdracer, do you wear a mask when you score your crack?

Here in the UK, many criminals are caught and convicted using CCTV footage as evidence. Police can monitor trouble spots and get to the scene quickly. Criminal activity can be monitored by ANPR. All this surveillance has it's benefits.
As long as you are not doing anything illegal, why let it bother you?
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 20:52
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hiflymk3 View Post
As long as you are not doing anything illegal, why let it bother you?
There are so many laws - many centuries old that few even know exist - that it's been determined the average 'law abiding' citizen breaks several laws per day without ever knowing it.
With selective enforcement and constant surveillance, a malevolent government could simply go out and legally arrest anyone and everyone that doesn't toe the party line.
That's why constant surveillance should both you...
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 21:26
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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'A malevolent government'. What here in the UK or the US? Oh... wait a minute...

Seriously though, I do understand the fear of government Big Brother.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 21:29
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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If the UK government are determined to install a Police state, the systematic dismantling of the Police from pay and conditions through to numbers and resources would seem to be an odd path to take wouldn't it?
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 21:34
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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There are so many laws - many centuries old that few even know exist - that it's been determined the average 'law abiding' citizen breaks several laws per day without ever knowing it.
Could you specify, oh, I don't know, let's say 3 such laws? Please.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 22:11
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack View Post
I was listening to a radio phone in earlier whilst out walking and these points were being raised. The lovely Priti Patel admitting that she'd dob her neighbours in as her duty brought a good bit of flak, many citing her trip to Israel when a minister and not dobbing herself in due to it's illegality in regards to her then position.

Some callers were concerned that this was the first step towards a DDR 2.0, others said they'd ignore it if they saw it, others said it would depend on how many over the magical '6' it was. One very distressed and angry caller had just driven slowly past a primary school in Redhill where there was 'over 100' parents in a massive group all gassing away after morning drop-off. The caller said that they'd been shielding for the last 6 months and to see such cavalier behaviour from responsible adults (parents of children) was enraging. They were ready to call the police, but called the radio instead!

You'd hope that people wouldn't need to be told how to conduct themselve responsibly for the greater good, but I think that there are just too many of the population who have little or no common sense and can only think of themselves and their needs. In this regard the UK seems to fail miserably against many other countries where a sense of national togetherness pulls people together for the greater good.
Patel is the most effortlessly thick politician of her generation, considering the subterranean level set by this cabinet, thatís a real achievement!
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 23:33
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by axefurabz View Post
Could you specify, oh, I don't know, let's say 3 such laws? Please.
Have you ever had sex out of wedlock, or in an 'unusual' manner? In many parts of the US that would make you a criminal (can't speak for the UK). Doesn't help that we have lawmakers who pass 2000 page bills with only a vague idea of the details. Many everyday business practices that we take for granted were outlawed at one time - and those laws were never changed and are still on the books.
Laws that were put into place hundreds of years ago, but never changed.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 02:44
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Worse, government has passed laws that are poorly drawn and can be taken by authority to mean things they were not intended to. Personal Bete Noir, here.

I hear people saying of a proposed law "Oh, that doesn't mean the police have to enforce it is such a situation as. . . . .," which means that inevitable at some stage the police will do exactly that.

Laws, for instance to criminalise people trafficking being used to prosecute someone who (legally) bring a personal maid into the country when the maid later does not like her t&cs.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 10:24
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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A view expressed to me by a well respected ancient observer is that the "path" is through a force of "Marshals". The NWO have been using the UN to train for readiness, this force for a long time now. Flow into Oz already observed by flts going in there from China. (sorry but, yeah, "good mate of mine" works at the airport ) Bojo has already spoken of his "peacekeeping" Force idea, hasn't he ?

New wave coming, increased lock-downs (now , probably "enforced") all coming our way dear folks. Many been saying this for a l o n g time now. CV-19 being used by cynical governments in order to exploit a new world order of social control seems a very likely point of view, to moi .

VP959, crikey. You must be feeling better (good), listened to my advice to take a breather (no masks pleeeeze), because you are sounding a bit more reasonable on this thread.

Finally, well this is JETBLAST ; glad to have Corrie & Easties back but am I the only one larfing me head-off at all those sillies wearing even sillier masks and not knowing quite what to do with them ?
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 13:00
  #54 (permalink)  
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Maybe it is the level of intrusiveness of authority, can they enter your house without a warrant or grant the warrant to themselves?
The UK "Police State" is nothing new. That takes me back to Heathrow in 1976. The police were stopping cars and BA vehicles anywhere within the airport, using powers under the Prevention of Terrorism Act and if they found anything belonging to the airline in one's possession they arrested you and took you to Heathrow police station. They then obtained a search warrant and turned up at your house to conduct a search. Vehicles transporting maintenance staff from the maintenance area to Central Area at the start of shift were stopped and everybody was searched - tool boxes open and if you had any BA tools, locking wire, tubes of RTV3145 sealant etc. that was enough to be arrested on suspicion of stealing. In the end, BA was reduced to bussing people around the airport in their street clothes with empty pockets, while their toolboxes, spare parts, overalls and cold weather clothing was locked in the back of a van and sent separately

Literally hundreds of people had their homes raided in the dead of night without explanation while they used the terrorism legislation to look for the culprits

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Old 17th Sep 2020, 14:01
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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A voting system that isn't rigged
Would that it were so !! A system which enables an unelected branch of government to modify specific areas which are acknowledged to affect the GE outcome by up to TWENTY seats would, I would suggest, constitute 'rigging' were it to be used in anywhere other than this hypocritical environment; as should the same system, which 'converts' actual votes cast in aggregate, into a totally false representaive value.
Some enthusiasms expressed by other contributors have lauded the social value represented by the 'licenced trade'. No reason why they shouldn't, but those of an analytical bent might care to consider the following extract from the Crown Prosecution Office - and its relevance or not.
"The main effect of psychoactive substances is on the person's brain, the major part of the central nervous system. By speeding up or slowing down activity on the central nervous system, psychoactive substances cause an alteration in the individual's state of consciousness by producing a range of effects including, but not limited to: hallucinations; changes in alertness, perception of time and space, mood or empathy with others; and drowsiness."
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 14:20
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
Have you ever had sex out of wedlock, or in an 'unusual' manner? In many parts of the US that would make you a criminal (can't speak for the UK). Doesn't help that we have lawmakers who pass 2000 page bills with only a vague idea of the details. Many everyday business practices that we take for granted were outlawed at one time - and those laws were never changed and are still on the books.
Laws that were put into place hundreds of years ago, but never changed.
Not a problem for me I wear a mask while having sex

(Cpap)
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 16:18
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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"If you see something, say something."

"Look Out - Sabotage (Image of snake) - Scotch this by being Always Alert. Report suspicious people and things at once" (WW2 British warning poster).

Terror deaths in the UK since 1970 - about 4000

Covid deaths in the UK in 2020 - about 41700 (thus far)

Civilian WW2 casualties in the UK over five years - about 70000

This is a war, folks. With a fifth column of deniers and ignorers contributing to the toll.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 17:14
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Number of influenza deaths in a cold Winter? Number of Covid deaths that were not largely due to co-morbidity?
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 17:25
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Ennnh!

Is it likely or unlikely that co-morbidity or age contributed to some outcomes of a shrapnel wound/infection in the Blitz? Or achieve self-evacuation from a bombed house? Or even just an inability to run fast enough?

Do you want to reduce the 70000 by that amount? Do you want to tell our British friends to do that?

"Sorry, mates - it was a pre-existing condition, not the German V-2."
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 17:31
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChrisVJ View Post
Number of influenza deaths in a cold Winter?
Here's the England influenza death data for the last few years:



Looks like in a bad year influenza causes around 28,000 deaths, so it seems probable that Covid-19 might cause very roughly double the number of flu deaths that we see in a bad year.

Originally Posted by ChrisVJ View Post
Number of Covid deaths that were not largely due to co-morbidity?
Hard to pin this down. I've had a look through the easily accessible data, and it's not broken out. If I had to guess, then based on what was happening at the time when we were seeing the highest number of deaths, I'd suggest that it's likely that most of them were people that had some form of co-morbidity. Perhaps the most useful measure might be to try and determine how many years of useful life were lost specifically due to this disease. Not sure how to do that from the limited data that's in the public domain at the moment.
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