Hong Kong -- What does the future hold?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 11,317
Interesting points dr dre. You do wonder how much those factors you highlight are outweighed by restrictions on civil liberties though?
Hong Kong GDP per capita is 20% higher than the UK
COVID death rate approx 600 times higher in UK
Average Life Expectancy 3.5 years longer in HK
Crime (murder) rate 45% lower in HK than the UK
About double the number of hospital beds per capita in HK
Better food.....
COVID death rate approx 600 times higher in UK
Average Life Expectancy 3.5 years longer in HK
Crime (murder) rate 45% lower in HK than the UK
About double the number of hospital beds per capita in HK
Better food.....
― Alexis de Tocqueville
“As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air – however slight – lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.” ― Supreme Court Justice William Douglas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,120
I worked in China on and off for fourteen years. I found it a pleasant place to live and all my Chinese friends didn't seem to mind either. I never discussed politics and from what I gathered nobody else did because they were too busy setting themselves up in life.
The streets were clean, as were the taxis and buses. I had my pocket picked twice without my knowing which is better than being mugged. Rape is still a capital offence and so is kiddy fiddling which means that your daughters are fairly safe.
I always had the feeling that I had more personal freedom in China than I did in this politically correct United Kingdom.
The streets were clean, as were the taxis and buses. I had my pocket picked twice without my knowing which is better than being mugged. Rape is still a capital offence and so is kiddy fiddling which means that your daughters are fairly safe.
I always had the feeling that I had more personal freedom in China than I did in this politically correct United Kingdom.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
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Originally Posted by ORAC
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” ― Benjamin Franklin
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Posts: 19,237
Originally Posted by N707ZS
The Brexit fans are going to love the idea of three million Hong Kong folk coming to the UK.
I'm a brexit fan and I totally agree with it, we made promises and agreements with China over the population of Hong Kong, China has decided to renege on that deal, so it is totally right for the U.K. to support those people, otherwise what would our word mean in the rest of the world.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
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Originally Posted by dr dre
It's Asian culture. Individual rights are placed below the collective well being. The quotes of Ben Franklin, Jefferson, Washington and others on "liberty and freedom" won't hold sway with a Chinese audience as much as teachings from Chinese philosophers that emphasize collective group harmony over individual freedoms.
Asian culture is changing as evidenced by a whole lot of Asians protesting in HK recently. Cultural norms shift, in other cases shackles placed upon a society who were accustomed to certain freedoms are rejected.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,732
Originally Posted by Fareastdriver
I worked in China on and off for fourteen years. I found it a pleasant place to live and all my Chinese friends didn't seem to mind either. I never discussed politics and from what I gathered nobody else did because they were too busy setting themselves up in life.
The streets were clean, as were the taxis and buses. I had my pocket picked twice without my knowing which is better than being mugged. Rape is still a capital offence and so is kiddy fiddling which means that your daughters are fairly safe.
I always had the feeling that I had more personal freedom in China than I did in this politically correct United Kingdom.
The streets were clean, as were the taxis and buses. I had my pocket picked twice without my knowing which is better than being mugged. Rape is still a capital offence and so is kiddy fiddling which means that your daughters are fairly safe.
I always had the feeling that I had more personal freedom in China than I did in this politically correct United Kingdom.
There’s a reason many residents of HK are protesting, it’s not because they had their pockets picked.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,269
Originally Posted by West Coast
Asian culture is changing as evidenced by a whole lot of Asians protesting in HK recently. Cultural norms shift, in other cases shackles placed upon a society who were accustomed to certain freedoms are rejected.
HKers only represent 0.4% of China’s population anyway. And not all of them agree with the protests. There has been a drop in support for the protesters in recent months. I have a feeling this protest movement will die out once the majority of HKers see they won’t be affected by the new law.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,732
Originally Posted by dr dre
No it’s not. Protests have always happened in Asian culture. Disagreement isn’t uncommon. But it’s very hard to overturn 2500 years of philosophy and teaching that emphasises deference to elders and a collectivist mindset.
HKers only represent 0.4% of China’s population anyway. And not all of them agree with the protests. There has been a drop in support for the protesters in recent months. I have a feeling this protest movement will die out once the majority of HKers see they won’t be affected by the new law.
HKers only represent 0.4% of China’s population anyway. And not all of them agree with the protests. There has been a drop in support for the protesters in recent months. I have a feeling this protest movement will die out once the majority of HKers see they won’t be affected by the new law.
You support the new law?
Join Date: Nov 2018
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Originally Posted by dr dre
No it’s not. Protests have always happened in Asian culture. Disagreement isn’t uncommon. But it’s very hard to overturn 2500 years of philosophy and teaching that emphasises deference to elders and a collectivist mindset.
HKers only represent 0.4% of China’s population anyway. And not all of them agree with the protests. There has been a drop in support for the protesters in recent months. I have a feeling this protest movement will die out once the majority of HKers see they won’t be affected by the new law.
HKers only represent 0.4% of China’s population anyway. And not all of them agree with the protests. There has been a drop in support for the protesters in recent months. I have a feeling this protest movement will die out once the majority of HKers see they won’t be affected by the new law.
I had a dear friend who was prepared to confide in me regarding her experiences living in Paris during WW2. The overwhelming fear of the banging on the door at 2:00 AM, trying to use a domestic radio to hear the BBC while another child kept a watch by the window for the detector vans, and gestapo. Since she was not actively engaged in the resistance (but had knowledge of people who were). She and her parents had to be prepared to take the ultimate step to protect others.
Times and technology have changed the more modern version of Hong Kong, but I have no confidence that these latest shenanigans will calm the nerves of the majority. Of course many will be looking to escape if they can, and should be given every assistance by other nations.
IG
Last edited by Imagegear; 10th Jul 2020 at 07:51.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South Korea
Age: 59
Posts: 119
I have lived and worked in foreign countries for the best part of my career, mainly in Asia, including a few years in China but also in North America. While working on sites in central China I could go for months and never see another Western person. I loved it, great, friendly, smart, people and very interesting culture. I spent lots of time talking about political issues and key political events with my Chinese colleagues and I can start to understand the different interpretations of these events. Sure, in China there are sedition laws etc and you are not allowed to criticise the government. This is something Chinese people are used to and they live with it. Just like US people live with gun violence. I know Chinese people who have criticised the government and the police are not heavy handed. Maybe they get a talking to and provided they are apologetic it’s not an issue. I know US people will not understand this. I also had a great time in the US. When I first went to the US many years ago an elderly black lady was extremely hospitable and went out of her way to help me navigate Los Angeles. I also spent time in Taiwan.
These countries have different cultures. They have different importance’s. There are good points and bad points. Overall, they balance out. If you weigh up the good and the bad there is not much difference. Sure, in China the internet access is a bit of a hassle, but you can roam the streets late at night with no worries. In the US the internet is great but one must be careful roaming the streets at night. Chinese people don’t think much about the internet because they are used to it. People from the US don’t think too much about street safety at night because they are used to it. People are adaptable. Most Chinese people are proud of being Chinese. Most US people are proud of being US. I have an American friend who wanted to visit China. I asked him why he wanted to visit China. He said with a smile on his face “Because China is crazy.” I have a Chinese friend who wants to visit New York. I asked her why she wants to visit New York. With a smile on her face she said “Because New York is crazy”.
I don’t particularly agree with the new laws in Hong Kong but as usual anything Chinese is blown out of proportion by the US because China threatens US hegemony. Yes, people’s lives in Hongkong will change. I can understand why they don’t want these changes. Hongkong people have adapted to the Western culture. I can feel their pain. However, is this much different to the changes the native American people have to go through. I am not saying I agree or disagree with any of this or that it is good or bad. A good way to improve these situations is to gain some understanding. I’m just trying to pass on another side of the story and you can listen if you wish. Cheers
These countries have different cultures. They have different importance’s. There are good points and bad points. Overall, they balance out. If you weigh up the good and the bad there is not much difference. Sure, in China the internet access is a bit of a hassle, but you can roam the streets late at night with no worries. In the US the internet is great but one must be careful roaming the streets at night. Chinese people don’t think much about the internet because they are used to it. People from the US don’t think too much about street safety at night because they are used to it. People are adaptable. Most Chinese people are proud of being Chinese. Most US people are proud of being US. I have an American friend who wanted to visit China. I asked him why he wanted to visit China. He said with a smile on his face “Because China is crazy.” I have a Chinese friend who wants to visit New York. I asked her why she wants to visit New York. With a smile on her face she said “Because New York is crazy”.
I don’t particularly agree with the new laws in Hong Kong but as usual anything Chinese is blown out of proportion by the US because China threatens US hegemony. Yes, people’s lives in Hongkong will change. I can understand why they don’t want these changes. Hongkong people have adapted to the Western culture. I can feel their pain. However, is this much different to the changes the native American people have to go through. I am not saying I agree or disagree with any of this or that it is good or bad. A good way to improve these situations is to gain some understanding. I’m just trying to pass on another side of the story and you can listen if you wish. Cheers
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 11,317
A whole lot of shoulder shrugging when dealing with someone else’s freedoms.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,120
Personally thinking: Should my government lift my country from being one of the most backward and poverty stricken states in the World to be the 3rd largest economy in only forty years I would be very pleased with it.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 11,317
Personally thinking: Should my government lift my country from being one of the most backward and poverty stricken states in the World to be the 3rd largest economy in only forty years I would be very pleased with it.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,120
If I was an ordinary Chinese citizen I would know about it and if I did i wouldn't care a damn.
That's not accusing the Chinese of being racialist but a feature of their culture is that if things are going their way than they do not care about anything else.
That's not accusing the Chinese of being racialist but a feature of their culture is that if things are going their way than they do not care about anything else.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not where I want to be
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Originally Posted by ORAC
You mean the one that kept them there for the previous 40 which included the "cultural revolution" which killed up to 20 million people? And which is currently committing genocide amongst the Uighur?
Per
