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When did the British public become so disgusting?

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When did the British public become so disgusting?

Old 27th Jun 2020, 11:12
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When did the British public become so disgusting?

Today it is Liverpool, yesterday it was Cardiff and earlier in the week it was Bournemouth (my home town). Pictures of the rubbish strewn around after revellers have had their fun are making me wonder who my Ďneighboursí are.

Can anyone offer any insight as to why the post lockdown public seem to be even more inconsiderate and disgusting than they were several months ago?

I work overseas and love to go back to Britain as often as possible but Iím increasingly wondering if I truly miss it.

BV
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 11:35
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I wonder where these people learned their behavior?

When I am out jogging, I see filled pet poo-bags hanging from bushes or put on walls. Who do the owners think are going to pick them up? Music festivals are left with abandoned tents etc that people cannot be bothered to take home, or even put in a bin. Why do these people think this is acceptable, and who taught them this behavior?

Why do these people want to make the place look like a sh*t hole? Why have they got no pride?

A young chap was driving a narrowboat along the (idyllic) canal yesterday. He had music blasting out. I told him to turn it down and he refused.

Why do people think is it acceptable to spit at police or the emergency services. Park illegally, and be antisocial?

Where was all this behavior learned from?
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 11:45
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Much discussion on a neighbourhood discussion forum I inhabit. All of our local parks and beautiful open spaces have become a monument to this form of anti-social behaviour; beer cans, plastic bottles and packaging, fast food wrappings, barbecue remnants, nitrous oxide canisters/toy balloons, used nappies and, increasingly, used gloves and faces masks. Much of the trash is recyclable.

From my observations it's mostly (but not always) younger people who seem to be the culprits. For example, last weekend I saw a large group of 50 or more teens/twenty-somethings in a local park complete with a gazebo, loads of drink, food, loud music, etc and totally ignoring social distancing of course; I heard later that even the gazebo was left junked where they'd been sitting although they had at least bin bagged up their trash, why not take it to the car park where there are disposal facilities or even - shock horror - take it home with you and recycle the bottles/cans?

Several times recently I've seen a middle-aged lady resignedly walking around my local rec with a bin bag and gloves picking up the detritus - when I thanked her, she said "I just can't bear to see it like this"...

I met up with two friends for a socially distanced chat in a local open space last week; we each had 4 pints of takeout beer and some crisps with us, all rubbish was carried home for disposal/recycling.

I thought younger people were supposed to care far more about our planet than those of us who have preceded them? An odd way of showing it...
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 11:53
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Treadigraph

There is no doubt in my mind that it is, overwhelmingly, younger people leaving most of the rubbish. However, as Uplinker said, they had to learn it from somewhere. Or more likely learned the lack of consequences of their actions from somewhere.

For that Iím afraid you canít look solely at the younger generation.

I am 43 and wouldnít dream of littering, ever. I work in Oman and littering is common but I steadfastly refuse to stoop to their level.

Additionally, if I saw my kids dropping litter they would be left in no doubt how unacceptable it is.

I donít know the answer to the problem but maybe the first step is to admit there is a problem.

BV
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 11:57
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When did the British public become so disgusting?
Probably started about the time they stopped National Service.
Lockdown (release) has just speeded up the process.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 11:57
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Gravity reversal?
On the hills, I find that many walkers have the strength to carry full cans, bottles, oranges, bananas, etc. UP, but find it too much effort to pull the empty cans/bottles/skins back DOWN again.
And the idyllic picnic spots are left as a rubbish dump - and who wants to picnic on a rubbish dump?
It's pure selfishness.
So, the slogan "Picking up your litter risks road workers lives" is water off a duck's back to these people.
Try the slogan "Spending money on picking up your litter means we can't fix the potholes, which is why you need four new tyres and wheels"
Or something snappy like that
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 11:59
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I'm totally disgusted at the way this country is going. Demonstrations getting out of hand, sculptures being removed, BLM folk dancing on police cars smashing them up, the list is endless. Our poor police force cannot do anything for fear of reprisals but stand back and get injured. Ministers saying how disgusting this behaviour is but not taking any action. I remember when Boris was Mayor selling the water cannons for scrap at a huge loss. Lets bring them back and use them where necessary.

Welcome to New Britain the 'Great' has well and truly gone!
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 12:03
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It is a very real and practical problem I thought that, apart from parents, schools were supposed to teach all this sort of thing, for decades now. It would be nice to see the police being directed into addressing this sort of behaviour instead of the current PC obsessions, and the perps given community service orders requiring them to clear up such trash. I suppose that in the case of somewhere such as Bournemouth beach - which is always bad near the pier every year, never mind the recent influx of the great unwashed - it is a question of identifying specific culprits. It would be nice to have the army round the whole lot up - guilt by association.

2 s
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 12:11
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
There is no doubt in my mind that it is, overwhelmingly, younger people leaving most of the rubbish. However, as Uplinker said, they had to learn it from somewhere. Or more likely learned the lack of consequences of their actions from somewhere.

For that Iím afraid you canít look solely at the younger generation.

I am 43 and wouldnít dream of littering, ever. I work in Oman and littering is common but I steadfastly refuse to stoop to their level.

Additionally, if I saw my kids dropping litter they would be left in no doubt how unacceptable it is.

I donít know the answer to the problem but maybe the first step is to admit there is a problem.

BV
​​​​​​
I believe you answered the question when the stated "if I saw my kids dropping letter etc...."

It is the parents fault. We all learn social graces from them and our children are a reflection of us.



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Old 27th Jun 2020, 12:14
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My two cents - (many of) the younger generation have been spoiled by parents who do everything for them including picking up dirty clothes to wash, tidying bedrooms, putting out their food and washing up their plates. They are just not conditioned to looking after such things and behave just the same when they are out.

Crossed with ZFT
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 12:19
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Upbringing is the simple answer. I was taught never to drop litter, always clear up after yourself. It seems the moral guidance from parents is out of fashion.

There's more to it than that, after the lockdown people are letting off steam but too lethargic to clear up. Cheap disposable products they cannot be bothered to reuse. The expectation that someone is going to clear up after you, "The Council pays someone to do that." I've been told when I asked them to take their litter away from the beach.

Curtailed because of urgent errand.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 12:20
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
There is no doubt in my mind that it is, overwhelmingly, younger people leaving most of the rubbish. However, as Uplinker said, they had to learn it from somewhere. Or more likely learned the lack of consequences of their actions from somewhere.

For that I’m afraid you can’t look solely at the younger generation.

I am 43 and wouldn’t dream of littering, ever. I work in Oman and littering is common but I steadfastly refuse to stoop to their level.

Additionally, if I saw my kids dropping litter they would be left in no doubt how unacceptable it is.

I don’t know the answer to the problem but maybe the first step is to admit there is a problem.

BV
I'm the fag-end of the Boomer generation (sibs are all 1950s born) and while I am terribly untidy in my own house I wouldn't dream of leaving a mess outside in public places or in other people's homes, where I will help clear up meals or after parties, etc. Even leave hotel rooms tidy before I leave... My friends and family are the same and have endeavoured to instill the same attitude in their kids. Parents and teachers instilled it in us...

Yet my nieces would visit my mum who was practically chairbound towards the end of her life, have a cup of tea and leave dirty cups and plates in the sink. Who do you think was going to wash up? Usually me when I visited later on. My aunt says the same; my siblings, my cousin and I all wash the crockery and help her tidy up - the younger generations who go to see her seem to feel less obligated to do so. She's 94 and while reasonably able-bodied it would be nice to show her a bit more respect in that aspect. They are not horrid people, just thoughtless.

I take empty glasses back to the bar in the pub when it's my round, I push my chair under the table, put tables back if we've moved them together for a larger group. Common courtesy, like saying "thank you".

It's a lack of thought - "somebody else will clear up...". Maybe it's the generations who have become too used to ordering everything on line and doing less for themselves?

Maybe Charlie Golf has a view from what he sees at his school?
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 12:24
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I have seen the use of the word NO, as in no you cannot have that or no stop that seems to be frowned upon.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 12:32
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I thought younger people were supposed to care far more about our planet than those of us who have preceded them? An odd way of showing it...
Window dressing/virtue signalling for the most part, all hopping on board the train of thought that has been produced for the feeble-minded to feel good about, but not practice what they preach.

There is no doubt in my mind that it is, overwhelmingly, younger people leaving most of the rubbish. However, as Uplinker said, they had to learn it from somewhere. Or more likely learned the lack of consequences of their actions from somewhere.
They've learnt it from their 'parents' that for the most part that there are no meaningful consequences to their anti-social actions. Someone else always clears it up anyway, so why should they bother type of mentality. The only way things will change for the better will be with serious and punitive punishments for these citizens. Education at key-stage 1 level that looking after your local area helps us all might also change things.

I used to travel a lot and spent time living in several countries and ALWAYS picked up my detritus and took it with me, no matter how untidy the local area was. I've even got a tik that obliges me to traipse around with recyclable items until they can be disposed of properly, which makes life irritating at times. To just throw your crap down and walk away is anathema to me. I did it when a teenager here and there, but that's about it and when someone pointed out the error of my ways, It clicked in my mind and I didn't do it again. I don't understand how adults can do this, how can they be so stupid ?
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 12:34
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Over the last few decades we've seen an increasing tendency for some parents to believe that they have zero responsibility for raising their children. Everything is always someone else's responsibility, never theirs. Expecting their children to have anything other than the same approach is probably a bit of a stretch.

The problem is, in some respects, the fault of successive governments that have tended to intrude more forcefully into people's lives, from the moment that their first child arrives. It's hardly surprising that some parents feel that it isn't their job to bring their children up such that they are unselfish and actually understand that everyone needs to behave reasonably, for the good of society as a whole.

Perhaps one solution to try and teach some basic good manners to all those who just leave filth and litter in public spaces is to just not bother to pick it up. May be if the next time they go to a park to socialise they were to find the ground covered with the crap left from their last outing, with nowhere clean for them to sit down, they might start to realise that they have a responsibility to keep places tidy. Volunteers going around tidying up after people like this is just reinforcing the message they've had from their parents, that cleaning up is someone else's job, not theirs.

We could also try more rigorous enforcement, too. In some places you can not only get fined, but also face a short prison sentence for some types of littering. Not sure how persuasive increased enforcement and penalties would be, but it might be worth trying. Another option might be to use the system they have in some parts of China for "naming and shaming" offenders. They have large electronic billboards, and display photos of offenders, with their names and the offence committed. Given the level of CCTV coverage we have, it might be possible to do something similar here. It'd be a relatively low cost way of trying to tackle the problem, especially if social media was also used to "advertise" offenders identities.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 12:52
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When did the British public become so disgusting?
Some time before 55BC if you believe the Romans. Things never change much......

Herodian, writing about 200 AD

Most of Britain is marshland because it is flooded by the continual ocean tides. The barbarians usually swim in these swamps or run along in them, submerged up to the waist. Of course, they are practically naked and do not mind the mud because they are unfamiliar with the use of clothing, and they adorn their waists and necks with iron, valuing this metal as an ornament and a token of wealth in the way that other barbarians value gold...... Because of the thick mist which rises from the marshes, the atmosphere in this region is always gloomy".“.......




https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ng-516009.html

2,000 years of binge drinking
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 13:09
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Actually, a snippet of thought from my working life. It always pi$$ed me off no end that some of my colleagues would leave dirty crockery in the kitchen sinks at the end of the day. I was usually one of the first in and would find the sink stacked high with cups, cereal bowls with cement bound cornflakes/porridge, plates with food on them - not just scraps either - and also not rinse away drinks slops, etc. People wanted to use the sink for other purposes, washing salad/fruit, etc, etc...

Two years before the parent company folded sending our part of the business down the toilet, we moved to a new office with a really nice single kitchen and two dish washers. We had about 200 cups for roughly 80 people. People would take a fresh cup rather than rinse and re-use, leaving the dirty cup in the sink. Due to staff cuts I took on the role of deputy office manager and attempted to persuade people - mostly far younger than me - to reuse cups and at the end of the day PUT THEM IN THE £*&%ING DISHWASHER and leave the sink in the state you would wish to find it. The response was "that's the cleaner's job"; but it wasn't. As I frequently pointed out, the cleaner was there to clean, not tidy up after adolescent professional staff. "She never cleans our desks". Actually she did, even though we told her not to! (Fantastic lady, Maria, trained nurse totally wasted doing cleaning - she did twice the work with half the effort of our previous male cleaner - if it had been in our gift, the officer manager and I would have raised her salary considerably and ensured a hefty bonus each year...)

One girl tried to blame our lady MD for leaving the mess in the sink - I pointed out that I regularly caught the MD tidying up other people's mess in the kitchen, she never left dirty cups in meeting rooms and rinsed all her own crockery and put it in the dish washer. If she can do it and the other senior directors too...

Again, the slovenly attitude was largely from some of the younger university-educated colleagues who must have had mums or even staff that did everything for them - cook, clean, wipe their bottoms...
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 13:28
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post

Maybe Charlie Golf has a view from what he sees at his school?
First, I've been retired a bit... But I recognise the place of parental example that's been expressed, and brought my parents' expectations to school with me. Now I've worked in dirt poor schools and middle class schools, and have to say the small problems I've seen come from the entitlement of a very small number of the latter. But overall, having been head in 4 schools, it's easy to engender a sense of care for the environment. If you want to! One thing I always did, was to be seen picking up litter- there is always some, after all. For what it's worth, I think there's a primary school generation coming up that might redress the balance.

CG
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 13:43
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
First, I've been retired a bit... But I recognise the place of parental example that's been expressed, and brought my parents' expectations to school with me. Now I've worked in dirt poor schools and middle class schools, and have to say the small problems I've seen come from the entitlement of a very small number of the latter. But overall, having been head in 4 schools, it's easy to engender a sense of care for the environment. If you want to! One thing I always did, was to be seen picking up litter- there is always some, after all. For what it's worth, I think there's a primary school generation coming up that might redress the balance.

CG
I hope you're right about the new generation of children. I think this is a parental responsibility, certainly schools should be reinforcing it, but the parents should be instilling from the first day. This probably goes back to the invention of the teenager and their rebellious ways. As for time in the forces I think re-educating these children would probably come under the realm of extreme mission creep.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 13:57
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It's no excuse of course but Givmint have to take some of the blame... When I was growing up there was a "charge" on empty glass bottles. What happened to that?? Now, I live in a sensible country that puts a value (pant) on every can and plastic bottle. 10p. Sometimes 20p. And a plastic bag is not 5p it's 60p! So how much of this littering do you think we have? Leaving money on the beach??? 'Not happening. People save up their bottles and cans and get 10 quid back! UK are so behind the times it's just embarrassing?
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