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UK- A Long Hot Summer of Disorder

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UK- A Long Hot Summer of Disorder

Old 26th Jun 2020, 05:47
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UK- A Long Hot Summer of Disorder

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...xton-0qrdzs0jx

Britain faces a summer of disorder as lockdown frustrations, rising unemployment and hot weather combine to fuel unrest, senior police fear.

The warning came after an illegal street party erupted into violence. Crowds of youths injured 22 officers and vandalised police cars in Brixton, south London. Footage on social media showed officers being pelted with bottles and a patrol car having its windows smashed during the Wednesday night party on the Angell Town estate that went on until yesterday morning.

The head of the Police Federation warned of a “perfect storm” for widespread disorder this summer as the social impact of the coronavirus pandemic festered in the hot weather......

Last night officers attempting to disperse crowds at an unlicensed music event at Colville Gardens, in Notting Hill, were attacked by revellers. Scotland Yard said objects were thrown at officers dispersing the crowd..... Meanwhile, police also attended an “unlicensed music event” at Streatham Common.

In Plymouth police increased their presence yesterday after “large-scale disorder” and drunken fighting on Wednesday night. This week police refused to intervene at a street party in Manchester that ended with two men being shot dead......


John Apter, the chairman of the Police Federation representing rank-and-file officers, said: “I’m really concerned. The summer time always adds extra pressure. People are on holiday, they are out drinking, they want to enjoy themselves. What we have this summer that is different is the build-up of pressure over months of lockdown, the added frustration of worrying about the virus, people are losing their jobs.”

He said that the way the government had announced the easing of lockdown and the reopening of the pubs on July 4 was a concern as the country had been “sold . . . countdown to carnival”......

The event in Angell Town began as a barbecue at 1pm but spiralled into a street party with hundreds of young people dancing to a sound system. At least one man is understood to have been stabbed. Police seized the sound system at 7pm.

By 9pm, as the police control centre received complaints about the loud music and urinating in the streets, the force put in place a Section 60 order, allowing officers to stop and search anyone. More officers arrived to disperse the crowd at midnight, when the party turned violent.

More officers arrived to disperse the crowd at midnight, when the party turned violent. Videos posted online show crowds of people gathering in the early evening, drinking around expensive cars. In one video, vandals drag a table into the street and break off its legs to use as weapons as they chase a police van around a park. Others climb on a police car and smash its windows.

A knife fight broke out at night between rival gangs. In one clip, several people call for help to give an injured man space. One says: “They stabbed him in his face and his chest. No way.”.....

In footage of the violence one Snapchat user said: “This is . . . Angell Town, where I grew up. It’s not a good thing but do you know what? It’s entertainment.”.....

Analysis

The spectre of a long hot summer of discontent and disorder looms large nearly ten years on from the last widespread rioting in Britain (John Simpson writes).

The speed at which the 2011 riots began and spread was mirrored when police vans arrived in response to multiple complaints from residents on the Angell Town estate this week. Officers ill-equipped for public disorder faced an angry crowd who turned the street into a battleground, yelling: “Hold the line.”

As criminal justice and policing are under renewed scrutiny, there is concern that one flashpoint could galvanise the pockets of disorder seen at illegal street parties in recent months — as in 2011 when police shot dead Mark Duggan, who had been stopped in a planned operation that went awry.

Officers are concerned that a single social media video deemed to portray police brutality could provoke chaos in the streets. As the public have gradually emerged from the lockdown, serious violence has also returned. On May 13 the first relaxation of restrictions came into effect. Within hours two young men had been murdered in the capital.

The atmosphere is febrile, with several senior policing sources raising concerns over the coming economic downturn and the further easing of measures. Overall, crime has been low and remains low under lockdown but the resurgence of violence has not gone unnoticed.

The theory goes that a heavy-handed approach to breaking up these parties risks prompting the sort of violence seen against officers on Wednesday night, but before long those officers were being criticised for failing to arrive in riot gear.

The response to the incident illustrates the impossible scenario that officers face and the thin line between order and chaos.......
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 06:33
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...police-injured
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 08:22
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I'd hate to be in the Met this summer - won't take much to set off the powder keg.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 08:37
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Originally Posted by trident3A View Post
I'd hate to be in the Met this summer - won't take much to set off the powder keg.
Other police forces are available!

Given the behaviour of "Neanderthal Man" yesterday, be it in Liverpool, Bournemouth, or by all accounts many other seaside resorts it's going to be a torid time for policing generally this summer, especially were the government to carry out their threat to close beaches, and I suppose by implication, resorts if people fail to behave properly.

Next saturday evening could be a disaster, I still believe re-opening pubs and bars again on a saturday is foolish beyond belief, monday would have been so much more sensible, at least some people would be working.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 09:43
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Unfortunately, a combination of the covid lock-down, BLM protests, the media, submission by the police and and some fair weather equals a total bl##dy mess.

When you see the police running away from "mainly peaceful" protesters, taking the knee, standing aside whilst criminal damage takes place and the police chiefs giving politically correct bullsh#t excuses, the yobs see the weakness.
The government wrings its hands and doesn't give proper direction to the police and the public.
The hypocrisy and double standards by much of the media, criticise white people for anything, praise black people for everything.
The thugs (white or black) see police wont enforce the law fully, they see the police on the ground have their hands tied by their own leadership and a weak government.

Now before I get accused of police hating, I'm not. The guys and girls on the ground I feel really sorry for. It's not their fault that things have come to this, but I agree with T3A, the spark to ignite this will be so minor, but the consequences will catastrophic I fear.

Last edited by Filler Dent; 26th Jun 2020 at 12:40. Reason: Hungover comprehension
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 09:47
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Originally Posted by trident3A View Post
I'd hate to be in the Met this summer - won't take much to set off the powder keg.
Indeed. It must be frustrating to join a police force hoping to deter crime and keep people safe in their homes, only to find you are used to stop resentful and potentially violent people having parties in the street.
Priti Patel made a great show yesterday of publicly demanding that Cressida Dick attended her office first thing in the morning to explain what happened in Brixton. I trust that she was told to book an appointment in a very full diary.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:23
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What is needed is a few water cannon.........oh, I forgot we sold them after Theresa May would not allow them to be used.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:28
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Originally Posted by M.Mouse View Post
What is needed is a few water cannon.........oh, I forgot we sold them after Theresa May would not allow them to be used.
That's precisely what we need, but they "aren't British" - we need to become less "British" since the population, at least large minorities of it don't play ball any more. Times have changed, and the rules need to change with them.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 11:29
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At least the hot weather is due to abate, the heat seems to bring out the worst in some elements of our society.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 11:44
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How different things would have been had it been raining the last few days. I'm praying for rain for July 4th.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 13:12
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Water cannon the answer, eh? You mean the way they so effectively prevented the street protests in Hong Kong and Paris and Germany? No? ... oh well, if you mean as a method of injuring those taking part as a sort of satisfying revenge, yes, that would do it! Given the track record of an ex-Gold Commander who sanctioned the killing of an innocent tourist, she might well be up for it!
Of course, one could also go the Northern Ireland route, which was so successful, with rubber (and real) bullets. So many possibilities!
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 13:20
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Water cannon the answer, eh? You mean the way they so effectively prevented the street protests in Hong Kong and Paris and Germany? No? ... oh well, if you mean as a method of injuring those taking part as a sort of satisfying revenge, yes, that would do it! Given the track record of an ex-Gold Commander who sanctioned the killing of an innocent tourist, she might well be up for it!
Of course, one could also go the Northern Ireland route, which was so successful, with rubber (and real) bullets. So many possibilities!
I'm not from the "lock 'em up and throw away the key" wing, but I can't see the "come along there, move on please, if you don't mind" approach to policing illegal parties has been very successful so far. I get the feeling that the extremely light, almost non-existent touch of the police is because they are desparately worried that in among the crowds might be a BAME person who might get injured during dispersal of crowds, and they don't want provoke yet more protests.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 13:31
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ATN - and your response to my post would be?
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 13:35
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ATN - and your response to my post would be?
It was worthy of a response?
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 13:45
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
ATN - and your response to my post would be?
Water cannon would dampen down the nonsense whilst not necessarily inflicting serious injury on those towards whom it was aimed. Add a little indelible dye to the water and the police would have an easier task locating those whorefused to disperse when asked politely.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 13:55
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It was worthy of a response?
What is needed is a few water cannon.........oh, I forgot we sold them after Theresa May would not allow them to be used.

Possibly not, but perhaps more so than the above quoted, well thought though piece of social behaviour 'reasoning'. Your deep and cogent argument for the solution to civil unrest gets neatly to the heart of the problem and, at a stroke, so to speak, reduces such social ills to the unimportant value which, you, apparently, rate them at. Such high quality solutions offered to our troubled populace are plainly wasted on such a sparse audience as Jet Blast.! Speak to the World ... publish on Faecesbook!
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 13:58
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Water cannon would dampen down the nonsense whilst not necessarily inflicting serious injury on those towards whom it was aimed. Add a little indelible dye to the water and the police would have an easier task locating those whorefused to disperse when asked politely.
As used, so successfully, in Hong Kong?
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:08
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I'm not from the "lock 'em up and throw away the key" wing, but I can't see the "come along there, move on please, if you don't mind" approach to policing illegal parties has been very successful so far. I get the feeling that the extremely light, almost non-existent touch of the police is because they are desparately worried that in among the crowds might be a BAME person who might get injured during dispersal of crowds, and they don't want provoke yet more protests.
It doesn't work, the mob are emboldened by it. Sooner or later the police are going to have to get control of the situation otherwise we'll be standing by while shops are looted, cars & buildings set on fire and millions of pounds of criminal damage done again just like 2011.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:21
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Water cannon the answer, eh? You mean the way they so effectively prevented the street protests in Hong Kong and Paris and Germany? No? ... oh well, if you mean as a method of injuring those taking part as a sort of satisfying revenge, yes, that would do it! Given the track record of an ex-Gold Commander who sanctioned the killing of an innocent tourist, she might well be up for it!
Of course, one could also go the Northern Ireland route, which was so successful, with rubber (and real) bullets. So many possibilities!
Your solution to these incidents are?
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:33
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IIRC, the only reason the water cannon that BJ bought had to be disposed of was because they were too powerful to use against people, and were of a type that had been associated with causing injury. That doesn't necessarily mean that all forms of water jet crowd dispersal systems are inherently dangerous, though.

There has to be a reasonably safe way to use jets of water to break up crowds, surely. We already know that crowds tend to disperse if it rains, so surely someone can come up with a reasonably powerful and dissuasive water cannon that isn't so powerful as to bowl people over and cause serious injury?

It's clear that the police have fewer and fewer effective ways available to break up violent mobs; they get criticised if they play safe and let violence and property damage continue and they get criticised if they go in wielding batons and riot shields. I read somewhere of a country that was spraying violent crowds with a non-toxic, semi-permanent, dye. That might go some way towards dissuading people from rioting, as those that had been involved would tend to stand out a bit for a week or two afterwards.

Nothing much is going to dissuade the core minority that incite others to violence, but if the numbers of mindless followers are reduced by fairly safe and simple measures then at least the chance of them killing each other might be lessened a bit.
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