US Politics Hamsterwheel V3.0
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
So let me ask this in reverse, FlyMD: Do you think it acceptable to tell a person providing a modest living for his/her young family by working for someone, or running his own small business, that he must close the business and have ZERO income, for a period of time that is indeterminate, because of the small percentage of people that have become ill and even died? Especially when we understand who makes up the at-risk group for serious covid-19 illness, and how that risk for the person I mention is in fact negligible.
If so, what will you advise he do to look after his family? And when will you tell him it will end?
It's all well and good for those of us who have retained a well-paid job or who have a comfortable retirement plan, to preach austerity to a farmer, a tire repairman, or a theatre manager. To use your words:
If we wait till this virus has departed, we will be waiting a very long time indeed.
If so, what will you advise he do to look after his family? And when will you tell him it will end?
It's all well and good for those of us who have retained a well-paid job or who have a comfortable retirement plan, to preach austerity to a farmer, a tire repairman, or a theatre manager. To use your words:
if you think that it's unimportant,... you're certainly entitled to that opinion.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not where I want to be
Age: 68
Posts: 260
Originally Posted by obgraham
So let me ask this in reverse, FlyMD: Do you think it acceptable to tell a person providing a modest living for his/her young family by working for someone, or running his own small business, that he must close the business and have ZERO income, for a period of time that is indeterminate, because of the small percentage of people that have become ill and even died? Especially when we understand who makes up the at-risk group for serious covid-19 illness, and how that risk for the person I mention is in fact negligible.
If so, what will you advise he do to look after his family? And when will you tell him it will end?
It's all well and good for those of us who have retained a well-paid job or who have a comfortable retirement plan, to preach austerity to a farmer, a tire repairman, or a theatre manager. To use your words:
If we wait till this virus has departed, we will be waiting a very long time indeed.
If so, what will you advise he do to look after his family? And when will you tell him it will end?
It's all well and good for those of us who have retained a well-paid job or who have a comfortable retirement plan, to preach austerity to a farmer, a tire repairman, or a theatre manager. To use your words:
If we wait till this virus has departed, we will be waiting a very long time indeed.
Per
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie
Watched Donny's golf swing on the news last night. No wonder he has to cheat.
But, I understand that many of Trumpy's best "shots" are performed with his foot.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Switzerland
Age: 53
Posts: 385
obgraham, I don't have the answers pertaining to your country, obviously. In mine, the executive is appointed by the legislative branch, or elected directly at the state and community level: in times of crisis you hope you made the right choice at the ballot box, and trust your government to make the right choices. After the crisis, you sanction their performance at the ballot box. And yes, you temporarily give up some of your rights and liberties as guaranteed by your constitution, just as you do for a short while every time a cop tells you to do something you don't necessarily agree with, except this time, with COVID, we give up a part of those liberties for a much longer time, enough for a good part of the population to get pissed off, and start believing some of the crap they read on the internet, and formulate their own, "smarter" policy to solve the pandemic.
Again, no idea how you want to set priorities in the US... In Switzerland, the government has presented an exit strategy from this mess, and keeps adapting it as facts and figures come in. It's not perfect, and a lot of people are out of a job, out of money, and mightily pissed off. I fully expect to greet next year with a tripled unemployment countrywide, no money left in the public coffers and a raging recession. The bill for all this will be carried by the middle class, as usual, that's what the middle class is for: I'll get to bitch and do something about it at the next election.
You guys obviously have a somewhat different way of doing things, and make interesting choices as to whom you like to elect to power and trust in difficult times...
Again, no idea how you want to set priorities in the US... In Switzerland, the government has presented an exit strategy from this mess, and keeps adapting it as facts and figures come in. It's not perfect, and a lot of people are out of a job, out of money, and mightily pissed off. I fully expect to greet next year with a tripled unemployment countrywide, no money left in the public coffers and a raging recession. The bill for all this will be carried by the middle class, as usual, that's what the middle class is for: I'll get to bitch and do something about it at the next election.
You guys obviously have a somewhat different way of doing things, and make interesting choices as to whom you like to elect to power and trust in difficult times...
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: not scotland
Posts: 255
Originally Posted by Boudreaux Bob
Obama played Golf seven of eight Memorial Day's yet you criticize Trump.
Apart from lying to y’all, today he criticised Joe Biden for his actions as VP during the H1N1 epidemic. Funny how you can criticise someone for their performance while absolving yourself completely.
Trump borrows slogans. Perhaps he also uses “ The buck stops there”.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 82
Posts: 1,167
Originally Posted by Boudreaux Bob
US CDC confirmed the Virus Death Rate is 0.03%......but then the Media is not going to tell you that are they?
Even if they did....it would not change your mind I bet.
Even if they did....it would not change your mind I bet.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 82
Posts: 1,167
Originally Posted by obgraham
Doesn't matter, Boudreax. To them, if you put 38 million out of work, and save one old geezer life, that's a good deal. Especially if you can persuade them by November that it was all Trump's fault.
TD
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 82
Posts: 1,167
Originally Posted by obgraham
My "position", my dear Turbine, is a simple one:
Protect the vulnerable.
Send the less vulnerable back to work.
Protect the vulnerable.
Send the less vulnerable back to work.
Too bad you didn't clearly write that in your first attempt. Instead you wrote:
To them, if you put 38 million out of work, and save one old geezer life, that's a good deal.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
It's all about context, Turbine, not cherry picking. (That season will start here in about three weeks, if the governor will allow it.)
One comment was a succinct statement of my view.
The other was my perceived view of the Trumphophobe party.
Why did you decide to conflate the two?
One comment was a succinct statement of my view.
The other was my perceived view of the Trumphophobe party.
Why did you decide to conflate the two?
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
To return to FlyMD, who claimed that we in the US's primary interest is to:
In my short but interesting visits to Switzerland, it is very clear to me that the Swiss have a much different concept of the role of government in their lives, than, say, Americans. So be it. You seem to be content with it, and as it has worked for you for several centuries, I would not be critical.
We could, of course, start a thread called "Swiss Politics Hamsterwheel". Wherein I might chime in from here to mention some of the less savory aspects of Swiss culture and history.
I find it presumptuous to be accused of not caring about lives lost, while condemning a huge portion of the population to poverty and its accompanying ill health and even death.
I've stated it before: We can either choose living with a virus and permanent economic collapse, or living with a virus and allowing economic recovery. In this, Switzerland and the USA are the same.
safeguard my net worth or the stock market
We could, of course, start a thread called "Swiss Politics Hamsterwheel". Wherein I might chime in from here to mention some of the less savory aspects of Swiss culture and history.
I find it presumptuous to be accused of not caring about lives lost, while condemning a huge portion of the population to poverty and its accompanying ill health and even death.
I've stated it before: We can either choose living with a virus and permanent economic collapse, or living with a virus and allowing economic recovery. In this, Switzerland and the USA are the same.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Switzerland
Age: 53
Posts: 385
Feel free, obgraham, to start a "Swiss politics hamsterwheel"... I'm sure you have already decided which excerpts of Wikipedia you would copy/paste in there to highlight the "less savory" parts of our history.... *yawn*
My observations on this particular hamsterwheel all stem from either the observations I make actually living and working in the US, or from the sometimes deliciously idiotic utterings made by the right wingnut fringe that is over-represented on the thread.
My observations on this particular hamsterwheel all stem from either the observations I make actually living and working in the US, or from the sometimes deliciously idiotic utterings made by the right wingnut fringe that is over-represented on the thread.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Syd
Posts: 2
In my short but interesting visits to Switzerland, it is very clear to me that the Swiss have a much different concept of the role of government in their lives, than, say, Americans.
I think you will find most other developed nations have a different concept of the role of government.
The complete paranoia and need to be heavily armed to defend against a tyrannical government is as American as it is absurd.
We can either choose living with a virus and permanent economic collapse, or living with a virus and allowing economic recovery. In this, Switzerland and the USA are the same.
Neither of these two options accurately depict the most likely outcome but bravo for keeping it simple.
This economic downturn, a very nasty downturn, perhaps the biggest recession for a lifetime was brewing anyway and corona is simply the pin that pricked the bubble. Make no mistake, by years end we would still have been crying into our soup over our economic woes had corona not emerged.
It is fanciful to assume that the economy was going to continue ticking on its merry path of perpetual growth considering how much of our lifestyle is funded by debt.
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Yakima
Posts: 173
Thank you, Dear Leader, for another brilliant quote; you never disappoint:
And yes, obgraham, there will be cherries; agricultural workers are exempt.
“I don’t use insulin. Should I be? Huh?” Trump said. “I never thought about it. But I know a lot of people are very badly affected, right? Unbelievable.”
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 82
Posts: 1,167
Originally Posted by obgraham
Doesn't matter, Boudreax. To them, if you put 38 million out of work, and save one old geezer life, that's a good deal. Especially if you can persuade them by November that it was all Trump's fault.
Apparently, you are not enough of a United States citizen to know the difference between the American usage of the word 'geezer' and the UK usage. I am not interested in your usage of words like succinct, Trumphophobe and other prima donna words you like to use. At 80, I am firmly the part of the category you identify as "Old Geezers." You seem very willing to brush off their sacrifice compared to your honored commitment as a medical physician. Almost 80% of the pandemic 100,000 deaths in the United States are in the elderly or geezer category as you like to put it. To your usage I say you are an
!Just so you understand your derogatory remark: gee·zer| ˈɡēzər | noun1 North American informal, derogatory an old man. 2 British informal a man: he strikes me as a decent geezer - New Oxford Dictionary
Maybe you need to take another hiatus to refine your posting to not be so insulting...
TD
