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US Politics Hamsterwheel V3.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel V3.0

Old 31st May 2020, 02:23
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah, the USA which is currently at war with itself, at near war between races, a virtual war in the gridlocked partisan political scene, at near war over restarting the economy in the face of the pandemic, at ‘war’ with every other country they’ve sanctioned and tariffed, is going to be succeeding in a ‘war’ with China?

I think there is a massive social, moral, identity conflict we are now seeing boiling over in the streets of America, a conflict that is going to have to be solved by the US refocusing it’s priorities at home instead of starting more conflicts overseas.
So what is different this time to many other times in the US when it turns on itself? Race riots, nothing new, sabre rattling, nothing new, economic malaise that disadvantages millions of its own citizens, nothing new. Civil War, nothing new. The only difference is gross incompetence from POTUS but that has a life on it. One thing always amazes me about the US is how quickly it can pull itself together when the country has a common goal. If China thinks that America is showing weakness with its capitalist system and tries to take advantage of it then they need to take another look at the history of the last 170 years.
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Old 31st May 2020, 04:04
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
So what is different this time to many other times in the US when it turns on itself? Race riots, nothing new, sabre rattling, nothing new, economic malaise that disadvantages millions of its own citizens, nothing new. Civil War, nothing new. The only difference is gross incompetence from POTUS but that has a life on it. One thing always amazes me about the US is how quickly it can pull itself together when the country has a common goal. If China thinks that America is showing weakness with its capitalist system and tries to take advantage of it then they need to take another look at the history of the last 170 years.
Understand folks need to protest what was a horrific act, but can somebody please tell me what looting on Rodeo Drive and Melrose has to do with an innocent mans death?

It is difficult to watch the Fire Department vehicles being stoned, folks standing in the road not allowing them through, these are the people that run into buildings to save ordinary folks, and this is the mobs response to them?

So far the local and state responses out here in lala land have been totally inadequate, impose an 8pm curfew yet can’t enforce it, so now you call out the guard?

We are all seeing just how thin the line of the law actually is, and how many are prepared to break it.


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Old 31st May 2020, 05:10
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
One of “finest ever delivered” whilst he simultaneously rage tweets?

Yeah, the USA which is currently at war with itself, at near war between races, a virtual war in the gridlocked partisan political scene, at near war over restarting the economy in the face of the pandemic, at ‘war’ with every other country they’ve sanctioned and tariffed, is going to be succeeding in a ‘war’ with China?

I think there is a massive social, moral, identity conflict we are now seeing boiling over in the streets of America, a conflict that is going to have to be solved by the US refocusing it’s priorities at home instead of starting more conflicts overseas.
You have seen my point and moved on swiftly. Too swiftly in my view. I think something happened with that speech. The start of something and the end of something. I may be wrong.

If Trump has a new advisor, he is listening to, he will change. Time will tell. The Tweets will be smoothed out. The message will be tuned to winning the election. It will not matter what went on before.

As happened with BREXIT in the UK, you don't have to change everyone's mind. Just sufficient of the swing voters. And it does not matter how you change each vote. The age of 'Vote for me and I will change what YOU don't like' has arrived. If Trump has found his Dominic Cummings AND he listens to them, we are going to see subtle changes.

Ignoring the Press was one. Trump does not have to succeed at anything except gaining swing votes. If I'm wrong, the China speech was just a one off, good one.
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Old 31st May 2020, 05:20
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wishiwasupthere View Post
Riots in the streets. Army called in. 40 million unemployed. 100000 dead in three months. Has Trump finished making America great again?
Does it matter? That slogan is history. A new one will be along shortly. Vote Trump.

He will simultaneously say. I stopped the riots. I agree with the riots. The Army saved us. I will get you back to work after I save you from China flu. I kept the death toll low. America is great.

Vote for any one of those. Vote Trump.
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Old 31st May 2020, 05:26
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fltlt View Post
Understand folks need to protest what was a horrific act, but can somebody please tell me what looting on Rodeo Drive and Melrose has to do with an innocent mans death?
They went shopping?
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Old 31st May 2020, 06:00
  #146 (permalink)  
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Old 31st May 2020, 06:16
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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"Yes, he's an idiot with zero common sense, and no social skills, but he IS my son. I just hope he never goes into politics, he'd be a disaster."

Mary Anne Trump.
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Old 31st May 2020, 06:42
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fltlt View Post
Understand folks need to protest what was a horrific act, but can somebody please tell me what looting on Rodeo Drive and Melrose has to do with an innocent mans death?
"Certain conditions continue to exist in our society, which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard."

Martin Luther King...

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/n...yd/5282486002/
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Old 31st May 2020, 07:37
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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The USA is looking like a third world failed state to me at the moment.

Time for a new slogan - Making America Burn Again.
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Old 31st May 2020, 08:22
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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These sorts of events happen periodically in the USA, police use extreme force against person of colour, person dies, and people hit the streets.

But it doesn't matter whether the President is Democrat or Republican nothing changes. There appears to be a level of racism inbuilt into American in a way that it doesn't appear to be in Western Europe. Why is just don't understand as most of the Americans I have ever met have been some of the most pleasant, open and welcoming people you'd ever want to meet.

What has change to stop recurrences? is it getting shot of local city police, and have fewer more professional officers who are better managed and controlled? Does it require a more equal society, where the gap between the haves and have nots is narrower, and where there is more of a safety net for people who fall on hard times; the latter will never happen since that smacks of the "s" word - socialism, though it's nothing of the sort.
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Old 31st May 2020, 09:45
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fltlt View Post
Understand folks need to protest what was a horrific act, but can somebody please tell me what looting on Rodeo Drive and Melrose has to do with an innocent mans death?
At the risk of repeating myself:

There appears to be a wide-spread (even national) opportunistic co-option and escalation of the George Floyd incident and demonstrations - by radical groups, ranging from anarchists who simply want war with the police, to a handful of white-supremacists hoping this is the pathway to their long-desired race war.
I note that in images of the looting of, actually, only one Rodeo Drive store (others were damaged, not stolen from), the majority of the perps are large, well-muscled light-skinned (in some cases clearly caucasian) men, in the "uniforms" (black T-shirts and slacks) of the anarchist and "antifa-style" groups.

I.E. "white boys"

https://wwd.com/fashion-news/fashion...ts-1203644223/

Even Faux News, Donald Trump and Bill Barr get this: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...dueling-claims
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Old 31st May 2020, 10:30
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Why is just don't understand as most of the Americans I have ever met have been some of the most pleasant, open and welcoming people you'd ever want to meet.
I've heard some Southerners of the mid 19th century were quite pleasant and welcoming people too, didn't stop them from fighting a bloody civil war for the right to keep black people as property.

What has change to stop recurrences? is it getting shot of local city police, and have fewer more professional officers who are better managed and controlled?
Totally. Norwegian, Dutch and Finnish police undergo a Bachelor's degree. American police theoretical training lasts on average 19 weeks, and their training in use of force is 20 times longer than conflict de-escalation training..

Does it require a more equal society, where the gap between the haves and have nots is narrower, and where there is more of a safety net for people who fall on hard times; the latter will never happen since that smacks of the "s" word - socialism, though it's nothing of the sort.
American socialism is bailouts for failing corporations and military spending. They can't even provide basic universal healthcare, affordable higher education, rehabilitative prisons, paid sick or family leave for fear of being called socialist, even though those programs are supported by every European center-right party.
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Old 31st May 2020, 11:47
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Totally. Norwegian, Dutch and Finnish police undergo a Bachelor's degree. American police theoretical training lasts on average 19 weeks, and their training in use of force is 20 times longer than conflict de-escalation training..
That's because we are an armed nation and best way of descalation if to shoot first
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Old 31st May 2020, 12:43
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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I had a bit of a surprise reading Buzzfeed this morning: Apparently the victim and the cop making sure his neck didn't float away not only knew each other but also worked together at times as security at a local club! I wonder how much what transpired was "payback"?
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Old 31st May 2020, 12:48
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
That's because we are an armed nation and best way of descalation if to shoot first
Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?
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Old 31st May 2020, 13:32
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
That's because we are an armed nation and best way of descalation if to shoot first
That's descalation? Really?

.
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Old 31st May 2020, 15:11
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
That isn't the job of the cops, that's the job of the courts, ascertaining guilt or innocence. As to your hypothetical: no idea.

Whether the person was dangerous before being cuffed I don't know; not sure why they cuffed him. The cops are supposed to get a situation under control. Once cuffed and down, he would appear to have been under control.
This is the basis of a lot of America’s problems regarding police behavior. The guy was unarmed and according to reports not violent and was allegedly involved in passing off fake cash or checks. When was this situation ever “out” of control.

Several work mates of mine from the UK and Australia in past careers have worked with law enforcement in the US and all have made similar observations: very poorly trained and with little to no expertise in de-escalating situations.


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Old 31st May 2020, 15:47
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wtsmg View Post
National Guard marches through a quiet residential neighborhood in #Minneapolis, screaming at citizens to get inside.

Soldiers stop to point their guns at residents on their balcony.

They yell “LIGHT THEM UP” as they fire riot control rounds at them.
So the US wants to portray itself as an exceptional nation, as the beacon of freedom and democracy, as the "shining city on the hill"?

No, it's a brutally authoritarian police state. Soldiers/Police patrolling en masse behind armoured vehicles shooting residents in their homes who are no threat. Even rubber bullets can cause serious damage, and can take out eyes if hit. These guys literally think they're in a war zone (aren't a lot of cops ex-military?) and their own citizens are the enemy.

Heck even China in 2020 isn't that brutal to civilian bystanders.

The US has a bit of soul searching to do. Best you stop your nation's fast decline into a failed state before telling the rest of the world how to act.



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Old 31st May 2020, 16:12
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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Don't take slim slices of current events and magnify those into a assessment of all America.
There certainly are some serious problems there but a comparison to the activities of the dictatorial and racist Chinese communist system just does not wash.
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Old 31st May 2020, 16:23
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Don't take slim slices of current events and magnify those into a assessment of all America.
“Slim slices of current events”?

Sorry I’ve been watching these videos of how US cops treat the people who they’re meant to be protecting for a years now. There are systemic issues with the way American police officers behave, especially towards the black community. It’s undoubtedly racist.
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