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Black lives donít really matter London March.

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Black lives donít really matter London March.

Old 8th Jun 2020, 04:13
  #101 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
For the last three months, anyone who questioned the wisdom of the Covid lockdown was "anti-science". Now the experts who told us to stay at home are saying that going out to protest is just fine, but only if you protest the right thing:



I really wish I was making this up (and I'm rather ashamed that some of these 'health experts' are at the University of Washington).
You canít make this stuff up. Talk about mixed messaging!!!
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 05:05
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Hopefully he didnít confuse the flag with his tracksuit. That could have gone badly.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 05:16
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Yet they somehow managed to avoid the statue of Gandhi, a guy who had no time for the black people around him in ZA and when back in India happily practised casteism, the Hindu version of racism and slavery.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 05:32
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 601 View Post
What a novel idea.
If you do not like the place or situation you are in, as a lot of people in Europe did after WW2, why not move to a place where you feel that you belong or you can start a new like?
What an ignorant comment. Shall they be taken ďhomeĒ to the Ivory Coast, Gold Coast etc. on slaving ships, to be sold back to the coastal tribes who captured them and ďreturnedĒ to the jungle inland? A bit late for that isnít it?
Many rich US (and Arabic and UK) families and firms owe their prosperity to the trade in, and use of slaves from Africa.
These folk didnít get to the US by choice. That their families were since born there doesnít make them somehow unwelcome immigrants. Sow the wind and reap the whirlwind - or in this case, the wind of change.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 07:07
  #105 (permalink)  
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They tried that, it’s called Liberia. Not sure anyone would care to repeat the experiment. An unhappy result both for those who returned - and those they ended up ruling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Liberia

Speaking as the child of immigrants, in my case Irish, all those born here are equally British and join the melting pot.

I went to school in Ireland and know enough of the history of Various British Pogroms including those of Oliver Cromwell, but I wouldn’t support the removal of any of their statues in Britain itself - the past is there to be learned from not erased.

https://www.thejournal.ie/nelsons-pi...47389-Dec2016/

https://comeheretome.com/2012/05/24/...ueen-victoria/

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Old 8th Jun 2020, 07:25
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
the past is there to be learned from not erased.
Well said.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 07:41
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fltlt View Post

.....
The NFL is again virtue signaling, I doubt the result will change fans opinions.

I believe a lot of folks outside the US underestimate the reverence of the Stars and Stripes here.
......
.
I do not think most people outside the US underestimate the reverence for the flag. But they are astonished by it. When more reverence is demanded for the symbol than for the concept it was meant to represent, you have a real problem.

We stupidly thought the Stars and Stripes represented your much vaunted 'freedoms', especially the freedom to express an opinion. We are aghast to see that a piece of cloth is treated as inviolate and used to limit your freedom. I was horrified to see the witch-hunt against a man who peacefully and respectfully expressed a deeply held opinion by kneeling for the national anthem. If Americans didn't fight and die on the beaches of Normandy for his right to do that, then what was it all for ?

And I agree, it's pathetic for the NFL to suddenly declare that they were wrong to object because the subject of Kaepernick's protest is suddenly trendy. It's not about the subject, it's about his right to express an opinion.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 07:57
  #108 (permalink)  

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There is much talk in Liverpool - another City closely associated with the historic slave trade - of renaming the many streets named after slave traders. A fair enough (ish) idea.

But some thing tells cynical moi that they will not rename the Lane named after James Penny. Musn't affect the tourist trade eh!
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 08:01
  #109 (permalink)  
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 09:05
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Well it made laugh...
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 09:13
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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I note the enthusiasm exhibited by our 'usual suspects' for the idea of 'repatriating' certain races (or their descendants).
What a splendid idea!! We could start with all the (demonstrably) non-native inhabitants of the UK - that is those who do not have black/brunette hair and dark eyes of the original Celts. It would remove any blond-haired citizens so the 'bimbos' and buffoons of both sexes would be at the front of the queue (hooray!!). Sadly, of course, like so much emanating from this particular area of our society, the 'idea' is based on stupidity, ingrained racism, and unwarranted self-conceit., overlaid with a large dose of supra-nationalism. When one adds the well-honed British (particularly English) devotion to hypocrisy we can predict the tenor of some of the above postings.
An observation, which may or may not have been raised previously - the surname of the accused policeman in the US is ...Chauvin (for those to whom the name means nothing, look up Nicolas Chauvin - the Napoleonic veteran, not the rugby player!)
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 09:45
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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It's funny how only a few weeks ago, everyone (well a large number at least) were united in applauding the NHS and key workers.
We were all in a situation that for modern times was unprecedented, and the actions taken by various governments were, to some extent draconian but accepted by the majority as a means to "beat the virus".

Over the past couple of weeks, things have gone mad. Is it to do with the easing of restrictions? Pent up energy and emotions? Probably a combination of many factors.
An event 4000 miles away has somehow triggered these protests at a time when the CV19 is still a major threat. But that appears to have been forgotten by these idiots and the media.
We had days of frenzied criticism from the media, politicians and celebrities about one guy driving his family to his parents, yet absolutely nothing about these protests where tens of thousands are flagrantly breaking the restrictions.
As the tragic root cause is seemingly forgotten and is replaced by a general hatred of all things establishment, I'm afraid it's only going to drive more division and violence.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 11:23
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Some years ago, there was a court case in which a woman was charged by the police for not being 'in control' of her car because she was holding an apple in one hand whilst driving. If I remember correctly, she was pursued by a police car and a helicopter and an aerial video taken to provide evidence of this 'heinous crime'.
Meanwhile, over the weekend, there were countless examples of trespass & outright vandalism and the police stood by and did nothing. What kind of spineless #&%@'$# leadership have we got these days...
And in Bristol, the mayor effectively supported the theft and throwing into the river of Edward Colston's statue. I can see this getting worse.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 11:37
  #114 (permalink)  

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The weather needs to turn. It takes a dedicated protester to go out in the hissing rain. And it makes the flags more difficult to burn.......
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 11:38
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
the past is there to be learned from not erased
Hmm, not sure you necessarily need a statue for that. A book or lesson in school will do just fine.

I must admit to being slightly conflicted over this. I've driven past that statue hundreds of times without ever realising who it was, and even if I had it probably wouldn't have bothered me that much TBH. Its part of the city's history and as such does deserve a mention in some manner somewhere. If people are offended by it then fine, why not move it to a museum and put it in context with some more information about the slave trade, as some are now suggesting?

I do get the sense the protests we're seeing in the UK are an attempt to put on us on a par with the US in terms of our imagined race relations. Given our police are generally more restrained and the instances of racially motivated abuses by our police forces are few and far between in comparison, the protesters have instead picked up on the old slavery chestnut. There's also an element who are attempting to goad the police into action in order to garner some Tweetable footage of alleged police abuse (with regard to this, on Sky yesterday I did see a women in a hi-viz jacket with the words 'Legal Observer' written on the back - is she there to observe all elements, or one in particular I wonder? I mean, if she observed an assault on a police officer, would she offer herself up as a witness?)

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Old 8th Jun 2020, 12:42
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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And then there is the other side of slavery that nobody talks about when the Barbary Pirates roamed the English channel at will, had a base on Lundy Island in the Severn Estuary, and raided the coastal towns to get slaves for the North African slave markets.....
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 12:53
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MungoP View Post
The black population, instead of destroying the statue, should instead be garlanding it with flowers. Had it not been for the slave trade (and keep in mind it was their own people that sold their fore-fathers into slavery).. they would now be living in Africa, likely to be in desperate poverty. If any would like to emigrate there I doubt if many of us would object
Seriously?





Whether it was people of a similar race who sold them into slavery or they were kidnapped by slave traders is irrelevant. They were human beings who became pieces of property, bought and sold like pieces of household furniture. Are you honestly saying they should have been grateful? And are you saying the majority of the public (majority white people I guess) in the US would support all African Americans moving back to Africa? Is that what you’re saying?

I’m now thinking the BLM movement might have bigger issues to deal than just police brutality...

MungoP
What I'm saying is that slavery was outlawed in the UK 200 years ago for being a despicable crime. The descendants however are benefitting from the terrible experiences of their forefathers. And no white man ever went into Africa to round up slaves, they would not have survived five minutes, you need to sit down and do some studying. Slavery is endemic in Africa. Niger, a country formally a French colony, experienced no slavery during the French administration. The French left in '65, slavery became commonplace and was finally outlawed in, guess when... 2003. Which isn't to say it it doesn't still exist. Maybe you should spend some time in the worst parts of that continent as I've done rather than sit proselytizing.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 13:38
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MungoP View Post
What I'm saying is that slavery was outlawed in the UK 200 years ago for being a despicable crime. The descendants however are benefitting from the terrible experiences of their forefathers. And no white man ever went into Africa to round up slaves, they would not have survived five minutes, you need to sit down and do some studying. Slavery is endemic in Africa. Niger, a country formally a French colony, experienced no slavery during the French administration. The French left in '65, slavery became commonplace and was finally outlawed in, guess when... 2003. Which isn't to say it it doesn't still exist. Maybe you should spend some time in the worst parts of that continent as I've done rather than sit proselytizing.
The fact that slavery was pretty commonplace in countries within Africa, and elsewhere, like some countries in the Middle East, and probably still is, is something that should be made more public.

If the BLM supporters really want to make a difference then they should start protesting about the slavery that still exists, rather than something that was outlawed here over 200 years ago. If they want to protest about ancient slavery, then maybe they should take up the baton on behalf of all the Britons that were enslaved by the Romans, or the Viking slave trade that followed that.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 13:44
  #119 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
If the BLM supporters really want to make a difference then they should start protesting about the slavery that still exists, rather than something that was outlawed here over 200 years ago.
IMO, it's no different to the extinction rebellion rent a mob with their demonstrations in the UK (a country that produces about 1% of global CO2 emissions) rather than holding the demo's in China, India or the USA.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 13:57
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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I am Scottish and my researched family history is interesting in that one of my ancestors owned plantations in the West Indies and was a slave owner. To kind of counter that another branch were Jacobites and captured after Culloden. They were sent as indentured slaves to the colonies and eventually ended up in the southern states of the USA where I am now making contact with distant cousins of those original Scottish enforced settlers.

It has been mentioned above, but Vikings raided my old home land regularly and took the red haired white skinned inhabitants away to sell.

So I'll be seeking apologies and reparations from Scandinavia, the USA and her Majesty the Queen.

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