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Black lives donít really matter London March.

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Black lives donít really matter London March.

Old 13th Jun 2020, 17:22
  #361 (permalink)  
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Labour backbencher nailing their views to the masthead. Not sure Keir Starmer will be happy.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...f-blm-protests
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 18:08
  #362 (permalink)  
 
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nailing their views to the masthead
Nicely miss-quoted to avoid offence there ORAC
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 18:11
  #363 (permalink)  
 
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This is what happens with you let the far left take over the conversation.

The BAME community experience in the UK has been more forged by post-WW2 immigration than slavery.

We are not the US. Our BAME community in vast part came here voluntarily to build a better life for themselves. America is different. African-Americans did not choose to be there and are still treated as second class citizens. Different issues.

Learning about the Windrush generation and the struggles faced in creating a multi-cultural British society would far better inform young people and help them understand and defeat the racism that still is a cancer on our society.

And the horrific murder of George Floyd is right to protest ,but it is an American issue. American policing is VERY different to British because America is a far more more violent society. Equating the very, very rare death of people in police custody in the UK with that of the US is plain wrong. (A more important issue is unfair representation for BAME community in the UK courts because of chronic underfunding.)

The slave trade was a joint enterprise between Africa, Britain and the US. A wicked, shameful part of our history - everyone knows that. Rightly remembered. Rightly we should be ashamed of our part.

But all this sudden surge of shame doesn't mean a jot when it comes to, for example, solving the complex society and policing issues around stop and search.

It doesn't open the questions around the failure of Labour & Conservative governments to invest in the poorest (often BAME) communities or deal with the socioeconomic inequalities that hold back poor white & BAME people in the UK.

The far left seek to undermine the rule of law and our sense of Britishness. They would love our kids to grow up hating their past, being ashamed of being white, spitting on Churchill. We must stand up against that as much as we stand up against the wickedness of racism. Not define the school curriculum by social media trends.

That is not to deny that the British Empire did plenty of shameful things or that Churchill was racist.

But we led the charge to abolish slavery, defeated the Nazis and ISIS. We have the most diverse government ever. We have more work to do. Harder work than a bunch of white, middle class left wing thugs throwing statues into rivers because their Labour council, Labour mayor and Labour MPs didn't listen to years of people calling for a statue to be taken down.

Some of these protesters need to read their history before they start making accusations.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 18:19
  #364 (permalink)  
 
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 22:11
  #365 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
I saw no protest, merely opportunistic looting by a lot of coloured people.

Who is going to disagree with that statement?

Given the author and his previous expressed views, ...no-one! " None so blind ..."
CJ, i think you need to book an appointment with a reputable optician.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 22:32
  #366 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
This is what happens with you let the far left take over the conversation.

The BAME community experience in the UK has been more forged by post-WW2 immigration than slavery.

We are not the US. Our BAME community in vast part came here voluntarily to build a better life for themselves. America is different. African-Americans did not choose to be there and are still treated as second class citizens. Different issues.

Learning about the Windrush generation and the struggles faced in creating a multi-cultural British society would far better inform young people and help them understand and defeat the racism that still is a cancer on our society.

And the horrific murder of George Floyd is right to protest ,but it is an American issue. American policing is VERY different to British because America is a far more more violent society. Equating the very, very rare death of people in police custody in the UK with that of the US is plain wrong. (A more important issue is unfair representation for BAME community in the UK courts because of chronic underfunding.)

The slave trade was a joint enterprise between Africa, Britain and the US. A wicked, shameful part of our history - everyone knows that. Rightly remembered. Rightly we should be ashamed of our part.

But all this sudden surge of shame doesn't mean a jot when it comes to, for example, solving the complex society and policing issues around stop and search.

It doesn't open the questions around the failure of Labour & Conservative governments to invest in the poorest (often BAME) communities or deal with the socioeconomic inequalities that hold back poor white & BAME people in the UK.

The far left seek to undermine the rule of law and our sense of Britishness. They would love our kids to grow up hating their past, being ashamed of being white, spitting on Churchill. We must stand up against that as much as we stand up against the wickedness of racism. Not define the school curriculum by social media trends.

That is not to deny that the British Empire did plenty of shameful things or that Churchill was racist.

But we led the charge to abolish slavery, defeated the Nazis and ISIS. We have the most diverse government ever. We have more work to do. Harder work than a bunch of white, middle class left wing thugs throwing statues into rivers because their Labour council, Labour mayor and Labour MPs didn't listen to years of people calling for a statue to be taken down.

Some of these protesters need to read their history before they start making accusations.
I would say the Soviets did more in ending facism tbf. They had around 90% of the casualties as well as most of the killing. The 'far left' has done more to end facism more than anyone else.

​​​​​​
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 23:02
  #367 (permalink)  
 
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CurlyB,

Its a point often made, about the USSR doing more to end fascism, as if it was a little known fact. Nobody can argue against their claim to have paid the price in blood, several times over, compared with anyone else. But, they would have had to pay a lot more to likely lose the war against fascism if it wasn't for a good many other factors, the Americans and dare I give us a mention, the British, especially Winston Churchill. If it wasn't for Churchill singularly, there would have been no resistance to Hitler in the West at all, save for very brave resistance fighters. At that time, Churchill or no Churchill, Stalin was Hitler's best buddy. He was Hitler's useful idiot. This in turn lead to the massive losses initially when operation Barbarossa caught the Kremlin completely by surprise. Another contributing factor, his imprisonment and execution of most of the officers of a certain rank which left his leaderless army to suffer the great defeats and losses all the way up to Stalingrad.

FB

Last edited by Finningley Boy; 13th Jun 2020 at 23:16.
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 01:01
  #368 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CurlyB View Post
I would say the Soviets did more in ending facism tbf. They had around 90% of the casualties as well as most of the killing. The 'far left' has done more to end facism more than anyone else.

​​​​​​
And yet, by definition, the Soviets had more in common with Facism than anyone else.

Dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy describe both.

And a slave trade in the form of the Gulag to boot.

Here we go again.
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 05:25
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The view from the cell/concentration camp/gulag would look pretty similar whether they belonged to the far left or far right.
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 05:28
  #370 (permalink)  
 
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On the same note, the behaviour of far left or right protesters hardly makes the case for restricting police powers
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 07:11
  #371 (permalink)  
 
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The "left" and "right" arguments are pointless, as these notional names are treated as if they are definitions of polar opposites, when in reality both tend towards totalitarianism. We seem to like putting groups into pigeonholes, so we can then be critical because, once pigeonholed, they aren't "the same as us". This is no different to racism, it's just some inherent desire some have to categorise someone as being "not like us" and then despising them for it.

There are many examples, but the most powerful single party state on earth calls itself communist, but in reality exhibits more of the characteristics that might be expected from a "right wing" totalitarian capitalist state. I can't see that Marx or Engels would approve of the version of communism that China claims to adhere to. China has, in reality, adopted a ruthless policy of national socialism, where anyone that is not Chinese has no rights within the country and where non-ethnic Chinese people are being expunged from their society, imprisoned in camps and "re-educated". The last major world power that followed a similar path was universally defined as being on the "far right".
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 07:56
  #372 (permalink)  
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 08:05
  #373 (permalink)  
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​​​​​​if true F^ck Google and their owners for being so spineless
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 08:08
  #374 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ZFT View Post
​​​​​​if true F^ck Google and their owners for being so spineless
It has been. Absolute disgrace.

So why hasn't slave-owning George Washington been removed from the carousel of US Presidents?
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 08:34
  #375 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder what the militant BLM protestors would make of this:
605520 Sergeant L O Lynch DFM, Air Gunner from Jamaica. Just one of many volunteer Caribbean airmen serving in WW2.



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Old 14th Jun 2020, 08:47
  #376 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by stevef View Post
I wonder what the militant BLM protestors would make of this:
605520 Sergeant L O Lynch DFM, Air Gunner from Jamaica. Just one of many volunteer Caribbean airmen serving in WW2.
I'd think they would be proud of him. Why would they not ?
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 08:52
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Because they defaced the Bomber Command Memorial.
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 09:01
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Yes, Churchillís image really has been removed. Hitler and Stalin still there though.
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 09:05
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Originally Posted by stevef View Post
Because they defaced the Bomber Command Memorial.
Well a person or persons unknown did.

But feel free to tar all BLM protestors with the same brush, so to speak.
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 09:10
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Well, if you read what I wrote, I said militant protesters.
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