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Electric scooters.

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Electric scooters.

Old 16th May 2020, 15:07
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
Not everyone has home insurance. It is not compulsory, for example, if you rent a property rather than owning it or having a mortgage on one.
Sensible to have contents insurance, but not compulsory. I would imagine that quite a few people, particularly those renting small flats, houses and bedsits, wouldn't have home insurance.
Well, I'll be blown. My bad, I thought if was a EU wide obligation... In France, owners AND renters have, by law, to subscribe a Home Insurance with a Public Liability included in the contract... As in Italy, Belgium or Germany where I have lived.... I am going to ask my next door neighbour here in the UK if he is covered.... suddenly I am much less sereine... What if a stray dog creates an accident by getting in front of my car? Do I have to pay for the damages myself or involve my own insurance when I am in no way responsable?

Last edited by alicopter; 16th May 2020 at 15:19.
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Old 16th May 2020, 15:50
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Well, I'll be blown. My bad, I thought if was a EU wide obligation
UK probably had an opt out!!!
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Old 16th May 2020, 15:54
  #23 (permalink)  
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Thanks Alicopter but it's being in the ideal streamlined riding position for any length of time that's causing the problems - so does looking up! The bike was set up perfectly for me with the help of Geoffrey Butler and fitted me really well, pleasure to ride it. I gather most of my siblings are suffering neck and shoulder problems. I really need straight handlebars rather than drops so I can sit up and still reach the brakes/gears - don't want to spend any money on it but I might see if Recycle can do a swap for a hybrid.

I doubt I'd get a sniff at an NHS physio inside 12 months!
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Old 16th May 2020, 15:57
  #24 (permalink)  
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My household insurance certainly has included legal and third party liabilities covered for being out and about - not sure if the current provider does.
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Old 16th May 2020, 16:51
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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I switched to using an alloy frame lightweight folding bike a few years ago, with a pretty upright riding position and straight bars. Not the fastest machine around, but it has meant I cycle much more, both because it's easy to chuck in the car and go for a ride somewhere different, and because the upright riding position is a great deal easier on my neck. I added a small electric geared hub motor to it a while ago, and that has the advantages that it causes almost no additional drag when pedalling (with electric assistance turned off) and the comforting reassurance that I can always add a bit of boost to climb a hill or get back to my starting point if I get a bit too tired. I rarely use the electric assist, but do find that I tend to ride longer distances since I fitted it. I built the bike from a frame I imported from the USA, made by a low volume manufacturer that happened to be a member of a bike forum a few years ago. The nice thing about it is that it folds with a horizontal hinge pin, so the frame retains pretty much all its lateral stiffness.
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Old 16th May 2020, 17:29
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Returning to electric scooters be aware that with tiny wheels and no suspension they are relatively easy to upset. They are less stable than a full sized pedal assisted bicycle which is a better bet and legal for road use already.
A further disadvantage of those tiny wheels is the susceptibility to potholes. Where I live now the roads are in a reasonable state of repair. However I lived and cycled in Edinburgh where the road surfaces are atrocious.
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Old 16th May 2020, 23:28
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Went to Riga last year scooters for hire were all over the city even the cobbled bit. They have alarms if you pick them up, the local kids demonstrated that.
Think there has been a number of electric scooter road traffic deaths in the UK so far.
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Old 17th May 2020, 00:41
  #28 (permalink)  
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Necks. We couldn't afford much for our judo mat back in the 50's. The mats regularly separated and the canvas used to go into the gaps, complete with foot or feet. I was about 5' above it, upside down when my mentor disappeared. I was . . . I am, very lucky not to have been made quadriplegic. Years go by and I find myself doing unreasonable amounts of DIY. Every so often my neck would just feel wrong. Mechanically out of place somehow. I'd go to a half-height redbrick wall that surrounded our arty-farty sunken lounge and holler for the Rivetess to 'do my neck'. Erm, please. My head is rather heavy, especially when my wife is hanging on it. I'd give the left and right twist feedback necessary to get the click I knew so well. Fine, perhaps for a year or so.

Not that long ago I went to Canada. Toronto at Christmas time. There was no snow. I was messing about on a tiny inflatable dingy, on the frappe they tried to make, but had given up. Despite my deep understanding of gravity I found that ski slopes are very slopey and accelerativistical. It seems that when I hit the ground my head got bent back. 'You have no right to be alive' one of the party said as he helped my son walk me to the car. He was a CA lawyer and showing an unnatural interest. He used a convoluted straw to demonstrate what 170 degrees looks like. Goodness knows how I carried on with the holiday. Then, back home, I wore a peaked cap, insisting the peak should be at the front. I've hardly ever been known to wear a hat. Written warnings for it at work. But on this day I was mowing my Texas lawn with the peak over my eyes. My head stopped on a sawn-off bough. It was Mesquite which possesses a certain ungodly inertial power. But again, the Rivetess got it right for me. It needs attention now. I just know that if I hang upside down and turn my head left and right - while someone pummels my neck - it'll be perfect.

It's real sad about the Segway bloke. IIRC, he'd made his money from inventing a light blast-proof material that helped keep our troops safe. He was also incredibly kind, even to the point of backing up for someone on the footpath.

I bought my Giant back from Texas when one could have it as one hold baggage. Free cardboard box with handle. I'd ridden it for 30 years, when a friend gave me his seriously lovely Giant. The trouble is, it's worth more than my car and I daren't leave it anywhere.
Oh, I'm one of the small minority that has ridden the Aston Martin bike. Way back, it was a few thousands. It had come down to east Essex to have a motor fitted by City Bike, one of two new manufacturers of electric bikes. Prince Charles had one. Sir Clive Sinclair owned the other company. The technology wasn't up to much but the modern ones seem very good.

Our council has decided to mix pedestrian and cycle traffic along our seafront. $$^@#$^! people leave about a femtometre between us, and are gone before I can throw a brick at them. It's daft, because normal summer days the wide shared footpath is crowded, while a ride to the pub in the next village is supposed to be done on a very busy B road that has a rarely used path. I always use the footpath and the only person I've nearly hit was a policewoman - in a police car. She'd come out of a private drive too fast and skidded on the gravel and then across the path. We smiled sheepishly at each other and carried on.
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Old 17th May 2020, 01:37
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Hate them, ban the lot of them. ( speaking as a non-owner/rider) My only experience so far is a Californian city where they are a total menace on the sidewalks ( pavement in UK speak ). "Supposed" to not be ridden on the sidewalk, and require a helmet. NOBODY wears helmets and Americans obviously aren't taught to read anymore, because they all bear a notice forbidding them from sidewalks, which clearly nobody can read, or ....are they just being universally stupid ? Scooters are abandoned anywhere and everywhere with total disregard for pedestrians, blocking entrances and gateways, ridden across pedestrian crossings against the traffic lights, and often with two up, sometimes a young child balanced in front of the rider. ( without helmet,too ) The few who do ride on the road totally ignore other traffic, endangering not only their own lives - and yes occasionally some are killed - but motorists too.

Sadly, a couple of New Zealand cities are playing with them, and although I haven't had the misfortune to visit yet, the local Press is sufficiently full of complaints to suggest that NZ riders are following the example given by the American riders, and our national Insurance scheme is being overwhelmed by claims for serious injury treatment being required by riders.

They have wheels, get them on the bloody road, if you think your life is in danger by doing so - scrap it. Hopefully.

I recall that as a teenager I fitted a 25cc two-stroke motor to my school pushbike, but ... I had then to register it as a motor cycle, attach number plates fore and aft, wear a helmet, and pass a motor cycle driving licence practical driving test. Any attempt to ride it on the pavement would have brought the full force of the law down on me. Why not e-Bikes now ? ( and powered scooters ) A pox on the lot of them.

You may be getting the idea that I don't approve of electric scooters ( or e-bikes on the pavement ) ?
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Old 17th May 2020, 02:17
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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ExSp33db1rd

I'm with you on this. We have them down here, doing 30 mph down the middle of the road, then on the pavement, swerving between the 80 year olds and small children,, still at 30 mph, scaring them half to death. Pedestrian crossings have become slip roads between footpaths/raceways. If they could, they would ride them up and down the aisles in the Carrefour. I would love to grab one from a speedster and chuck it over the seawall, well ramparts really, 40ft drop to the Med. A Pox indeed.

While I have considerable respect for ORAC, I suggest he should come down here and see what Brighton could be in a couple of years. (He's safe with the seawall though)

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Old 17th May 2020, 07:41
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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I wouldn't bank on any insurance paying out if your claim was the result of riding an illegal vehicle in a public place.
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Old 17th May 2020, 07:55
  #32 (permalink)  
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About the silent but deadly scooter (FarEastDriver above), anyone remember the home made clackers we used to fit to our pedal bikes? Something fastened to the front forks and into the spokes. The faster you went the louder the noise, like a motor bike 😀
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Old 17th May 2020, 08:00
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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That’s kind of the point, fourteenbore: The proposed changes are about them being made not illegal. The fact of them currently being outlawed possibly contributes to them sometimes being ridden in outlaw fashion. But they’re already legal in most of Europe. And mostly sensibly ridden too. They certainly help reduce number of cars on the road -which cause thousands of deaths and injuries.
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Old 17th May 2020, 09:16
  #34 (permalink)  
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A point I made at post #6 Electric scooters.

The chances of them not being legalised with the planned trials and urgency to get people off buses, and particularly the London Underground, approaches zero.

Last edited by ORAC; 17th May 2020 at 09:44.
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Old 17th May 2020, 09:22
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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anyone remember the home made clackers we used to fit to our pedal bikes? Something fastened to the front forks and into the spokes.
So you want to increase noise pollution as well ? Won't work on any I have seen anyway, the small wheels are solid, no spokes. Anyway, it would only encourage them - viz. " I had my audible warning working, why didn't you get out of my way ? "
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Old 17th May 2020, 10:56
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Orac: People don't read anymore

My view is they will be legalised either with personal ownership or through online fleets. People will obviously need the proper insurance and gear to use them.

In slightly more relaxed France, they have been available in a number of cities for well over a year now through various companies. Download an app from the company, find one of their scooters parked on the pavement (there's 100's), use it then leave it somewhere safe - all for 5€'s or so. After 12 pm, the company picks them up from around the city, recharges them and puts them back on the road by 5am.
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Old 17th May 2020, 11:15
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Either way, some clarity would be nice. Many of the issues of inappropriate use on pavements stem from the possibility of being prosecuted for using one on the road.
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Old 17th May 2020, 11:41
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
As ought to be the cases for pedal cycles, whether they are to be used on the public road or the pavement (or sidewalk!).
Here here. Tax, registration, and insurance all all pedal bikes that use the roads!! They are all high and mighty but hardly any of them follow the rules of the road. They also block traffic on narrow roads or with some elderly drivers afraid to pass them so everyone is crawling along for miles!!
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Old 17th May 2020, 12:33
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by alicopter View Post
But you ARE insured in any case??? Inside your house or in the street, any public place, yourself, your wife or any of your children or even your dog or cat (your household) are under your home insurance policy (compulsory).
1. General liability cover is a feature of many house contents insurance policies, but by no meams all and it is definitely NOT compulsory.
2. The general liability cover that may be in a particular policy will always have a list of exclusions. An almost universal item in those exclusions will be liabilities arising from the operation of vehicles - cars, bikes, boats, light aircraft, broomsticks and even Vauxhaulls (which don't generally qualify as vehicles). Otherwise no one would bother paying for car insurance.
3. You cannot insure against the consequences of breaking the law. As long as cycling, scootering, skateboarding and standing still remain illegal on the pavement you will not be able to claim from an insurance policy for the consequences of these acts, so the policy will not pay out.
4. If you make a habit of claiming under your home contents policy you will be flagged (on the Insurance Database where all insurance companies will find it) as a high risk, and then the future premiums for ALL your insurance (home, car, pet, phone, lacrosse sticks etc) will be hiked. The usual first hiking increment is 100%. So it's generally a good idea to only use your home insurance for insuring your home.

YMMV, E&OE, IANAL,

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Old 17th May 2020, 13:10
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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“They also block traffic...”. If your tax and registration succeeds in forcing everyone now cycling back into their cars, nobody’s going anywhere!
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