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Smoke coming from next door's log burner.

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Smoke coming from next door's log burner.

Old 7th May 2020, 07:55
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Further to my post above - Just spoke to my family who have the wood burner company - He said get hold of Hetas and give her postcode and one can enquire if a new installation has been done at that address, and who signed it off (installer) https://www.hetas.co.uk/

As to change of wind direction issue - it could be (and often is) that when smoke is expelled from next door it is being sucked back down her own chimney which is going in to her front room.

There are many other reasons as to why this is occurring and of course the first one is the question of a dodgy or incorrect installation of the new stove next door -
whether a clay or steel liner has been used (or no liner at all - not recommended)
whether the register plate above their stove is at fault
the age of the properties determine differing building control regs and more

Last edited by rog747; 7th May 2020 at 08:16.
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:54
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Paultheparaglider View Post
Where do you place them, NutLoose? I though CO was heavier than air and hence settles on the ground so the alarm is best placed low down before it builds up to head level while seated. Smoke alarms, on the other hand, are surely better placed higher up?
In this case the CO detector should be placed where the smoke is coming into the room, to detect it at source. And do it now, this is a critical safety matter.
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Old 7th May 2020, 11:30
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Paultheparaglider View Post
Where do you place them, NutLoose? I though CO was heavier than air and hence settles on the ground so the alarm is best placed low down before it builds up to head level while seated. Smoke alarms, on the other hand, are surely better placed higher up?
Air is mostly N2 and 02.
N has an atomic mass of 14, so N2 is 28.
O is 16, so O2 is 32
C is 12, so CO is 12+16 = 28.
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Old 7th May 2020, 11:35
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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I have the one I use for smoke in the hall above the kitchen door, the one I use for CO I have low down on the side of the chimney stack so its not really visible.
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Old 7th May 2020, 16:42
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Loose rivets View Post
No, I won't be tempted to sneak in there with me tool kit. I've a mass of plumbing parts that I can't even lift stored in a mate's workshops, but I suspect even changing a washer is verboten in my rented bungalow. Well, ceramic thingy.

Experts? Hmmm . . . We're in a world where 22mm 'copper' gas supplies are legal down the side of driveways just inches away from tyres. Gas going through soldered joints. What could possibly go wrong? Young man came around to look at the boiler in the attic of a bungalow I was borrowing. He'd got a van that must have been one heck of an investment. Nice young chap, with clomping great boots. He managed to see-saw an attic floor board and then stood with his foot on a 15mm copper gas pipe telling me off for having an unsafe attic. Good luck with the next 40 years of climbing in people's properties, young man. I straightened the pipe when he'd left. One has been immune from experts since sproghood.

Black pipe or nowt, where I'm concerned.

I spent quite a while on the phone with her today. She was unwilling to come onto this thread because of the need to give personal details before even snooping in the background. Can this be true? I don't want to risk signing myself out while being isolated from so much other communication.

I'll stress the need for environmental health enquiry tomorrow. Forecast looks like temperatures between 25 and 12, so no certain respite from logs. At this time she's pro the taller chimney plan. She's of the opinion that the chimney is not lined.

The Particulate Matter quantities have astonished me. I was aware how wrong I'd been thinking humans were somehow evolutionarily immune from log fire smoke, but had no idea just how bad it was.

No more use of 1/4" pipe. That's bought back memories of hoarding a box of beautiful old pipes, bends and cocks, all kind of polished gunmetal. They'd supplied the only heater in the shop I spent the war in. The four cast iron pillars sat in the middle of the shop, venting into the surrounding air. I think it was there for 52 years.

I'm rambling again. Time I was over on Quora.
Loose rivets, your pal need not come on this thread , can you not print out the posts , is she able to view this thread without having to log in ?
rog747 has excellent advice re hertas.
You wouldn't leave a smoke in the cockpit issue until tomorrow, we all know tomorrow never comes, this has been on my mind all day , and will be again tomorrow.
Loose rivets , I dont know you or your pal , that makes no difference, all I know someones life could be at risk .
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Old 7th May 2020, 22:44
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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To someone who knows this will be a straightforward issue. I'm confused: why all the chat about gas fires when the title is log burner!
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Old 7th May 2020, 23:37
  #27 (permalink)  
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Thanks everyone, and rog747,
BTW it is a CO not a CO2 detector/alarm you need (to detect carbon monoxide)
indeed due to a reduction of my brain cells. I'll get back to your post tomorrow.

Her Coal-effect gas heater came with the house less than a year ago. It looks new-ish. I think I recall her saying the survey included full gas inspection. The bungalows were built on a greenfield site c 1965 from memory.

You'll gather I'm not very impressed with building techniques, especially plumbing. My family home was a hotchpotch of modern ideas and bizarre mistakes. I spent a huge amount of time in it before I bought it, and loved it, but thinking back I really wish I hadn't done so. I cringe when I think of the manual I wrote for the new owner. A 12v system interfaced to the circulation control valves so that water wouldn't convect around all day. I zoned heating into three areas with their own stats, etc., etc. It had 32 light sockets in the open planned lounge, with Pyrotenax going to wall lights in redbrick pillars. These came from those old flat type boxes that had a tangled web of connections in, and the bakalite lid obviously pressed down with a foot while the screws were done up - bare earth wires pressing into the red rubber insulation. Oh, my. Despite being built c 1960, it still had over a square metre of bakalite boxes on the garage wall. It took a looooong time to put in two StarBreakers with RCCBs, which I'd spotted in RS. I had no idea such a device had been invented. Probably one of the best inventions in human history. They might have saved Windsor Castle.

The garage doors were industrial. you beeped them via a vibrator in the car while hovering over a loop in the drive. When my pal was given the thing to have wired onto his car, he realised it was the bit that should have been buried in the drive. I put a Geni system in I'd picked up in Texas, housing in the steel box that had had the cold cathode valve in it. It worked for twenty-five years. A 500gal oil tank was in the garage and caused my new telly supplier to change the tube in the Sony 21" tv. which was on the other side of the wall. The biggest tube in the world then. When they bought the set back, the convergency was off again. I suddenly realised but just kept very, very quiet. It was a huge company so don't feel too bad. Oh, 500 gallons was 35. And I got green shield stamps. But, the garage ceiling and doors were lined in asbestos. More finger wagging. Also, I had a bad dream about a fuel leak and not being able to get to the kids. I bought Big Bessie Ideal Standard boiler for 65 from a small hotel and it ran for the next 30 years. One detector bulb changed.

Erm, I think I've drifted slightly. Back to friend. We talk most days but various difficult issues rise to the top of the stack as they hit. Isolation from family including a new grand-baby is taking its toll. I'll try to focus on the issue tomorrow. She has a degree in a technical field, and is normally very up-beat, but this era is not conducive to her usual ebullience.


Back to Quora and any opportunity to argue for spacetime inflow.
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Old 7th May 2020, 23:45
  #28 (permalink)  
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At least set up good ventilation in her part of the building, especially the bedroom, or any place else where she spends a significant amount of time.

The weather should be getting warmer, so sleep with the windows open. Use extra blankets if needed.

Place a window fan in one room facing outwards to draw the stale air out, and keep the window in the bedroom open at least a little bit to let fresh air in.

If lockdown keeps the powers that be from investigating and checking on the quality of the installation, this is a reasonable safety measure.

I understand why some people don't want to annoy [confront] the neighbors if they live alone.
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Old 10th May 2020, 10:02
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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I have a wood burner, and am concerned I do not know at all enough about them!. Its a heavy (Iron?) thing made in Canada I believe. (Ozburn?)

Kinda like this...
https://mrstoves.com.au/wood-heater/osburn-1600.html

But waaaay older.

OK in South East Queensland, Australia, for most of the year hot & humid, but June July August it may get into single figures a few times. This for us is cold. (I know what real cold is, spending time inside the arctic circle in Finnish Lapland), but here nothing is built for the cold. A Canadian was on the radio a few years back saying how much colder he feels here than in Canada, because we are simply not equipped for Cold weather here.

I love sitting in front of my wood heater, mesmerised by the flames...so very lovely indeed, and I would not want to be without one now.

But I recently heard / saw, they should be professionally cleaned from time to time?? Is this true? SEQ probably doesn't have a great many chimney sweeps.....Is it something I should get done?? Been here about 16 yrs, mostly burn dry hot logs, so perhaps not so much oils etc accumulating?



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Old 10th May 2020, 19:00
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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I used to sweep the chimney myself but now the insurance company insists I pay someone. Difficult to say. Best if the chimney flue is lined. If you got a chimney fire is there any wood near by, joists with ends exposed in the flue, wooden roof shingles? A set of rods and a brush aren't expensive.
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Old 10th May 2020, 23:52
  #31 (permalink)  
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I'm sure I've mentioned this, and the old boy who died because of a brush stuck up his chimney, but yes, I cleaned my flue, terracotta lined, for years.
I used to blank off the fireplace and clamber up to the roof with me brush. Let gravity pull on the rods. The best clean it ever had was when we came home to soot two metres out from the grate. Footprints on my piano and blinking eyes in a blob of soot on the windowsill gave us a clue. My fault, we used to feed the squirrels until they'd fit the chimney pot.

Because it's JB, I'll mention wooden rods and brass connectors. The water failed in our Texas lodge, very high up in the hill country. I gripped the broken steel rod that had snapped from the Nodding Donkey. I could not pull it up with Mole grips however hard I tried. I called the well maintenance company and went out. When we came back there was a pile of rods on the drive as big as the shack. Utterly amazing. Oh, another amazing thing. Years later I was walking down Naked Indian Trail, Canyon Lake, late on a beautiful night. It was a mile to the road from our house and I'd got about a third of the way. I heard a strange whirring sound and then forgot about it. I heard it again at the next powerline pole. I put my ear to the pole. Without the slightest doubt, I could hear the whirring of gears in a submerged pump. There were only 3 houses on this line. The pumps were 4" in diameter and cost thousands. They live at the bottom of thousand-foot wells.

My friend has the first of the posts sent as a docx file. She is instinctively against signing into PPRuNe, and Skype, though uses ZOOM for the family. Surprising really as she's worked in the technical world for years. I've got other pals that recoil from such software. I guess not much will happen this weekend. Tuesday we'll be back to (ab)normal.
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Old 11th May 2020, 06:12
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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The roof is metal and probably only about 1.5ft from where the chimney enters the roof space through the ceiling and then the metal roof, it's a low roof and no way of getting inside. I'll try to spot it through the manhole (There is a manhole to look through, but you could not fit in it.

What are Rods????
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Old 11th May 2020, 09:37
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fliegenmong View Post
The roof is metal and probably only about 1.5ft from where the chimney enters the roof space through the ceiling and then the metal roof, it's a low roof and no way of getting inside. I'll try to spot it through the manhole (There is a manhole to look through, but you could not fit in it.

What are Rods????
https://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_...d-brushes.html
Sweeping brushes etc. Also good for blocked drains ( with the appropriate end bit).
Yeah, I got a brush stuck up the chimney once, and no, this isn't a tortured metaphor. Took some getting back so always twist clockwise when you push and pull. Makes you better company too.
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Old 11th May 2020, 10:44
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Mr Optimistic. When I open the fron (Glass) door and look up the chimney it seems to be blocked from view by an iron 'roof' of the burning chamber, I think the smoke escapes from the rear of that 'roof', it must then funnel into the chimney I suppose. The top of the chimney is a contraption that I believe is there to allow smoke to escape, but not allow rainwater down. I am not sure how to remove this piece to gain access.

I suppose I will require a long 'Vacuum' type machine as any soot cleared from inside the chimney will accumulate in an ever growing 'carpet of soot' upon the 'roof' that is the burning chamber?

Oh dear, I have now had a look at some manuals for these things, and they should be cleaned once a year!?!....never once in 16/17 years we've been here have we ever had it cleaned....stark cold ignorance!, had no idea at all!!...will be on to this this week!!

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Old 11th May 2020, 12:18
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nonsense View Post
Air is mostly N2 and 02.
N has an atomic mass of 14, so N2 is 28.
O is 16, so O2 is 32
C is 12, so CO is 12+16 = 28.
Doesn't work quite like that. If you think it does, I'd suggest locking yourself in a toilet mixing together bleach and another cleaning product in a bowl on the floor and standing up. From your logic you'd be fine as Cl has a molecular weight of 35.5. (Don't actually do this).
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Old 11th May 2020, 13:59
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ex Cargo Clown View Post
Doesn't work quite like that. If you think it does, I'd suggest locking yourself in a toilet mixing together bleach and another cleaning product in a bowl on the floor and standing up. From your logic you'd be fine as Cl has a molecular weight of 35.5. (Don't actually do this).
I actually did that in my youth. I can confirm chlorine gas is green and very unpleasant. There is a matter of Maxwell boltzman distributions to consider.
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Old 11th May 2020, 14:17
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ex Cargo Clown View Post
Doesn't work quite like that. If you think it does, I'd suggest locking yourself in a toilet mixing together bleach and another cleaning product in a bowl on the floor and standing up. From your logic you'd be fine as Cl has a molecular weight of 35.5. (Don't actually do this).
What "doesn't work like that"?
All I did was demonstrate that CO2 has a similar molecular mass to N2, and slightly less than O2.
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Old 11th May 2020, 16:57
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Think he is arguing about diffusion as opposed to stratification.
Hmm, can't believe that will help much but it's typed now.
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Old 11th May 2020, 18:05
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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In Germany I've seen the sweep lowering the brush down the chimney on a cable with a weight underneath.
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Old 11th May 2020, 18:14
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Get next door's kids to climb up and down with a brush.

They have nothing else to do.
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