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China syndrome Mk 2

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China syndrome Mk 2

Old 5th May 2020, 13:08
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China syndrome Mk 2

When this awful farrago has all but disappeared and the public inquiry is in place, will it be time to take stock ? I refer particularly to reparations. Somewhere, someone, somehow must show that, the carelessness that perhaps fostered the release of the virus must be paid for. The question is how?

As an individual who, from time to time buys from China, I have concerns about product quality. With Taiwanese made products I have no such concerns. So, for me, personally, the question is answered.

Whether there is any appetite on the part of governments to impose sanctions, I very much doubt. The interests of 'realpolitik' will probably have their way.

Last edited by Capt Kremmen; 5th May 2020 at 18:20.
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Old 5th May 2020, 13:34
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Iíll take a rough guess and say the majority of those who will comment on this thread will do so from an electronic device made in part or full in China.
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Old 5th May 2020, 13:37
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Iíll probably get deleted for being racist but as much as I can, as soon as I see made in China, Iím cancelling any online orders.

Iím so dismayed that vitally important things such as ventilators, PPE and test kits supplied by them and have been substandard or useless, I donít want to do any business with the country.
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Old 5th May 2020, 13:39
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Iíll take a rough guess and say the majority of those who will comment on this thread will do so from an electronic device made in part or full in China.
Sadly, youíre absolutely spot on. I very much regret that my iPhone/iPad is made in China. Next time I purchase, my devices wonít be.
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Old 5th May 2020, 14:26
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes
Iíll probably get deleted for being racist but as much as I can, as soon as I see made in China, Iím cancelling any online orders.
Me too. I'll add to that any product that I see in a supermarket. If it's made in China I'll find a substitute or do without. My partner (who I haven't seen for two months and likely won't see for at least another three as she's self-isolating in Ireland and can't get out) feels the same way as do all her (large) family and those of her friends she's been in contact with. I suspect a large part of the population feel the same way.
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Old 5th May 2020, 14:31
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The big problem is that electronic merchandise made outside is more expensive than that produced in China. Long term reliability is a minor point; fashion changes so it does not come into the equasion.

Would people be so upset with China that they will make production the West profitable? I doubt it.
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Old 5th May 2020, 14:55
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Originally Posted by Capt Kremmen View Post
When this awful farrago has all but disappeared and the public inquiry is in place, will it be time to take stock ? I refer particularly to reparations. Somewhere, someone, somehow must show that, the at best carelessness that fostered the release of the virus must be paid for. The question is how?

As an individual who, from time to time buys from China, I have concerns about product quality. With Taiwanese made products I have no such concerns. So, for me, personally, the question is answered.

Whether there is any appetite on the part of governments to impose sanctions, I very much doubt. The interests of 'realpolitik' will probably have their way.
Outstanding question. Most apposite.

Public inquiry: I would hope for the best virological and intel assets to be involved.

At present, it appears that President Trump and Mike Pence are 'running interference', by reinforcing the lab-origin narrative without offering supporting evidence. I don't see how that helps.

I do not rule out the lab-origin narrative. An accident in that setting is just as awful as one in the Wuhan wet market.

Perhaps the final conclusion will be driven by eliminating possible alternative sources of the outbreak. I note that the Chinese ambassador to the UK suggests that Wuhan is not the sole possible source.

Reparations: The mind boggles. Are there any comparable cases of global, accidental harm? Who could decide? - not just which official body, but who individually could make such an assessment? Perhaps there aren't any feasible, full reparations which would leave China's economy intact. There may have to be a forced gesture of reparations from China; an admission of culpability and an expression of contrition.

BehindBlueEyes:

Iíll probably get deleted for being racist but as much as I can, as soon as I see made in China, Iím cancelling any online orders.

Iím so dismayed that vitally important things such as ventilators, PPE and test kits supplied by them and have been substandard or useless, I donít want to do any business with the country
.

I'm as unimpressed by this as anyone. China seems to be extra-abundant in dodgy manufacturers, which tar the image of Chinese industry generally. There are some good firms there; it's incumbent on the buyer to check on his/her supplier, as regulation appears to be 'light touch', if any. Due to the rushed timescale in which UK GOV has been working, there probably wasn't much time for such checks.
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Old 5th May 2020, 15:10
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
The big problem is that electronic merchandise made outside is more expensive than that produced in China. Long term reliability is a minor point; fashion changes so it does not come into the equasion.

Would people be so upset with China that they will make production the West profitable? I doubt it.
Fair argument

I don't like to knowingly cut-off my nose

But my concerns about China looking out for my health interest have been diminished notably. So any action taken against them should be along those lines.
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Old 5th May 2020, 15:15
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The bigger problem for those wishing to boycott will be not so much 'made in China' but 'owned by the Chinese'.

They have bought an awful lot world wide, but in general, the majority of people won't know. It's going to be difficult for them.
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Old 5th May 2020, 15:32
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Unfortunately, and ironically itís capitalism, but a large amount of the housing stock in London has been bought up by either Chinese or Russian investors. A consequence being that prices are heavily inflated and squeezing out purchasers who want just want homes. I guess the only way of stemming this property speculation is to heavily tax overseas buyers.
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Old 5th May 2020, 15:32
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Give it a few years and people would have all but forgotten and probably couldn't be ar5ed to adjust their purchase decisions as a result. Given we in the UK are just about to set sail, Crimson Pearl style, on the high seas of international trade, I don't think we'll be able to be too fussy who we buy stuff from.

If you want a bellweather to see which way the wind is blowing, lets wait to see what happens about Huawei given the US's recent warnings.
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Old 5th May 2020, 15:35
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Originally Posted by Saintsman View Post
The bigger problem for those wishing to boycott will be not so much 'made in China' but 'owned by the Chinese'.
Yup, let's all boycott the electricity from Hinkley C.
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Old 5th May 2020, 15:45
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Just bought a Union Jack/Flag for our (social distancing) VE Day Street Party. 5ft x 3ft, will go nicely over the front window, as we take our teacakes and fizz on the front lawn....

..... oh yes; Made in China!!
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Old 5th May 2020, 15:48
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I wonder how many people realise that their Volvo is actually made by a Chinese owned subsidiary of Geely Holdings?
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Old 5th May 2020, 15:51
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Iíll take a rough guess and say the majority of those who will comment on this thread will do so from an electronic device made in part or full in China.
That doesnít have to be a permanent paradigm. Thereís a rising tide against China, couple that with a desire to move manufacturing away from there. The Japanese seem to be leading the charge, letís hope they are successful.
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Old 5th May 2020, 16:06
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It's all very well everyone saying they are going to boycott goods manufactured in China, provided your happy for your kids to have next to nothing in the Christmas stocking; you want to disconnect yourself from the web, the TV, the music industry etc etc.

Sadly so much of the west's manufacturing has been off-shored to China at the altar of cost saving, profit and return to shareholders that it simply isn't possible; and the first company that tries bringing their manufacturing to the USA or Europe will hear screams of anguish from "The City" when profits are reduced, and shareholder's dividends with them.

China didn't "rise", they opened up the door to western business, and they walked right through it.
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Old 5th May 2020, 16:27
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As Iíve said before, China has effectively achieved world domination without even wasting a missile - and weíve let them do it.

Worth watching this episode of Hard Talk and listening to the Chinese ambassador squirming and being generally evasive in his responses.

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Old 5th May 2020, 16:32
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
I wonder how many people realise that their Volvo is actually made by a Chinese owned subsidiary of Geely Holdings?
Another example (quoting Wiki):
"....Jaguar Land Rover Automotive PLC is the holding company of Jaguar Land Rover Limited, a British multinational automotive company with its headquarters in Whitley, Coventry, United Kingdom, and a subsidiary of Indian automotive company Tata Motors."

And so what?

To totally escape from Chinese etc. hardware crap, there should be a global trend to abandon capitalism, because Red China seemed to outperform old players on their field and under their own rules

I wonder if those who were feeding the troll since late 80's really believed it would never look at them as a potential lunch?

P.S. The latter of course applies to stupid and short-sighted Russian governments who were supplying weaps.

Last edited by A_Van; 5th May 2020 at 16:51.
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Old 5th May 2020, 16:37
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China has had a policy of "soft power" for a long time now, ever since they adopted capitalism, under the guise of communism. They are exceptional adept at stealthy manipulation, and have decades of experience of doing this with their own population. As above by ATNotts , China hasn't needed to use aggression, they have very cleverly been playing a long game, and getting many countries around the globe to be so dependent on China's goods that it will be exceptionally difficult to break this reliance. Given that we're about to enter a pretty deep recession, and China is, by contrast, probably going to be in an extremely strong position after this, I doubt we have much choice but to continue to be beholden to China. I admire the initiative that Japan has taken, but don't believe for one moment that we will be able to follow the same path.

(This post was typed on a Taiwanese keyboard, connected to a Chinese made PC and monitor . . . )
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Old 5th May 2020, 16:46
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"They are exceptional adept at stealthy manipulation, and have decades of experience of doing this with their own population."

yeah - really subtle - like Tienanmen Square.............
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