Loose rivets

BBC News 6PM. A railway station. An officer that looks equipt to handle terrorists speaking forcefully into the faces of the passengers he's making decisions about. A foot away with no mask.

Such bewildering ignorance. The passengers WILL be breathing in droplets from that man.

I feel so helpless. I'll try to talk to some senior officer tonight, but it's doubtful I'll make that contact. Is there anyway our community can help? I write this aware the press often look into R&N.

3Greens

whilst I agree and concur with the thrust of your post, what on earth has that got to do with aviation? Perhaps write to Sky news or the daily mail?

Paul852

It's really quite sad to see how the UK media has whipped the population up into this state of mass hysteria.

Loose rivets

The prime reason is that it affects everyone in the world. There can be no underestimation of how serious this is. You go back to the aviation questions while I try to find some far-reaching medium this evening that will stop the madness I've just witnessed.

The press look in on this site quite a lot. I've been on PPRuNe for a very long time. Never have I felt the need to scream out some issue or another like this. What I saw was madness.

I have spoken to Chelmsford police and to two other possible relevant contacts. Railway police is not answering direct calls. There are some police officers ( I think) on PPRuNe.

More and more I'm seeing the public stopped and questioned by personnel without masks. We have a Prime minister who shakes hands with victims in hospital. Despite his position, Matt Handcock takes an immunosuppressive drug in the early stages of a virus.

There is more common sense talked on PPRuNe that in Parliament.

Paul852

You are aware, I assume, that the WHO advice is that masks are not necessary if you are not ill?

https://www.who.int/emergencies/dise...w-to-use-masks

Denti

That is true, however, you become infective roughly 2 days before you show any symptoms, so probably not a bad idea to use one anyway, just to protect others (it won't protect you).

RobertP

A mask may be counter productive depending on type and how long the user has been wearing it. Best to keep your distance and make the conversation calm and measured.

ChrisVJ

Just to bring it back to aviation: A passenger was complaining that their partially full aircraft had been loaded with all the passengers seated together and portions of the aircraft left entirely empty. While I don't believe in some of the "going overboard" things some people are doing that seems unnecessary and possibly unhelpful.

Loose rivets

I've been spending most of today addressing the problem of police intervention. I'm frankly beating my head on a wall.

Tap tap on a window. A previously sterile subject is now sprayed. Too gross?

Read 'our' radgirl. It happens her qualifications are highly relevant. There won't be much she doesn't know about the human lung.

Please don't instruct me on masks. I am quite clear that it's the other person that's being protected, and God, they need protecting around here - not least of all from the police. Read radgirl on droplets and 'aerosols'.

Michael Gove and Lord Sumption. The law being enforced by bizarre and by often dangerous means. The Guardian comes into this somewhere.

I haven't let this faze me. I'm too old to care about myself. What I'm seeing is the potential instability of the mathematics tilting this crisis into Italy spread world-wide. It will not be contained while these mistakes are being made.

In haste.

stevef

Mr Greens - this is Jet Blast! Most of the subjects here have got nothing to do with aviation - flying machines are what most of the other forums are for.



This thread was originally in R&N before being moved to JB

Senior Pilot

occasional

Just think about that advice. It is idiotic.
If you havent got a mask, cut up a cotton T-shirt.

And, although it could be very important to avoid touching your mask, the US CDC actually says "However, it is unknown what the potential contribution of contact transmission is for SARS-CoV-2".

WB627

My son is a Doctor on a Coronavirus ward, I am not convinced he has been given PPE that will actually protect him from infection. The son of a friend is a police officer, he has been given one face mask and told to only use it in an emergency.

As a country we have been woefully underprepared for this pandemic. Not enough PPE, probably not the right PPE and not enough test kits. 1 in 4 doctors are either off sick or in isolation, including my sons future in laws, some have died already, it does not bode well. We should have been stocking up on essential supplies from the first week in January at the latest.

Mr Optimistic

As the man said, Dogs Would You Live Forever.
You have to stand your ground.

Loose rivets

FROM QUORA

Mitchell Tsai, Virus researcher at Harvard Medical School in 1980s
Shared 16h ago“The Czech Republic is one of the few in Europe that has significantly slowed down the spread of the virus...The main difference is that everyone who has to leave their house has to wear a mask.”

“students are making hundreds and hundreds of masks”

pilotmike

Loose, I'd go get some sleep. Taking to your keyboard fretting at 3am won't help anything. It might not seem so apocalyptic when you wake up refreshed in the morning.

pr00ne

Paul852,

The population is NOT in a state of mass hysteria.

Only thing hysterical I can see here is the OP and yours.

Pontius Navigator

Fake news.

It was reported as such but in really it was the staff with whom he shook hands.

On the main thrust, there is ample camera evidence on TV that workers are not observing the 2 metre rule - lots of pictures from the Nightingale hospital. Police challenging these public etc.

VP959

2 metres isn't a magic figure, it's just guidance, and is based on a limited understanding of the possible distance that an aerosol ejected by someone violently coughing MAY cover, in an enclosed room, in still air. If no one coughs, then the safe distance in still air is almost certainly a great deal closer; the WHO state that 1m is adequate separation, for example.

In a large area, or outdoors, then the risk of exposure from an aerosol starts to reduce dramatically, largely because even very slight air movements will disperse it. The key principle is the same one used for making chemical spills safe, dilution. As the aerosol is diluted the chance of anyone ingesting a viral titre that is sufficient to cause disease drops pretty rapidly.

When outdoors, the risk of infection is going to be predominately contact, usually hands picking up the virus and transferring it to the face. As long as people aren't in physical contact outdoors, don't cough at each other and don't remain in very close proximity to others for long periods of time, the transmission risk is pretty small.

Indoors is very different, as the chance of an aerosol remaining airborne for a significant time in a closed room, with no fresh air to dilute it, is very much greater than when outdoors. 2m makes sense under those conditions; in fact some research shows that about 3m might be safer (but hard to achieve in a domestic scenario).

Krystal n chips

Perhaps you should contact a certain officer and tell him this whilst offering your own suggestions as to how this really outstanding effort could be achieved with people rigidly observing the 2m rule......

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...on-nightingale

parabellum

According to the medical profession the severity of the virus is governed by the viral load received and wearing a mask around you face that may have been infected is not considered a good idea. Many of the masks available are unable to filter the Corona virus anyway.