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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 6th Dec 2021, 15:47
  #17921 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
Age: 61
Posts: 984
Originally Posted by stevef View Post
A local multi-floor shopping centre this morning:
A noticeable amount of people not wearing masks, primarily under-twenties and those of Asian heritage. The under-twenties were largely girls in groups and the Asians apparently in family units. I didn't see any Anglo-Saxon over-60s not wearing a mask.
I was talking to one of the security 'entrance greeters' and she said they were powerless to insist on coverings or deny entrance and only allowed to advise that masks should be worn.
I think random police blitzes on malls with a mandatory £200 fine for non-maskers would be a warning to others.
Stevef
I noticed the same thing with the cohorts you said. The Asian one strikes me as odd, as that demographic has been hit hard apparently locally in the North. Similar issue when I had to visit A&E last night, with nobody but patient allowed in, but many Asians ignoring this, and not wearing or forgetting to wear masks, and being shown out. It is odd as in Germany where I spend a lot of time, mask wearing etiquette is very good, on the whole, never mind in hospitals.

Cheers
Mr Mac
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Old 6th Dec 2021, 16:29
  #17922 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: France
Posts: 490
International shipping and the world postal system is still in disarray
To my shock and surprise, having posted my Christmas cards to the UK on 1 December - expecting them to take at least a week to get there as in many previous years - in my inbox were at least 10 'thank you' messages from friends who'd received them on 3 December!!

So the postal system is definitely in disarray!!
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Old 6th Dec 2021, 17:22
  #17923 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 714
Originally Posted by Alsacienne View Post
To my shock and surprise, having posted my Christmas cards to the UK on 1 December - expecting them to take at least a week to get there as in many previous years - in my inbox were at least 10 'thank you' messages from friends who'd received them on 3 December!!

So the postal system is definitely in disarray!!
Mail to New Zealand on the other hand, post now for Christmas 2022!
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Old 6th Dec 2021, 18:36
  #17924 (permalink)  
See and avoid
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 595

Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame


https://www.wgbh.org/news/national-n...on-is-to-blame

The death rate from Covid is inversely correlated to the vaccination rate.

i.e., If you get vaccinated, you are far less likely to die from Covid.
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Old 6th Dec 2021, 21:43
  #17925 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 714
Originally Posted by visibility3miles View Post

Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame


https://www.wgbh.org/news/national-n...on-is-to-blame

The death rate from Covid is inversely correlated to the vaccination rate.

i.e., If you get vaccinated, you are far less likely to die from Covid.
Darwin at work or proof the whole thing is a Democrat plot to steal future elections by wiping out the opposition?

It will be interesting to see the Trumpians’ reaction, assuming they read such high falutin’ journals.
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Old 7th Dec 2021, 06:56
  #17926 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 714
From the DT:

”The booster rollout vaccinated fewer people over the weekend than it did before ministers promised to put it “on steroids”, figures showed yesterday.

The number of third jabs administered in England was lower than the figure the previous weekend, before the Prime Minister called for the rollout to be accelerated to build defences against the omicron variant.

Last night, there were accusations that the programme was “stuck in first gear” and fears were raised that unless the pace increased, further restrictions could be introduced over Christmas.

A blame game began in Whitehall over the speed of the rollout, with sources saying the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA), run by Dr Jenny Harries, was responsible for delays.

Meanwhile, Sajid Javid, the Health Secretary, said it was “highly likely that there is now community transmission [of omicron] across multiple regions of England”, with 336 cases confirmed across the whole of the UK.”

Oh joy.. Good to see the leadership skill of delegating blame downwards has not been lost. If they ever do get their backsides in gear, I bet credit will be taken at the highest level.
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Old 7th Dec 2021, 07:33
  #17927 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,477
Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
From the DT:

”The booster rollout vaccinated fewer people over the weekend than it did before ministers promised to put it “on steroids”, figures showed yesterday.

The number of third jabs administered in England was lower than the figure the previous weekend, before the Prime Minister called for the rollout to be accelerated to build defences against the omicron variant.

Last night, there were accusations that the programme was “stuck in first gear” and fears were raised that unless the pace increased, further restrictions could be introduced over Christmas.

A blame game began in Whitehall over the speed of the rollout, with sources saying the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA), run by Dr Jenny Harries, was responsible for delays.

Meanwhile, Sajid Javid, the Health Secretary, said it was “highly likely that there is now community transmission [of omicron] across multiple regions of England”, with 336 cases confirmed across the whole of the UK.”

Oh joy.. Good to see the leadership skill of delegating blame downwards has not been lost. If they ever do get their backsides in gear, I bet credit will be taken at the highest level.
This is just another illustration of our "sound bite" prime minister.

To get to the levels of booster vaccinations that is required (according to the prime ministerial pronouncement) centres, such as football stadia and other arena need to be requisitioned (their operators compensated for lost revenue obviously) and the team of volunteers for vaccinating and marshalling re-recruited. Relying on GP surgeries and small facilities in hotel meeting rooms (that is what has happened locally) operated by commercial pharmacies isn't going to do the job.
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Old 7th Dec 2021, 08:52
  #17928 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Livin de island life
Posts: 479
Anecdotally, I have heard of people (trained in vaccination) being told that volunteers were not needed. Maybe the doctors are trying to keep all the extra money for themselves? Or are we back to the usual, incompetent NHS management doing what they do best (worst)?
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Old 7th Dec 2021, 18:51
  #17929 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 83
Posts: 56
NHS daughter, already qualified to administer SERIOUS injections, jumped through all the hoops and attended the course in her own time at her own expense nearly a year ago, then offered to vaccinate in her own time. No response!
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 18:14
  #17930 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,477
UK - Plan B implemented

Well, well, surprise surprise. Honestly it would have been so much better had the mask wearing rules never been relaxed. It will now be so much more difficult to get people back into the habit. Also, finally common sense has been used and covid pass required in nightclubs and large venues, but why is it not coming into force for a week?? The scientists are frightening us with exponential growth in new cases of Omicron, with no clear idea on it's severity yet the UK is giving the variant another 7 days to run around through indoor venues unchecked.

Just how many stable doors the government has left to slam shut after the horse has long disappeared over the horizon only the Lord knows. Shambles!!
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 19:31
  #17931 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 37
Posts: 629
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Well, well, surprise surprise. Honestly it would have been so much better had the mask wearing rules never been relaxed. It will now be so much more difficult to get people back into the habit. Also, finally common sense has been used and covid pass required in nightclubs and large venues, but why is it not coming into force for a week?? The scientists are frightening us with exponential growth in new cases of Omicron, with no clear idea on it's severity yet the UK is giving the variant another 7 days to run around through indoor venues unchecked.

Just how many stable doors the government has left to slam shut after the horse has long disappeared over the horizon only the Lord knows. Shambles!!
Tories and thier donors need time to implement measures to make money off the scheme before rolling it it out properly.
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 20:20
  #17932 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Station 42
Age: 67
Posts: 966
+1 What ATNotts said in #17927.
Re vaccination, someone on this evening's BBC conference said something like: 'What can we do to protect those who won't have the jabs!' What? Nothing, it's their decision and they can take the consequences: they shouldn't get access to public/social events without a Covid passport. Simple. They're already filling hospital beds that could be used for people that properly deserve them. If they think their 'human rights' are being infringed, they should think about the effects their 'freedom' could have on others. This is too big a national problem to consider their feelings. Conform or be excluded. It's not a Draconian measure, considering the big picture.
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 21:25
  #17933 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
Age: 61
Posts: 984
Steven / ATNotts
Would agree needs of many etc. As for human rights I think you abdicate those when you are in this situation. Conform or you are outside the box for the duration. Why we are waiting 7 days I do not know, though maybe for getting security at nightclubs up to speed as they will be policing it.

Cheers
Mr Mac
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 08:13
  #17934 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 714
First line from first article in DT today

“BORIS JOHNSON last night told millions of people to work from home next week, but said that they should still attend office Christmas parties.”

It doesn’t make sense, even when he says it!

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Old 9th Dec 2021, 08:45
  #17935 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,477
Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
First line from first article in DT today

“BORIS JOHNSON last night told millions of people to work from home next week, but said that they should still attend office Christmas parties.”

It doesn’t make sense, even when he says it!
Indeed it doesn't. Thankfully the responsible parts of society, and that thankfully is probably a majority, are already well ahead of the government insofar as I have come across numerous incidents where office Christmas parties have been cancelled, and in schools many have been enforcing mask wearing in corridors, and some insisting senior school pupils wear them in class too.

What absolutely beggars belief is that pubs and restaurants appear exempt from mask wearing whilst moving around; clear BoJo's mate Tim Martin has nobbled him. The nightclub sector is probably wishing he owned a chain of them too. I suppose, on the plus side, for Johnson, it allow parties in Downing Street this Christmas without contravening the rules!

As per usual this is another half baked, half thought out set of "guidance, advice and law" and I'm already unclear as to which is what.

Looking at Austria, their new case rates have been tumbling since they put in place their "proper" lockdown and as a result, ahead of Christmas they are able to relax measures to "2G" (recovered or vaccinated) giving the majority of the population more freedoms ahead of Christmas - the unvaccinated are still getting their just deserts. I can see the UK, on the other hand being forced to tighten rules further just ahead of Christmas, or if politically they decide to procrastinate, be forced into harsher measures in January. The UK is already the leader in Omicron infections in Europe; I wonder why that is? lack of mask wearing, lack of enforcement and lack of testing arrivals before they set foot landside arriving from RSA in a timely manner. How long before the UK travel industry is hit further by restrictions on the movement of UK citizens travelling abroad? After Christmas if we're lucky, possibly before if the worst predictions of the likes of Whitty come to pass.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 10:29
  #17936 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Under a gooseberry bush
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
First line from first article in DT today

“BORIS JOHNSON last night told millions of people to work from home next week, but said that they should still attend office Christmas parties.”

It doesn’t make sense, even when he says it!



This has been my point all the way through.

You can’t have a ‘partial’ lockdown. Do the authorities think the virus is a sentient being that consciously avoids certain situations?

We have so many exceptions to the rules, they are absolutely pointless. You had to wear a mask standing up in a restaurant, but not whilst sitting down. You have to wear a mask - unless wearing one causes you distress (?!) Mask wearing makes some people feel very wound up. Could they say that causes them ‘distress’? You have to wear one in a supermarket for 15 minutes but can spend a whole evening mixing with others without one. The rich, famous, sports people and politicians have continued to travel internationally and bypass the restrictions, regardless of the pandemic. My neighbour flies biz jets and he was working fully throughout all the lockdowns. You could have workmen in your house - but not friends. You could even have a cleaner for a few hours, even if you’re able bodied.

Something we need to be really thinking about. Our leaders have access to sensitive and privileged information about Covid. They will know just how truly dangerous it is, and yet it doesn’t seem to stop them disregarding the recommendations. They meet their lovers, visit their second homes, take their families to stay with older relatives, and now we hear they were partying during lockdown (It doesn’t matter whether the PM himself was directly involved, they were his staff) The very fact that they are carrying on like this tells me that this whole thing has been totally overhyped and we’re being completely played.

Incidentally, more friends and colleagues of mine have now had covid than not, and yet only one fatality, and he was severely overweight, diabetic and HNB. He would have been high risk with any respiratory virus. The others have all had varying degrees of infection from a mild head cold to bed ridden for a week, but they’ve all recovered with no long lasting effects. Assuming this similar scenario is being repeated all over the country, time to get on with it.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 11:23
  #17937 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 714
Today. the New Scientist published an interview with Maria Van Kerkhove, the WHO technical lead on Covid-19, which covered what we know, and don't know, about Omicron.
https://www.newscientist.com/article...n=NSDAY_091221

Assuming it is paywalled I have pulled out 2 points.

A sage point to the Omicron only causes mild symptoms school from the article

"What do we know about the severity of disease caused by omicron?

We are getting a clearer picture here. Many patients have presented with mild disease and if you compare it to other waves, omicron seems to be more mild. We will get more data on that soon. But it doesn’t mean it’s only mild – we have seen the full spectrum of severity with the variant, and people will die from it. Saying “it’s only mild” is very dangerous. If it is more transmissible than delta, there will be more cases, more hospitalisations and more deaths."

And for the party animals:

"If someone is planning to meet up with family over the holidays, what advice would you give? Are you having a holiday party?

We are asking people to be really careful and what they should do depends on where that family is meeting, whether they are vaccinated, if they use testing, if they are minimising contacts, if they are doing things outdoors rather than indoors. You need to make sure there is good ventilation where you are meeting. Personally, I would give anything to spend the holidays with my family. We are having tough discussions right now, just as many families are. People should say: “OK, if we’re going to do this, let’s work out how can we do this as safely as possible.” We have choices and our choices have consequences: don’t give the virus the opportunity to thrive."
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 11:51
  #17938 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 1
So why didn't they ask Maria Van Kerkhove a more relevant question like is the Omicron variant a part of the natural evolutionary demise of the Covid-19 virus? Instead they asked her what will they do if they run out of letters from the Greek alphabet - honestly, who gives a sh!t.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 12:16
  #17939 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
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Originally Posted by cattletruck View Post
So why didn't they ask Maria Van Kerkhove a more relevant question like is the Omicron variant a part of the natural evolutionary demise of the Covid-19 virus? Instead they asked her what will they do if they run out of letters from the Greek alphabet - honestly, who gives a sh!t.
I expect the answer to that is we do not know yet. She was asked about 2022 which I think is as far as we can speculate at present. The idea of a natural evolutionary demise is conjecture and would not preclude a nastier variant en route (see flu). The timescale for such a demise is also an unknown, it could be many years and there are alternative pharmaceutical strategies which would make waiting for any evolutionary demise irrelevant.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 13:03
  #17940 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 180
Originally Posted by cattletruck View Post
So why didn't they ask Maria Van Kerkhove a more relevant question like is the Omicron variant a part of the natural evolutionary demise of the Covid-19 virus? Instead they asked her what will they do if they run out of letters from the Greek alphabet - honestly, who gives a sh!t.
I don't think "the natural evolutionary demise" of any virus is a given. Although some -- especially those that have just emerged -- are naturally evolving into the best niche available. Which thankfully is often less lethal.

Covid seems to be a disease of two halves: an initial infection sometimes followed by "complications" associated with hyper-inflammatory syndrome.



A lot of these complications seem to occur when the viral load has fallen, and to have little or nothing to do with the presence of the sars2 virus. For example millions of lives have been saved by use of steroids -- which suppress the immune system. Not a smart thing to do if the problem at that time was a virus infection.



So my guess is that sars2 evolution may change the nature of mild/moderate covid (caused by the virus) but not the "complications". Simply because the virus is largely a bystander at that point in time.

So my guess is than any evolutionary pressure on sars2 applies to mild/moderate covid not the "complications". For these the virus is largely a bystander (at that point in time).

Virus mutations may change the extent to which it triggers complications, but this is likely to be at random as it doesn't significantly impact the success of the virus at propagating itself.


Last edited by Peter H; 9th Dec 2021 at 17:27. Reason: clarity
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