Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Coronavirus: The Thread

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 29th Jul 2021, 18:27
  #16741 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Station 42
Age: 67
Posts: 961
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Listening to the (dreadful) Jeremy Vine on BBC R2, then watching the Jonathan van Tam Q&A on BBC News Channel that was aimed at young people (was produced with BBC Radio 1 Newsbeat) I am beginning to despair of the (minority) group of our young people who haven't got vaccinated, or simply refuse to get vaccinated.

Of course it is true that TV and radio producers choose participants based upon the message they want to get across, but I get the distinct impression that many are either, stupid, gullible or plain selfish - sometimes all three - in their attitude towards vaccination and the vaccines themselves.

The time really has come to go down the route that the UK government is sliding towards; vaccine passports to enter entertainment venues and possibly requirement for full vaccination to gain access to university halls of residence. Many of our 18 - 30s appear oblivious to risk, to themselves and especially to people around them, and brainwashed by nonsense they pick up through social media that the only way to get them to act responsibly may be to restrict their freedoms until they do. Shame, because it never ought to have to come to that.
Or get some sports personalities, shallow Youtube 'influencers' or vacuous reality TV stars to wave the vaccination banner. That might do the trick.
stevef is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2021, 18:29
  #16742 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bedford, UK
Age: 68
Posts: 1,297
Best to remember that about half the population are below average intelligence so don't get your hopes up.
Mr Optimistic is online now  
Old 29th Jul 2021, 18:32
  #16743 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Best to remember that about half the population are below average intelligence so don't get your hopes up.
Where covid-19 and vaccination is concerned the majority of the below average appear to be under 30!!!
ATNotts is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2021, 19:02
  #16744 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tapping the Decca, wondering why it's not working.
Age: 73
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Very early on the word was keep the app but switch off contact tracking which apparently is very easy to do, at least according to my London based daughter. If, however, you can get sick pay then maybe the incentive is reduced.
Just turn off bluetooth, or install on an old burner phone and don't power it up.

I have a bluetooth range estimating app on my "proper" phone and find that it picks up much stuff, but very few close-by phones broadcasting they're running the NHSDigital app.

'a
aerobelly is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 06:21
  #16745 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,645
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/v...-app-d2plkcjk9

Vaccine passport for British venues added to NHS app

The NHS app has been quietly amended to include a “domestic” section in the Covid passport.

Along with a travel vaccine passport, the app previously included a function allowing people to show proof of vaccination or a negative test for the government’s events research programme. Now this has ended, the app has been tweaked to include a wider pass for “places that have chosen to use the service”.

Alistair Carmichael, the Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, demanded the recall of parliament, saying: “The government has just committed to vaccine passports by stealth. This deceitful move is deeply shameful. We now have a new ID card snuck onto our phones without even as much as a whisper from the government.”

Officials denied any secrecy, saying that the prime minister had been publicly encouraging businesses such as nightclubs to require proof of a jab.….
ORAC is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 07:41
  #16746 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,645
It would seem like Greece is dithering - cases are soaring, but hospitalisations and deaths aren’t rising fast - and they need the tourists, just not the noisy partying kind….

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ep-up-controls

Greece sends police to Covid hotspot islands to step up controls

Greeceas begun deploying police units to holiday island hotspots as the country’s tourism season moves into high gear amid a worrying spread of coronavirus variants.

Authorities moved to beef up police presence on party isles such as Mykonos and Ios as concerns mounted over local entrepreneurs failing to comply with health measures aimed at curbing the pandemic.

“The Delta variant has meant that every country is dealing with the fourth wave now and not as expected in November,” the Greek tourism minister Haris Theoharis told the Guardian. “While hotels and family-type venues are implementing protocols diligently, there’s more congestion than we would like to see in bars, especially among the younger crowd ... so we are trying to ensure some balance is kept.”

Some 186 law enforcers have been sent to Mykonos alone, up from the 56 stationed there this time last year.

On Thursday, an additional 30 policemen, backed up by security officials and undercover agents, were dispatched to Ios, the 11-mile-long Cycladic isle popular with younger tourists drawn to its bars, discos and rock clubs.

The Greek deputy civil protection minister, Nikos Hardalias, said Mykonos and Ios were “one step” away from authorities imposing further restrictions, and that the situation on the islands of Zakynthos, Tinos, Lefkada, Santorini, Paros and Rhodes was also worrying.

Greece’s south Aegean islands were marked dark red on the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control’s Covid map on Thursday, meaning all but essential travel to and from the region is discouraged. The cluster of 13 islands includes Mykonos, Santorini and Rhodes.

Infection rates have shot up among people aged between 20 and 30 – with most testing asymptomatic….

Earlier this month, authorities were forced to impose a week-long curfew and music ban on Mykonos after contagion rates skyrocketed on the “anything goes” island. On Wednesday, the citizens’ protection minister Michalis Chrisochidois warned it was only a matter of time before a similar lockdown was enforced on Ios.

“There is now a visible danger that the island will be shut down,” he said, having flown into Ios earlier in the day. “Fines have already been imposed on enterprises which don’t uphold the law and … police who are very active and combative are being dispatched to apply the law and ensure enforcement of measures.”….

This week Greek health officials announced five million people had been vaccinated, still well short of herd immunity being achieved, according to epidemiologists, but a milestone nonetheless.

“We’re seeing a fourth wave but no wave at all in terms of hospitalisations and stress on the health system,” said Theoharis. “There is a shift in the pattern of the disease and that requires a shift in mindset as to how we respond to it.”….

ORAC is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 07:43
  #16747 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/v...-app-d2plkcjk9

Vaccine passport for British venues added to NHS app

The NHS app has been quietly amended to include a “domestic” section in the Covid passport.
In a word........good!!
ATNotts is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 07:52
  #16748 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Age: 51
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/v...-app-d2plkcjk9

Vaccine passport for British venues added to NHS app

The NHS app has been quietly amended to include a “domestic” section in the Covid passport.

Along with a travel vaccine passport, the app previously included a function allowing people to show proof of vaccination or a negative test for the government’s events research programme. Now this has ended, the app has been tweaked to include a wider pass for “places that have chosen to use the service”.

Alistair Carmichael, the Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, demanded the recall of parliament, saying: “The government has just committed to vaccine passports by stealth. This deceitful move is deeply shameful. We now have a new ID card snuck onto our phones without even as much as a whisper from the government.”

Officials denied any secrecy, saying that the prime minister had been publicly encouraging businesses such as nightclubs to require proof of a jab.….



That has been there for at least a couple of months.



highflyer40 is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 08:53
  #16749 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,645
Diplomatic row with the French over being on the Amber+ list is being compounded by the fact that the UK has both Reunion and Spain on the Amber list with no restrictions when they have far higher rates….

Politico London Playbook

French farce

The other pressing issue facing No. 10 this weekend is a worsening diplomatic row with France — not to mention summer holiday frustration for Brits — over the government’s decision to keep the country on the so-called amber plus list, requiring arrivals from France to isolate when they enter the U.K.

Steve Swinford and Adam Sage splash the Times with a critique of Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab’s intriguing line on broadcast yesterday that it was the high cases of the Beta variant on the island of Reunion that played a part in the decision.

Why this seems strange

……Former British Ambassador to France Peter Ricketts pointed out the flaw in the logic: mainland France might be on the amber plus list, but Reunion is still on the amber list, meaning people arriving in Britain from the island containing the Beta variant the government is so worried about, er, don’t have to isolate. Which makes precisely zero sense.


Another problem

Raab suggested that the ease of travel between Reunion and France was the issue, implying the Beta variant could easily get into mainland France. Though as Francois Heisbourg of the International Institute for Strategic Studies notes, Reunion is not part of the Schengen area and there are full border and health checks in place between the island and France.


Reverse ferret

In light of all this, a senior government source tells the Times that Raab was wrong and that actually Reunion was not the problem at all. “Ministers took this decision based on data on the prevalence of the Beta variant in mainland France. This data did not include La Reunion,” the source said.

Yet the number of Beta cases in France has fallen recently and accounts for just 0.6 percent of infections*. Hmm.

One more week

No. 10 is facing a backlash not only from the French government, which is calling the decision “discriminatory,” but also from the U.K. tourism industry, which argues it’s “madness.”

Funnily enough, the restrictions on France are now likely to be lifted next Thursday, the Times reports.

(* The rate in France is less than half that in Spain)

https://www.ft.com/content/4d307a35-...1-adcca7e7e180
ORAC is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 09:35
  #16750 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,322

Reverse ferret

In light of all this, a senior government source tells the Times that Raab was wrong and that actually Reunion was not the problem at all. “Ministers took this decision based on data on the prevalence of the Beta variant in mainland France. This data did not include La Reunion,” the source said.

Yet the number of Beta cases in France has fallen recently and accounts for just 0.6 percent of infections*.

None of this (including the prevalence of beta on mainland France) is exactly new news or new information is it? I’m pretty sure it’s been mentioned here before………


The Amber plus listing always smacked of being either a mistake or being politically rather then medically motivated.
wiggy is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 09:40
  #16751 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 222
Nature is getting rid of certain percentage of people who could have been vaccinated. Natural selection, Darwin, you know.

Some of these people have an incompetent government, some have their own ideas about science, some don't trust anything coming from a government, some believe in all kinds of theories, and some are just plain stupid.
Gargleblaster is online now  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 10:00
  #16752 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 689
Originally Posted by Gargleblaster View Post
Nature is getting rid of certain percentage of people who could have been vaccinated. Natural selection, Darwin, you know.

Some of these people have an incompetent government, some have their own ideas about science, some don't trust anything coming from a government, some believe in all kinds of theories, and some are just plain stupid.
You could add plain arrogant and bone idle to that list.

An idle thought. Following the tradition of the captain being the last to leave the ship and the leadership principle that you should care for the men and horses before youself, should not the head of government and his or her immediate coterie not be the last to be vaccinated in any country? It might make them redouble their efforts to keep their fellow countrymen safe.
Ninthace is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 10:07
  #16753 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 132
Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Do you want untested and un-vaccinated strangers deposited in your neighborhood or would you rather those dropping them off see to their testing and vaccinations first?

If you can respond to that question and tell us that you have no problem if it was your neighborhood, village, or town that was happening in.....then I would question your thinking on the matter.
No, I don't. My point is that legal or illegal immigration on the US southern borders is not driving the increase of COVID infections around the world and is only being used as a political point. The only reasonable way to stop the pandemic is to make sure as many people as possible get vaccinated. If you consider my thinking on this matter is questionable, please explain why.
Hokulea is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 12:46
  #16754 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,645
It’s the vaccines wot dunnit- along with the age of most of those catching it of course…

https://www.ft.com/content/e5c4a1f8-...8-142c43a5ab9d

Coronavirus infections rising everywhere in UK except Scotland, says ONS

Coronavirus case numbers have fallen in Scotland but have continued to rise in other parts of the UK, according to the Office for National Statistics.

The ONS infection survey released on Friday covers the week to July 24, so does not include the recent dip in infection numbers in England revealed by the daily testing statistics.

According to the ONS, 49,500 individuals in Scotland tested positive for Covid-19 in the week to July 24, down from 65,100 the previous week. However, the survey showed infections continuing to rise in England, Northern Ireland and Wales…..

The ONS said there were signs that the rate of increase was slowing.

“These new official statistics do not reflect the recent dip in the daily testing figures in England, so it’s important to understand the differences between the two sources,” said Duncan Cook, deputy director for the Covid-19 Infection Survey.

“It’s notable that around 40 per cent of positive tests in the ONS study are from people who show no symptoms of infection. This group is therefore less likely to show up in the daily figures,” he added.
ORAC is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 12:50
  #16755 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,645
Also from the FT….

Australia will ease restrictions once 70% of adults are fully vaccinated, says PM

Australia will start easing coronavirus-induced restrictions only once 70 per cent of adults were vaccinated against Covid-19, its prime minister has said.

The country will enter a further phase of reopening once an 80 per cent threshold is met, Scott Morrison said on Friday in a news briefing, as he urged the country to “work together” to meet vaccination targets. He gave no timeframe for the country to hit that level.

“This plan is subject to the rules Covid-19 writes itself,” he said. “New variants can emerge. If this were to occur we would look at this very carefully.”

His comments on Friday come about a week after he apologised for his government’s slow Covid-19 vaccine rollout. About 14 per cent of adult Australians are fully vaccinated and a worsening outbreak has forced authorities to place 14m people in lockdown.

The prime minister stressed that if the country achieved its targets, restrictions on vaccinated residents would be eased, and there would be a gradual reopening of inbound and outbound travel with safe countries. He did not rule out the return of localised lockdowns.

“If you get vaccinated there will be special rules that apply to you. Why? Because if you’re vaccinated you present less of a public health risk,” he said.
ORAC is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 13:49
  #16756 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 689
If you do not want to rely on the FT report and analysis (largely a c&p of the Executive Summary) - the latest ONS data for C-19 infections are at
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases

The equivalent data from the official UK government website for data and insights on coronavirus (COVID-19) are at
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases

Comparing the two sites the trends are reassuringly similar up to a point. However, while the ONS site shows a slowing in the rate of increase in England in the days leading up to 24 July, cases have yet to peak while the UK govt website shows a definite peak in England on or around 16 July.

The equivalent data for Scotland show a peak in the ONS data around 17 July, whereas the equivalent peak in the UK website data is on or around 1 July.

Clearly there is a lag and variations between the two methods. The ONS figures are a weekly estimate based on surveys in the population, whereas the UK website are figures based on those who present for testing, which can be the subject of competing pressures. The former is probably a better representation of the overall state of play.as it is less subject to external pressures and samples the whole population rather than a self selecting group.

Anyhoo, I leave folk to poke around in the figures and decide for themselves what might be going on. IMHO it looks like another 2 weeks might give us a clearer picture, one way or t'other.
Ninthace is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 23:30
  #16757 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downeast
Age: 73
Posts: 17,283
Hokulea,

My point is that legal or illegal immigration on the US southern borders is not driving the increase of COVID infections around the world and is only being used as a political point. The only reasonable way to stop the pandemic is to make sure as many people as possible get vaccinated. If you consider my thinking on this matter is questionable, please explain why.
Yes....your thinking is wrong.

Your comment in quotes proves it by your own construct.....how you arrived at the idea that an influx of untested and un-vaccinated population of tens of thousands arriving in the United States from the Southern Border could possibly drive the infection rate around the world.....is simply preposterous.

That influx shall have an affect on the infection rate and related stattstics in those areas that they are entering and subsequently being relocated from......that is plain old commonsense.

It is exactly the same principle that sees Travel bans in place in many Countries....stopping the distribution of the infection by limiting or stopping travel that would bring infected persons into contact with others.....you may recall actions taken by the Federal Government at the beginning of the Covid Outbreak....and those of the Chinese government where attempted to isolate Wuhan Province from other areas of China.

The EU and UK also have used travel bans and the requirement for Covid Testing and Quarantine of travelers.

What is hard for you to grasp about this?

Simple example for you....I had a Doctor's visit today....and despite being fully vaccinated back in March....I had to wear a Mask today, had my Temperature checked to detect any kind of fever, had to answer a dozen questions about Covid exposure.

Had I had a fever, had I a cough, if I was sneezing, or had any of the other symptoms of Covid, or had any known contact with someone that had Covid or tested positive for Covid....I would not have been seen without very thorough precautions being taken.

When I go for my Out Patient Surgery....I shall have to take a Covid Test the day before that procedure and again go through all the tests and questions.

Heaven forbid I were to try to fly on an Airline flight from Charlotte to London.....I am sure the protocols were be far in excess of those the Federal Government is employing to expedite the handling of the vast numbers of folks arriving in its custody at the Southern Border.

Now why would that be you wonder?

If I must undergo such scrutiny for something as simple as a quick chat with a Surgeon....or for taking an airline flight.....why should those coming north across the border not have to undergo the same protocols before being dumped into small towns and cities around the Country.
SASless is online now  
Old 31st Jul 2021, 07:42
  #16758 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 132
My point is vaccinations are the way out of this worldwide pandemic, not tighter controls at the US southern border - and please note - I am not saying tighter controls at that border should not exist; I have not stated that opinion nor do I agree with it. Again, if you consider my thinking is questionable, please explain why. I apologize if this is too complicated for you to understand.

Last edited by Hokulea; 31st Jul 2021 at 09:33.
Hokulea is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2021, 10:45
  #16759 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: not scotland
Posts: 264
Originally Posted by Hokulea View Post
My point is vaccinations are the way out of this worldwide pandemic, not tighter controls at the US southern border - and please note - I am not saying tighter controls at that border should not exist; I have not stated that opinion nor do I agree with it. Again, if you consider my thinking is questionable, please explain why. I apologize if this is too complicated for you to understand.
If the current COVID problem, as it’s been suggested, is largely due to unchecked immigration and the movement of those people around the country (it’s not), there is an easy solution.

LFT them daily during the immigration process and deal with the results according to guidelines. Masks inside and vaccinations on day one.

The irony is that those wishing for a better life would probably willingly adhere to this while there are those citizens who refuse to get vaccinations and/or wear masks who would not.

Apologies for adding to a particular discussion best left to the hamster wheel threads.
Toadstool is online now  
Old 31st Jul 2021, 11:45
  #16760 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 132
Thanks, Toadstool. I did suggest that SASless might be better posting in the US politics thread but there you go. And to SASless - your post started off badly enough and then went into a rant about stuff I'm pretty certain many of us have had to deal with in the last year or so. On the other hand, your adventure into logical fallacies and random capitalization was somewhat amusing.
Hokulea is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.