svhar

It's impossible to fathom all these rules. Like here in Spain where, the rules change day from day, region from region. I have given up.

DaveReidUK

It's a still-developing pandemic. We shouldn't really be surprised if regulations frequently change to try to keep up with it.

wiggy

Seconded..whilst here in France we’re starting to see an upturn in case numbers it’s mainly the delta variant that’s starting to ramp things up and the percentage of overall cases that are the beta variant has been dropping rapidly over the last few days/weeks.

Given that it is kind of hard to work out why the UK gov ever planned to drop the requirement for inbound quarantine for returning Brits from France in the first place…..(actually the cynic would say it’s not hard to work out at all ).

One things for sure, the travel industry and peoples’ lives are continually being screwed by this “off again, ooops, on again” switching of restrictions.

Alsacienne

I am trying to help an exceptionally talented young pianist to attend a Masterclass in Manchester in mid-August. He has limited financial resources, and has already paid for his course, his testing fees, his accommodation and his plane ticket. He cannot afford to quarantine in a hotel if the UK turns 'red', and will not be able to claim back all the money he has paid out so far. It's very stressful for him, and he doesn't know when the situation will be clarified beyond doubt and 'exceptions', even though he regularly checks with the UK Gov website. How long will this go on? As Wiggy rightly points out 'One things for sure, the travel industry and peoples’ lives are continually being screwed by this “off again, ooops, on again” switching of restrictions.' not just for UK citizens but for citizens of other Amber list countries intending to visit the UK.

highflyer40

Seriously? A pianist? FFS stay in your own country until things settle down.

Everyoone wants everything back to normal ASAP. Just accept this may (hopefully will not) take 4-5 years to sort itself out.

Yes people will be badly affected. But there is a precedent. WW1, WW2….etc. You do what you have to protect society.

Dannyboy39

Christ. What an attitude this is - I assume you’re “alright Jack” with a nice gold plated pension. Are you forgetting which forum you are on?

AN2 Driver

Maybe realism and a certain acknowledgement that this situation will be with us for the foreseeable future?

Nobody likes it .Nobody wants it to continue, we all would love to get back to the life we had before. Only it ain't gonna happen.

We are in year 2 of the pandemic and while we have reached some milestone with the possibility of vaccination, we are nowhere near the end. I'd even think 4-5 years is optimistic. 5-10 years will be more likely, if it will ever allow us to go back to normal.

In the current situation, travel arrangements are high risk as the rules are written by pencil and change every day. Friends of mine were booted off a Malta flight last week, when Malta got their knickers in a twist over some AZ charges, without warning, compensation or even compassion. It's just like this, deal with it. You can be double vaccined, if someone deems your vaccine invalid, you are off the plane. If a mutation turns out to be resistent against a vaccine, you may find that other countries don't want you if you have it.

Personally, I have reduced my travel to absolutely essential and then buy the tickets a day or two before, as it is never clear what develops. Also, you have to count on quarantine where ever you go or on return, if something changes or paperwork is insufficient. There is no way to avoid that right now.

Therefore all the guy can do is sweat it and hope for the best, possibly try to get here early so he can finish a quarantine or testing regime before the course starts. Maybe the course organizers or others can help with the financial side of things or offer a place for quarantine. Other than that he has no choice. That it was a very naive decision to book or prepay something like this involving travel at the moment unfortunately is abundantly clear.

ORAC

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...-nhs-5085nwf5v

Millions offered flu vaccine to ease winter strain on NHS

The largest flu vaccination programme of its kind will launch this autumn as NHS chiefs seek to stave off a feared surge of infections. School children up to year 11 will be urged to have the flu vaccine and half the country will be eligible….

The 35 million offered the jab will include everyone over 50 and children aged two to 16, as well as clinically vulnerable people and pregnant women.

Last year a record 19 million seasonal flu jabs were administered, including to year 7 pupils for the first time, but the effect of lockdowns meant that the flu season was largely averted.

A government-commissioned report by the Academy of Medical Sciences raised the alarm this week that, following its suppression, the flu could rebound to potentially twice the normal levels, with as many as 40,000 deaths…..

Children will receive the vaccine as a nasal spray. For older people, the flu vaccines are expected to be delivered alongside a planned Covid-19 booster programme, designed to keep up immunity levels going into colder months.….

ORAC

Israel

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i...ules-b9sq0q805

Israel on brink of lockdown

Israel faces the prospect of another lockdown only a month after social distancing and mask rules were dropped, amid a fourth wave of Covid-19.

Government sources warned that if Israelis failed to voluntarily observe social distancing the country may have to go into lockdown during the Jewish festival of Rosh Hashana, in eight weeks’ time. Naftali Bennett, the prime minister, tried to sound more upbeat: “We can beat coronavirus in five weeks — it’s just up to us.” ….

In recent months, Israel has reopened businesses, schools and event venues, lifting nearly all restrictions after it inoculated some 85 per cent of its adults, as well as reducing the 14-day quarantine period for travellers.

However, despite the country’s advanced vaccination campaign Bennett has called on Israelis to wear masks in closed public places once more and to avoid travel.

“The vaccine is not sufficient to fight against the Delta variant . . . we need the co-operation of citizens to defeat the coronavirus without having to impose a new lockdown,” he said, calling on children aged 12 to 16 to get vaccinated.

The Delta variant continues to spread in Israel: 855 new cases were reported on Thursday, the highest number since March 22. Although Israel’s 63 per cent total vaccination rate has until now prevented most infections turning into serious illness, the number of hospital cases has begun to go up, reaching a hundred yesterday….

There is no threat of hospitals being overwhelmed with serious cases. But the fact that the infections are continuing to rise and the new variant, against which the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is less effective, has forced the government to act.

Two weeks after the requirement to wear a mask in closed public spaces was dropped, it was hastily reimposed and with it the 500 shekel (£110) fine for non-compliance.

Despite government guidance against foreign travel, tens of thousands of Israelis have begun flying abroad for their summer holidays, many returning after becoming infected with the Delta variant…..

The “green pass”, which allowed only those who could demonstrate their vaccination status on an app to enter restaurants and music and sports venues, was abandoned last month. It is now being revived under a new name, the “happy pass”, for weddings and other big indoor events….

Amid fears that Israelis and visitors coming from abroad could import new cases, from yesterday all travellers were required to self-isolate for 24 hours upon arrival, regardless of their vaccination status, or until they receive a negative test result.

Those arriving from countries deemed to have high infection rates — which from next Friday will include Britain and Spain — will be required to quarantine for a full seven days and supply a negative test result.

wiggy

Much easier than said than done, particularly in some niche jobs/ lines of employment…not sure about musicians but earlier this year one of our offspring had the choice of either move across national borders or lose out on what could have been a once in a lifetime career opportunity.

ORAC

Australia

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...covid-outbreak

Sydney lockdown shock as Premier admits NSW has failed to ‘quash’ Covid outbreak

Lockdown restrictions in Greater Sydney will be drastically tightened after the New South Wales premier, Gladys Berejiklian, conceded measures introduced three weeks ago were failing to stop an outbreak of more than 1,000 cases.….

Ninthace

So if lockdowns don't work, as has been suggested on this forum on several occasions, is Gladys right to try to strengthen the current lockdown? Does she have an alternative, what would the impact of that alternative be, and would the good folks of NSW and the surrounding states be up for it?

ORAC

I am not aware anyone claimed lockdowns don’t work - just that, in the case of nations with widespread cases, a short sharp lockdowns don’t work, they just delay the peak of a wave.

Long lockdowns almost work, but at great cost to the economy and society.

It may be that a short harder lockdown will work in NSW. It may be that a longer lockdown will now be required. Other states will be watching anxiously.

Time will tell if the Delta variant can be contained. Something which will also be watched with interest from elsewhere.

Ninthace

I wasn't accusing anyone in particular. Trawl through from post #1. I'm sure they're there, perhaps associated with a" let it rip and get it over with" or "we are all sheep" theme or a "its no worse than flu" claim. Trouble is the search engine only works on key words and lockdown as a term gives too many hits but we have both read posts on this theme.
Some examples, I stopped looking very rapidly.
Post#16381
Post#16360
Post #10447

cattletruck

There was a wonderful thread on the Antipodes forum about the experience of getting the vaccination. Unfortunately it's been hijacked by the usual screaming heads and the valuable feedback in there has been lost.

I wonder how the major health insurers will see a vaccinated population in the very near future. Forget "herd immunity" for a second, at some stage the population of a nation will reach a point where the majority are vaccinated and enough supply will always be available for the remainder. When this occurs, health insurance companies will probably change their policies to exclude the unvaccinated from hospital cover unless an extra premium is paid - this is the commercial world at it's best. This then gets industry off the hook and the nation can start opening up again. Choosing to have the vaccine or not (or delay it) will always be left to the individual, much like speeding, you wear your own risk and your options are always open.

BTW, the NSW lockdown wasn't what you call a real lockdown, it was more like window dressing, and it was inevitable that they have been caught out.

treadigraph

Arranged a restaurant dinner for six of us ex-colleagues for next Friday - two are now self isolating/testing as their sons have tested positive after 21st birthday booze ups with their mates last weekend... will be cancelling the meal later, hopefully we can reschedule for later in the year - one is getting married in September and we were all due to attend that...

BWSBoy6

One of those was my post - which is fine, we can agree to disagree, but we are losing sight of the bigger picture. Of course the figures in isolation look dreadful. And every single death is a tragedy for a family and loved ones, I’m not being in the least bit blasé about that, but we have a population of nearly 67 million. A very sad fact is the majority - not all, I fully acknowledge - are people with comorbidities. They were all at risk from ‘something’ Obesity is a major factor in Covid complications. Obesity is also a major factor in sudden death from heart disease, strokes, diabetes. Sadly, if one thing doesn’t get you, another one will. However, obesity is one factor we can all have control over. Ageing is not. We can’t live forever, very few people die of old age. I’ve posted this several times; of course we’d all like to just slip away by the fireside, a wee dram on the table, nod off and not wake up. The vast majority of us will die of something. If every older persons death was investigated, I’m pretty convinced statistics for something like flu would look a lot more concerning. Therefore, and very sadly, Covid has taken many in this group that may well have had possibly another year of life but who knows. I’m saying this from a position of having lost both my mother and MIL at the height last year.

Linda Bauld, Chair of Health at Edinburgh University is a regular guest on BBC and is generally not in favour of easing restrictions. However, this morning she admitted that many of those in hospital now are younger unvaccinated people who are successfully treated and discharged in a matter of days. When we look at the scary hospital admission figures, worth bearing in mind.

Ninthace

Is that true? If you choose to speed, are you really wearing your own risk? The acknowledgement of there being a risk implies you know things might go wrong. So what about the other person who may take part in your accident and those who have to take part in sweeping you up. Blue light runs are not without risk. nor is digging you out. Then there are those that have to carry you, mend you. and those that have to pay for picking you up and mending you?
Then there is your family who get the knock on the door.

Similar principles apply for those who choose not to vaccinate but it is worse. You can choose the circumstances under which you speed to minimise the risk, but not so with non vaccination where you have no control of what happens next. You run the risk of getting sick but what about those that you may infect, even the vaccinated are not totally protected. Those that lose income because they have to isolate because they were contacts, Then there is the risk to those that treat you and the sheer stress of working in an overstretched intensive care, especially treating treating someone they know did not have to be there. Then there is the cost of your treatment, the stress on your family while you are ill. If god forbid, you die, how will your family fare, who carries that burden?

No, to me excessive speed and failure to vaccinate are both examples of the same thing, thoughtless selfishness.

Comments?

Ninthace

So BWSBoy6 re post #16416 which kicked this discussion off. What would you tell Gladys to do?

BWSBoy6

I would seriously tell Gladys not to bother. To use a basic metaphor, now we are all peeing in the wind. Delta is out there and we can’t stop it. All we can do is ensure everyone who can/wants to be vaccinated is reached, resources directed into need and ensuring and focussing the protection of the vulnerable.

Lockdowns are a very, very blunt tool. Of course they have an effect short term, but because of modern life, we’re always going to be leaky sieve. I’m sure you know the story of the village of Eyam in Derbyshire. They had an outbreak of bubonic plague brought in by infected cloth sent to the village tailor. It was infested with fleas. The villagers took the very noble decision to isolate completely from the rest of the world. Supplies were left for them outside by a well to ensure no contact and by their actions and sacrifices, the plague was entirely contained within the boundary. They paid a terrible price - 260 out of 800 people died but they saved the nearby city of Sheffield where had it got a foothold, the deaths would have been huge.

The only way a lockdown works is if there is absolutely no mixing. No exceptions. No visiting split families. Nothing. But we can’t live like that in a modern world where we are interdependent on outside agencies for food, medicine and daily requirements. Very few of us are self sufficient and can reasonably cut ourselves off from the world.

Boris is in an impossible position. Wouldn’t want to be in his shoes at the moment at all. The whole of earth is going to be watching the U.K. and the huge gamble he is taking - although I’m sure he has taken guidance from Messrs Whitty, Valance and Van Tam. After all, they’re the experts that have guided us through this far, have led every other decision made and we’ve never questioned their judgement before. I’m not aware of one them stepping out of line and saying the easing of restrictions should be further delayed - so presumably they should be equally accountable should it go pear shaped?

I suspect you and I are actually on the same page, we’re just reading it differently!