Coronavirus: The Thread
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 714
The fatality rate, while very sad has never been the overriding reason for lockdowns in any country. It is to protect capacity of the health services. We have seen the results in a few countries of an overwhelmed health service and peogple refused access to hospitals because they are full.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57836137
Birmingham hospitals cancel operations
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,482
Medical facilities in the UK are starting to feel the strain
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57836137
Birmingham hospitals cancel operations
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57836137
Birmingham hospitals cancel operations
A more sensible, nuanced unlocking would probably have been a far better policy.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,911
France has been put on a semi-red list status.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57869880
Covid: Fully jabbed UK arrivals from France must still quarantined
Fully vaccinated travellers returning to England from France will still have to quarantine for 10 days from Monday.
From 19 July, adults who have been jabbed in the UK arriving from other amber list countries will no longer need to isolate.
France will remain on the amber list. But the government said the planned relaxation of rules would not apply there due to "persistent presence of cases" of the Beta variant, which was first identified in South Africa…
The change means that anyone who has been in France in the previous 10 days will need to quarantine on arrival to England in their own accommodation and will need a day two and day eight test, regardless of their vaccination status.
This includes any fully vaccinated individual who transits through France from either a green or another amber country to reach England.
However, travellers have the option of shortening their quarantine period through the Test to Release scheme - if they pay for a test on day five and are negative.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57869880
Covid: Fully jabbed UK arrivals from France must still quarantined
Fully vaccinated travellers returning to England from France will still have to quarantine for 10 days from Monday.
From 19 July, adults who have been jabbed in the UK arriving from other amber list countries will no longer need to isolate.
France will remain on the amber list. But the government said the planned relaxation of rules would not apply there due to "persistent presence of cases" of the Beta variant, which was first identified in South Africa…
The change means that anyone who has been in France in the previous 10 days will need to quarantine on arrival to England in their own accommodation and will need a day two and day eight test, regardless of their vaccination status.
This includes any fully vaccinated individual who transits through France from either a green or another amber country to reach England.
However, travellers have the option of shortening their quarantine period through the Test to Release scheme - if they pay for a test on day five and are negative.
Last edited by ORAC; 16th Jul 2021 at 20:38.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,335
Given that it is kind of hard to work out why the UK gov ever planned to drop the requirement for inbound quarantine for returning Brits from France in the first place…..(actually the cynic would say it’s not hard to work out at all ).
One things for sure, the travel industry and peoples’ lives are continually being screwed by this “off again, ooops, on again” switching of restrictions.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: France
Posts: 490
I am trying to help an exceptionally talented young pianist to attend a Masterclass in Manchester in mid-August. He has limited financial resources, and has already paid for his course, his testing fees, his accommodation and his plane ticket. He cannot afford to quarantine in a hotel if the UK turns 'red', and will not be able to claim back all the money he has paid out so far. It's very stressful for him, and he doesn't know when the situation will be clarified beyond doubt and 'exceptions', even though he regularly checks with the UK Gov website. How long will this go on? As Wiggy rightly points out 'One things for sure, the travel industry and peoples’ lives are continually being screwed by this “off again, ooops, on again” switching of restrictions.' not just for UK citizens but for citizens of other Amber list countries intending to visit the UK.

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Age: 51
Posts: 0
I am trying to help an exceptionally talented young pianist to attend a Masterclass in Manchester in mid-August. He has limited financial resources, and has already paid for his course, his testing fees, his accommodation and his plane ticket. He cannot afford to quarantine in a hotel if the UK turns 'red', and will not be able to claim back all the money he has paid out so far. It's very stressful for him, and he doesn't know when the situation will be clarified beyond doubt and 'exceptions', even though he regularly checks with the UK Gov website. How long will this go on? As Wiggy rightly points out 'One things for sure, the travel industry and peoples’ lives are continually being screwed by this “off again, ooops, on again” switching of restrictions.' not just for UK citizens but for citizens of other Amber list countries intending to visit the UK.
Everyoone wants everything back to normal ASAP. Just accept this may (hopefully will not) take 4-5 years to sort itself out.
Yes people will be badly affected. But there is a precedent. WW1, WW2….etc. You do what you have to protect society.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 890
Seriously? A pianist? FFS stay in your own country until things settle down.
Everyoone wants everything back to normal ASAP. Just accept this may (hopefully will not) take 4-5 years to sort itself out.
Yes people will be badly affected. But there is a precedent. WW1, WW2….etc. You do what you have to protect society.
Everyoone wants everything back to normal ASAP. Just accept this may (hopefully will not) take 4-5 years to sort itself out.
Yes people will be badly affected. But there is a precedent. WW1, WW2….etc. You do what you have to protect society.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: ZRH
Age: 59
Posts: 565
Nobody likes it .Nobody wants it to continue, we all would love to get back to the life we had before. Only it ain't gonna happen.
We are in year 2 of the pandemic and while we have reached some milestone with the possibility of vaccination, we are nowhere near the end. I'd even think 4-5 years is optimistic. 5-10 years will be more likely, if it will ever allow us to go back to normal.
In the current situation, travel arrangements are high risk as the rules are written by pencil and change every day. Friends of mine were booted off a Malta flight last week, when Malta got their knickers in a twist over some AZ charges, without warning, compensation or even compassion. It's just like this, deal with it. You can be double vaccined, if someone deems your vaccine invalid, you are off the plane. If a mutation turns out to be resistent against a vaccine, you may find that other countries don't want you if you have it.
Personally, I have reduced my travel to absolutely essential and then buy the tickets a day or two before, as it is never clear what develops. Also, you have to count on quarantine where ever you go or on return, if something changes or paperwork is insufficient. There is no way to avoid that right now.
Therefore all the guy can do is sweat it and hope for the best, possibly try to get here early so he can finish a quarantine or testing regime before the course starts. Maybe the course organizers or others can help with the financial side of things or offer a place for quarantine. Other than that he has no choice. That it was a very naive decision to book or prepay something like this involving travel at the moment unfortunately is abundantly clear.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,911
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...-nhs-5085nwf5v
Millions offered flu vaccine to ease winter strain on NHS
The largest flu vaccination programme of its kind will launch this autumn as NHS chiefs seek to stave off a feared surge of infections. School children up to year 11 will be urged to have the flu vaccine and half the country will be eligible….
The 35 million offered the jab will include everyone over 50 and children aged two to 16, as well as clinically vulnerable people and pregnant women.
Last year a record 19 million seasonal flu jabs were administered, including to year 7 pupils for the first time, but the effect of lockdowns meant that the flu season was largely averted.
A government-commissioned report by the Academy of Medical Sciences raised the alarm this week that, following its suppression, the flu could rebound to potentially twice the normal levels, with as many as 40,000 deaths…..
Children will receive the vaccine as a nasal spray. For older people, the flu vaccines are expected to be delivered alongside a planned Covid-19 booster programme, designed to keep up immunity levels going into colder months.….
Millions offered flu vaccine to ease winter strain on NHS
The largest flu vaccination programme of its kind will launch this autumn as NHS chiefs seek to stave off a feared surge of infections. School children up to year 11 will be urged to have the flu vaccine and half the country will be eligible….
The 35 million offered the jab will include everyone over 50 and children aged two to 16, as well as clinically vulnerable people and pregnant women.
Last year a record 19 million seasonal flu jabs were administered, including to year 7 pupils for the first time, but the effect of lockdowns meant that the flu season was largely averted.
A government-commissioned report by the Academy of Medical Sciences raised the alarm this week that, following its suppression, the flu could rebound to potentially twice the normal levels, with as many as 40,000 deaths…..
Children will receive the vaccine as a nasal spray. For older people, the flu vaccines are expected to be delivered alongside a planned Covid-19 booster programme, designed to keep up immunity levels going into colder months.….
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,911
Israel
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i...ules-b9sq0q805
Israel on brink of lockdown
Israel faces the prospect of another lockdown only a month after social distancing and mask rules were dropped, amid a fourth wave of Covid-19.
Government sources warned that if Israelis failed to voluntarily observe social distancing the country may have to go into lockdown during the Jewish festival of Rosh Hashana, in eight weeks’ time. Naftali Bennett, the prime minister, tried to sound more upbeat: “We can beat coronavirus in five weeks — it’s just up to us.” ….
In recent months, Israel has reopened businesses, schools and event venues, lifting nearly all restrictions after it inoculated some 85 per cent of its adults, as well as reducing the 14-day quarantine period for travellers.
However, despite the country’s advanced vaccination campaign Bennett has called on Israelis to wear masks in closed public places once more and to avoid travel.
“The vaccine is not sufficient to fight against the Delta variant . . . we need the co-operation of citizens to defeat the coronavirus without having to impose a new lockdown,” he said, calling on children aged 12 to 16 to get vaccinated.
The Delta variant continues to spread in Israel: 855 new cases were reported on Thursday, the highest number since March 22. Although Israel’s 63 per cent total vaccination rate has until now prevented most infections turning into serious illness, the number of hospital cases has begun to go up, reaching a hundred yesterday….
There is no threat of hospitals being overwhelmed with serious cases. But the fact that the infections are continuing to rise and the new variant, against which the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is less effective, has forced the government to act.
Two weeks after the requirement to wear a mask in closed public spaces was dropped, it was hastily reimposed and with it the 500 shekel (£110) fine for non-compliance.
Despite government guidance against foreign travel, tens of thousands of Israelis have begun flying abroad for their summer holidays, many returning after becoming infected with the Delta variant…..
The “green pass”, which allowed only those who could demonstrate their vaccination status on an app to enter restaurants and music and sports venues, was abandoned last month. It is now being revived under a new name, the “happy pass”, for weddings and other big indoor events….
Amid fears that Israelis and visitors coming from abroad could import new cases, from yesterday all travellers were required to self-isolate for 24 hours upon arrival, regardless of their vaccination status, or until they receive a negative test result.
Those arriving from countries deemed to have high infection rates — which from next Friday will include Britain and Spain — will be required to quarantine for a full seven days and supply a negative test result.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i...ules-b9sq0q805
Israel on brink of lockdown
Israel faces the prospect of another lockdown only a month after social distancing and mask rules were dropped, amid a fourth wave of Covid-19.
Government sources warned that if Israelis failed to voluntarily observe social distancing the country may have to go into lockdown during the Jewish festival of Rosh Hashana, in eight weeks’ time. Naftali Bennett, the prime minister, tried to sound more upbeat: “We can beat coronavirus in five weeks — it’s just up to us.” ….
In recent months, Israel has reopened businesses, schools and event venues, lifting nearly all restrictions after it inoculated some 85 per cent of its adults, as well as reducing the 14-day quarantine period for travellers.
However, despite the country’s advanced vaccination campaign Bennett has called on Israelis to wear masks in closed public places once more and to avoid travel.
“The vaccine is not sufficient to fight against the Delta variant . . . we need the co-operation of citizens to defeat the coronavirus without having to impose a new lockdown,” he said, calling on children aged 12 to 16 to get vaccinated.
The Delta variant continues to spread in Israel: 855 new cases were reported on Thursday, the highest number since March 22. Although Israel’s 63 per cent total vaccination rate has until now prevented most infections turning into serious illness, the number of hospital cases has begun to go up, reaching a hundred yesterday….
There is no threat of hospitals being overwhelmed with serious cases. But the fact that the infections are continuing to rise and the new variant, against which the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is less effective, has forced the government to act.
Two weeks after the requirement to wear a mask in closed public spaces was dropped, it was hastily reimposed and with it the 500 shekel (£110) fine for non-compliance.
Despite government guidance against foreign travel, tens of thousands of Israelis have begun flying abroad for their summer holidays, many returning after becoming infected with the Delta variant…..
The “green pass”, which allowed only those who could demonstrate their vaccination status on an app to enter restaurants and music and sports venues, was abandoned last month. It is now being revived under a new name, the “happy pass”, for weddings and other big indoor events….
Amid fears that Israelis and visitors coming from abroad could import new cases, from yesterday all travellers were required to self-isolate for 24 hours upon arrival, regardless of their vaccination status, or until they receive a negative test result.
Those arriving from countries deemed to have high infection rates — which from next Friday will include Britain and Spain — will be required to quarantine for a full seven days and supply a negative test result.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,335
Seriously? A pianist? FFS stay in your own country until things settle down.
Everyoone wants everything back to normal ASAP. Just accept this may (hopefully will not) take 4-5 years to sort itself out.
Yes people will be badly affected. But there is a precedent. WW1, WW2….etc. You do what you have to protect society.
Everyoone wants everything back to normal ASAP. Just accept this may (hopefully will not) take 4-5 years to sort itself out.
Yes people will be badly affected. But there is a precedent. WW1, WW2….etc. You do what you have to protect society.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,911
Australia
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...covid-outbreak
Sydney lockdown shock as Premier admits NSW has failed to ‘quash’ Covid outbreak
Lockdown restrictions in Greater Sydney will be drastically tightened after the New South Wales premier, Gladys Berejiklian, conceded measures introduced three weeks ago were failing to stop an outbreak of more than 1,000 cases.….
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...covid-outbreak
Sydney lockdown shock as Premier admits NSW has failed to ‘quash’ Covid outbreak
Lockdown restrictions in Greater Sydney will be drastically tightened after the New South Wales premier, Gladys Berejiklian, conceded measures introduced three weeks ago were failing to stop an outbreak of more than 1,000 cases.….
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 714
Australia
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...covid-outbreak
Sydney lockdown shock as Premier admits NSW has failed to ‘quash’ Covid outbreak
Lockdown restrictions in Greater Sydney will be drastically tightened after the New South Wales premier, Gladys Berejiklian, conceded measures introduced three weeks ago were failing to stop an outbreak of more than 1,000 cases.….
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...covid-outbreak
Sydney lockdown shock as Premier admits NSW has failed to ‘quash’ Covid outbreak
Lockdown restrictions in Greater Sydney will be drastically tightened after the New South Wales premier, Gladys Berejiklian, conceded measures introduced three weeks ago were failing to stop an outbreak of more than 1,000 cases.….
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,911
I am not aware anyone claimed lockdowns don’t work - just that, in the case of nations with widespread cases, a short sharp lockdowns don’t work, they just delay the peak of a wave.
Long lockdowns almost work, but at great cost to the economy and society.
It may be that a short harder lockdown will work in NSW. It may be that a longer lockdown will now be required. Other states will be watching anxiously.
Time will tell if the Delta variant can be contained. Something which will also be watched with interest from elsewhere.
Long lockdowns almost work, but at great cost to the economy and society.
It may be that a short harder lockdown will work in NSW. It may be that a longer lockdown will now be required. Other states will be watching anxiously.
Time will tell if the Delta variant can be contained. Something which will also be watched with interest from elsewhere.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 714
I am not aware anyone claimed lockdowns don’t work - just that, in the case of nations with widespread cases, a short sharp lockdowns don’t work, they just delay the peak of a wave.
Long lockdowns almost work, but at great cost to the economy and society.
It may be that a short harder lockdown will work in NSW. It may be that a longer lockdown will now be required. Other states will be watching anxiously.
Time will tell if the Delta variant can be contained. Something which will also be watched with interest from elsewhere.
Long lockdowns almost work, but at great cost to the economy and society.
It may be that a short harder lockdown will work in NSW. It may be that a longer lockdown will now be required. Other states will be watching anxiously.
Time will tell if the Delta variant can be contained. Something which will also be watched with interest from elsewhere.

Some examples, I stopped looking very rapidly.
Post#16381
Post#16360
Post #10447

Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 1
There was a wonderful thread on the Antipodes forum about the experience of getting the vaccination. Unfortunately it's been hijacked by the usual screaming heads and the valuable feedback in there has been lost.
I wonder how the major health insurers will see a vaccinated population in the very near future. Forget "herd immunity" for a second, at some stage the population of a nation will reach a point where the majority are vaccinated and enough supply will always be available for the remainder. When this occurs, health insurance companies will probably change their policies to exclude the unvaccinated from hospital cover unless an extra premium is paid - this is the commercial world at it's best. This then gets industry off the hook and the nation can start opening up again. Choosing to have the vaccine or not (or delay it) will always be left to the individual, much like speeding, you wear your own risk and your options are always open.
BTW, the NSW lockdown wasn't what you call a real lockdown, it was more like window dressing, and it was inevitable that they have been caught out.
I wonder how the major health insurers will see a vaccinated population in the very near future. Forget "herd immunity" for a second, at some stage the population of a nation will reach a point where the majority are vaccinated and enough supply will always be available for the remainder. When this occurs, health insurance companies will probably change their policies to exclude the unvaccinated from hospital cover unless an extra premium is paid - this is the commercial world at it's best. This then gets industry off the hook and the nation can start opening up again. Choosing to have the vaccine or not (or delay it) will always be left to the individual, much like speeding, you wear your own risk and your options are always open.
BTW, the NSW lockdown wasn't what you call a real lockdown, it was more like window dressing, and it was inevitable that they have been caught out.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 58
Posts: 10,111
Arranged a restaurant dinner for six of us ex-colleagues for next Friday - two are now self isolating/testing as their sons have tested positive after 21st birthday booze ups with their mates last weekend... will be cancelling the meal later, hopefully we can reschedule for later in the year - one is getting married in September and we were all due to attend that...
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Under a gooseberry bush
Posts: 65
I wasn't accusing anyone in particular. Trawl through from post #1. I'm sure they're there, perhaps associated with a" let it rip and get it over with" or "we are all sheep" theme or a "its no worse than flu" claim.
Trouble is the search engine only works on key words and lockdown as a term gives too many hits but we have both read posts on this theme.
Some examples, I stopped looking very rapidly.
Post#16381
Post#16360
Post #10447

Some examples, I stopped looking very rapidly.
Post#16381
Post#16360
Post #10447
Linda Bauld, Chair of Health at Edinburgh University is a regular guest on BBC and is generally not in favour of easing restrictions. However, this morning she admitted that many of those in hospital now are younger unvaccinated people who are successfully treated and discharged in a matter of days. When we look at the scary hospital admission figures, worth bearing in mind.