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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 18th Jun 2021, 13:42
  #15921 (permalink)  
 
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This one ? You left a bit out.

https://www.astrazeneca.com/content/...to-europe.html

Jeffrey Pott, General Counsel, said: “We are pleased with the Court’s order. AstraZeneca has fully complied with its agreement with the European Commission and we will continue to focus on the urgent task of supplying an effective vaccine, which we are delivering at no profit to help protect people in Europe and around the world from the deadliest pandemic in a generation.”

All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

The judgement also acknowledged that the difficulties experienced by AstraZeneca in this unprecedented situation had a substantial impact on the delay. AstraZeneca now looks forward to renewed collaboration with the European Commission to help combat the pandemic in Europe.


Or as the FT puts it

The European Commission has lost a legal bid to force AstraZeneca to deliver millions more doses of its Covid-19 vaccines or face large fines.

Last edited by Mr Optimistic; 18th Jun 2021 at 14:12.
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 14:17
  #15922 (permalink)  
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So, correct me if I am wrong,

AZ has a new delivery schedule which, it seems, they are now in a position, and are happy, to comply with. (In which case the 10€ penalty per dose won’t apply).

No penalties of any kind have been awarded for their previous shortfall in deliveries.

All other claims of priority delivery by the EU have been dismissed.

I can see why the EU might want to slant this as a victory and then let the matter quietly die - as would AZ.

Last edited by ORAC; 18th Jun 2021 at 14:52.
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 14:41
  #15923 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed. You would think that the companies which so successfully developed vaccines at breakneck speed would be shown goodwill. Unfortunately it appears not from all quarters. Reporting of the clotting risk has been similarly charged with bile. Has Brexit poisoned minds?
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 15:19
  #15924 (permalink)  
 
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This is being reported by the BBC today:

Of 806 people infected with the Delta variant who ended up hospital in England:
  • 527 (65%) people were unvaccinated
  • 135 (17%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine
  • 84 (10%) were more than 14 days after their second dose
As of 14 June, there have been 73 deaths in England of people who were confirmed as having the Delta variant and who died within 28 days of a positive test, and of these:
  • 34 (47%) were unvaccinated
  • 10 (14%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine
  • 26 (36%) were more than 14 days after their second dose

It would be interesting to know how many of those hospitalised/died, who had received two doses, had underlying health conditions. That would give a much clearer picture of how truly beneficial the vaccine is. I only ask because the percentage of fatalities in that last group does seem higher than I would expect.
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 15:38
  #15925 (permalink)  
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Nothing directly, but a Scottish study shows that those with 5 or more comorbidities were likely to be hospitalised….

https://www.openaccessgovernment.org...-covid/113003/

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...358-1/fulltext
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 15:45
  #15926 (permalink)  
 
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It would be interesting to know how many of those hospitalised/died, who had received two doses, had underlying health conditions. That would give a much clearer picture of how truly beneficial the vaccine is. I only ask because the percentage of fatalities in that last group does seem higher than I would expect.
I posted a week ago about a GP telling me that there were apparently a good number of cases where twice vaccinated patients were anonymously tested for the spike protein and found to have little or no immunity compared to the unvaccinated, and this was tentatively being linked to genetic factors, much as there have been rare cases of extreme reactions to the varying covid products on offer, whilst others have sailed through the process with ease.
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 16:34
  #15927 (permalink)  
 
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SHJ, how does a patient get "anonymously tested"?
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 16:36
  #15928 (permalink)  
 
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a GP telling me that there were apparently a good number of cases where twice vaccinated patients were anonymously tested for the spike protein and found to have little or no immunity compared to the unvaccinated
Ask your GP for the reference to this. It will turn hundreds of other papers on their heads.

The fact is that people who are immunosuppressed produce less neutralising antibodies to the mRNA vaccines. It was assumed virtually nil but a US paper on renal transplant recipients suggested they still produced 41% of normal people. Although there is some drop off with age all other people produce many times more NAb than required to remain safe.

There is far less data on the Astra Zeneca vaccine and I do wonder whether data is being withheld in the UK as it is with the vaccination deliveries, but the fact remains that we are not seeing vaccinated individuals being admitted overnight with low oxygen levels let alone dying. In the US the CDC published data on 101 MILLION vaccinated individuals reporting 126 deaths. 28 were definitely not covid but many others probably were not yet more than 100 in the 101 million would be immunosuppressed

So I consider myself post 2 doses of Pfizer immune for the time being.
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 16:41
  #15929 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack View Post
I posted a week ago about a GP telling me that there were apparently a good number of cases where twice vaccinated patients were anonymously tested for the spike protein and found to have little or no immunity compared to the unvaccinated, and this was tentatively being linked to genetic factors, much as there have been rare cases of extreme reactions to the varying covid products on offer, whilst others have sailed through the process with ease.
Not sure 'immunity' is the right word. Presumably tested for antibodies. My wife and I were tested for antibodies after one jab. Interval after jab for me was 10 weeks or so, wife a lot less. She was positive for antibodies, I was negative. Antibodies aren't the whole immunity story though and some tests look for two types of antibodies, others just one. An earlier post on this thread showed an example. Think our test was for just one. Due to be tested again soon, we both have had two shots now ( pfizer). I am hoping for antibodies......😁
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 18:00
  #15930 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post

I can see why the EU might want to slant this as a victory and then let the matter quietly die - as would AZ.
The actual court ruling stated that:

1. The court found AZ was at "serious fault".

2. Costs - AZ pay 70%, EU pay 30%.................

And now as you say probably best left to die quietly for the sakes of both sides.

One of several sources:

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Old 18th Jun 2021, 19:24
  #15931 (permalink)  
 
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SHJ, how does a patient get "anonymously tested"?
I'm not sure, only repeating a conversation I had with a nice lady about her dog in a park. We got talking, she told me she was a GP and the conversation flowed for some minutes before we went our ways. I can only imagine that the tested material must come from other purposes, such as blood, stool, saliva, skin swabs monitoring for whatever and within those samples spike protein levels have been taken but not affiliated with a patient but as a generalised scheme to explore the effects of the immunisations.

She seemed genuine and I got the feeling that there was a concern there, but who knows ? Not I.
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 20:27
  #15932 (permalink)  
 
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only repeating a conversation I had with a nice lady about her dog in a park. We got talking, she told me she was a GP and the conversation flowed for some minutes
I tell people I am the prime minister. Most dont believe me. Must be the dress
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 21:17
  #15933 (permalink)  
 
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I tell people I am the prime minister. Most dont believe me. Must be the dress
I take your point, but the way it came up (regarding the dog not being allowed at her office) and at my behest further questions were answered and within these questions this information came up. In no way was she pushing anything or gave the impression that I was chatting with a fantasist. It matters not if someone wants to give credence, or not to that which I've passed on in this thread. I found it both interesting and somewhat concerning.
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 05:03
  #15934 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
The actual court ruling stated that:

1. The court found AZ was at "serious fault".

2. Costs - AZ pay 70%, EU pay 30%.................

And now as you say probably best left to die quietly for the sakes of both sides.

One of several sources:

https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/stat...32997229092873
In other words, the only winners were our silver tongue lawyer friends.
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 05:29
  #15935 (permalink)  
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Going back to the AZ versus EU Commission court case. how much dose a good barrister charge an hour????

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-covid-vaccine

EU fails in court action to secure urgent 120m doses of Oxford Covid vaccine

The EU has failed in a legal attempt to secure an urgent 120m vaccine doses from AstraZeneca by the end of this month, while securing a judgment that sites in Oxford and Staffordshire should have been used in the past to make good on deliveries.

The court of first instance in Brussels ordered the Anglo-Swedish company to deliver just 10m more than it has already provided by the end of September, and make “best efforts”, including potentially the use of UK facilities, to provide the further 220m jabs to which it is contractually committed.…..

The court ordered AstraZeneca to pay just 30% of the commission’s legal fees, with a cap set at €4,000 (£3,440).…….
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 06:08
  #15936 (permalink)  
 
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More from Politco..


Both sides Claim a WIn

Edit to add: With reference to costs mentioned once or twice above..I'm afraid that the opinion elsewhere of many of those who can both read French and understand court rulings is that for some reason the Guardian and some other papers have got this the wrong way around..in the actual original (French language) ruling it states that AZ pay 70% of the costs, the EU 30%, subject to the Cap.

Last edited by wiggy; 19th Jun 2021 at 08:25.
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 08:06
  #15937 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
SHJ, how does a patient get "anonymously tested"?
It probably just means that the samples submitted were analysed as part of a survey where results cannot be traced back to an individual. Very common.
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Old 21st Jun 2021, 06:05
  #15938 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/j...irus-558t5f6kv

Just 1 in 200 amber list travellers have coronavirus

Fewer than one in 200 travellers from amber list countries are testing positive on their return, data has revealed, as pressure increases on ministers to relax rules on foreign holidays.

An analysis of the latest figures from NHS Test and Trace, which are updated every three weeks, also shows no “variants of concern” were detected from any passenger returning from one of the 167 countries on the amber list.

Only 89 of 23,465 passengers who travelled to the UK from these destinations between May 20 and June 9 tested positive for the coronavirus — a rate of 0.4 per cent. There were no positive cases from 151 of these countries…..

Nobody travelling from countries on the quarantine-free “green list” — which includes 11 destinations at present — tested positive during the same period and there were no variants of concern found…..

The rate of positive tests from travellers from countries on the red list — which requires ten days of hotel quarantine — was more than four times as high as those from amber countries during the three-week period.

Some 435 of the 24,511 people arriving from red list countries had coronavirus, or 1.8 per cent, with 89 variants of concern detected, according to NHS Test and Trace.

The original destination of a further 22,445 people was unknown but the positivity rate was 0.4 per cent, with 26 variants of concern found…..

Last night Conservative MPs and travel experts said the data revealed that the border restrictions were too strict as they increased pressure on ministers to significantly expand the green list when they meet on Thursday.

They also said the data strengthened the case for allowing travellers who have had both jabs to be exempt from quarantine, a policy which a senior cabinet minister has appeared to support…..

Ministers could announce the policy as early as next Monday, when the first “milestone” review of the traffic light system for foreign travel is due.…..
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Old 21st Jun 2021, 06:28
  #15939 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post

Last night Conservative MPs and travel experts said the data revealed that the border restrictions were too strict as they increased pressure on ministers to significantly expand the green list when they meet on Thursday.

They also said the data strengthened the case for allowing travellers who have had both jabs to be exempt from quarantine, a policy which a senior cabinet minister has appeared to support…..

Ministers could announce the policy as early as next Monday, when the first “milestone” review of the traffic light system for foreign travel is due.…..
..FWIW there's a Transport Industry day of Action on Wednesday with amongst other things representatives of the industry travelling to Westminster to lobby for a relaxation in the UK's restrictions. Many employees in those industries are believed also be planning to attend some form of mass gatherings in central London and elsewhere but there are restrictions on numbers due to the current regulations...

It will be interesting to see how widely it is reported in the MSM and how it will play with the very vocal "just close the borders" lobby....if there isn't some relaxation very soon the summer season will be done and dusted .......and so will many UK companies...

https://www.abta.com/traveldayofacti...mmer%20period.
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Old 21st Jun 2021, 07:08
  #15940 (permalink)  
 
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There is no way HMG will remove the restriction for quarantine for the fully vaccinated from next Monday. (perhaps I've misinterpreted the previous post)

There was talk last week that it wouldn't be implemented until at least August... enough time for it to be kicked into the long grass no doubt.

It is also being reported this morning that just 89 out of around 25,000 travellers from Amber countries tested positive for Covid per latest T&T figures... note, this is a higher rate than the population at large.
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