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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 11th Jan 2021, 11:18
  #12921 (permalink)  
jvr
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: europe
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
The first line of defence is largely mechanical, a constantly moving layer of mucous that moves entrained particles out of the lungs and airway (and hence away from the vulnerable main viral target epithelial cells). The immune system cannot be triggered until an infective agent penetrates beyond this initial, largely mechanical, barrier. This barrier isn't 100% effective, but does a pretty good job (in most people) of getting rid of the majority of bacteria and viruses that may cause infection, as well as dust etc that may cause irritation. I believe that, in order for infection to occur, and hence the immune system proper to be triggered, requires an infective agent to get past this mechanical barrier, and that becomes more likely the greater the volume of such an agent that's present.
And in the meantime the same person definitely is testing positive...
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 12:04
  #12922 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
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Had a bit of a wake up call last week - heavy cold for a few days, feared the worst and was on the verge of requesting a test but it quickly cleared up and am fine now (I didn't have any of the classic Covid symptoms). I am concerned as to how I picked up the bug since our household biosecurity is pretty good (everyone working from home/home-schooling, no socialising etc). My only thought is that our hand santizing regime has become a bit lax, particularly post-supermarket shop. Just goes to show how vigilant one must be - you can't let your guard down for even an instant.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 12:14
  #12923 (permalink)  
 
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 13:07
  #12924 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
We are getting a new suite delivered this Wednesday, two trades people coming in and out of the house. Again, though we very much want the new suite, is delivery of it really essential? Will the old one not last another month or so? Clearly the manufacturer wants to deliver it as getting paid, which goes hand in hand with delivery, as they will need cashflow and there does, as Whitty said this morning, have to be a fine balance to be made between public and health and the economy.

I just feel that the "softer" the restrictions imposed now, the longer they will have to go on, and the more people will tire of them and begin to disregard them even more than they are doing today.
So why did you order it?, that whole paragraph is pure hypocrisy
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 13:10
  #12925 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by PR0PWASH View Post
So why did you order it?, that whole paragraph is pure hypocrisy
When we ordered it we were in Tier 3, delivery time was extended due to, you've guessed it (no, not Brexit!!) Covid-19!! Perhaps thinking before posting might have been a good idea?
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 13:34
  #12926 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 68
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I have a very great deal of sympathy for anyone caught out by the shifting goalposts over the past few months. The last minute changes in government rules played havoc with the arrangements that millions of people made, and even the best made plans seemed to go up in smoke due to the plethora of short notice changes.

As an example, we booked a Christmas break in a hotel back in August, when there were few restrictions, but planned ahead by choosing a hotel that had suites that consisted of pretty much detached cottages in the grounds. We did this, on the basis that it was probably a safer option, as we'd be better able to remain at a safe distance from people. A few weeks before Christmas the tier system was introduced, but luckily both our location and that of the hotel were in Tier 2, so the Christmas break was still on. The hotel changed a few things around, cancelled the Boxing Day ball, and instead set up a gala dinner for Boxing Day. Just before we left to go on this Christmas break the government changed the rules yet again, decreeing that the hotel had to close at midnight on Christmas Day, in effect. There was a lot of searching for clarification as to what the hotel could do, and finally they sorted out an arrangement that I think may have skated around the very edge of the new rules, by cancelling the gala dinner, closing the restaurants at midnight on Christmas Day and offering a room service menu for Boxing Day and breakfast the day after. That hotel ended up with masses of waste food, as by the time the government announced the late change to the rules over Christmas they had already ordered in much of the food for the Boxing Day dinner, only some of which could be re-used for the revised room service menu.

Criticising someone, just because they have been victims of one of the many government U turns in rulemaking, seems a bit crass, as no one seems to have been able to accurately guess what this bunch of buffoons will do next, even those businesses with a significant vested interest in trying to predict future changes like this.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 14:07
  #12927 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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None of the new vaccination centres appear to serve East Anglia, or for that matter the eastern seaboard of the UK.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 14:15
  #12928 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
When we ordered it we were in Tier 3, delivery time was extended due to, you've guessed it (no, not Brexit!!) Covid-19!! Perhaps thinking before posting might have been a good idea?

You could have cancelled it and tbh being only in Tier 3 makes bu99er all difference you've been criticising others actions all the way through this for being lax but of course its different when its you that needs a new sofa and you were perfectly safe when it was just tier 3..yea sure
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 14:19
  #12929 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
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"As an example, we booked a Christmas break in a hotel back in August, when there were few restrictions, but planned ahead by choosing a hotel that had suites that consisted of pretty much detached cottages in the grounds. We did this, on the basis that it was probably a safer option,"

Again, I have no sympathy, this isnt about what the rules are its about having some consideration for others and planning an outing with as shared dining facilities when you of all people know very well the risks yet are quite happy to criticise everyone else is more hypocrisy, there are afew people in here chucking concrete blocks around and forgetting the glass house they reside in
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 14:23
  #12930 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Norwich
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My daughter has been asked by her local university trust if as a third year psychotherapy student that she can be used as bank staff to help out with the post ICU long covid patients that are in the hospital. No brainer for her as it improves her community psycho experience and gets her name known at the hospitals for employment opportunities later in the year. No doubts many other NHS trusts tied into universities are doing the same.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 14:25
  #12931 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PR0PWASH View Post
You could have cancelled it and tbh being only in Tier 3 makes bu99er all difference you've been criticising others actions all the way through this for being lax but of course its different when its you that needs a new sofa and you were perfectly safe when it was just tier 3..yea sure
Sorry that is pure garbage. Retailers were open for business, and if HMG had banned non-essential trades people into homes then we would have been happy to comply with that.

Nobody is perfectly safe anywhere, any time and I don't believe anyone can be criticised for working within the regulations. We aren't so much as prodding them, let alone flexing them.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 14:51
  #12932 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bucharest
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Originally Posted by Landflap View Post
Forget all the if, but, asymptomatic etc. Let's just assume I really do not have the virus but step outside. How on earth am I increasing the risk of infection?
That's the problem. We can't just assume that. You might be sure you don't have it and be wrong. Even people with symptoms sometimes assume they don't have the virus: "Oh, never mind this cough, it's just the cold water I drank yesterday evening."

The safest thing is not to do it, unless absolutely necessary, because we can't trust everyone to be able to self-diagnose themselves properly.

Also, dismissing the possibility of pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic transmission is not very wise, in my opinion.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 15:28
  #12933 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bucharest
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
As an example, we booked a Christmas break in a hotel back in August, when there were few restrictions, but planned ahead by choosing a hotel that had suites that consisted of pretty much detached cottages in the grounds.
[...]
Criticising someone, just because they have been victims of one of the many government U turns in rulemaking, seems a bit crass, as no one seems to have been able to accurately guess what this bunch of buffoons will do next, even those businesses with a significant vested interest in trying to predict future changes like this.
Usually, it's wise to plan things in advance. But planning an event 4 months in the future in these uncertain times is very risky.

It's hard to guess what the government will do when you can't be sure how the pandemic and the virus will evolve. For example, it would have been quite hard to anticipate that a new more infectious virus variant will become prevalent in December. Many governments around the world were surprised by the intensity of this winter wave and had to take emergency measures they didn't plan for.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 15:32
  #12934 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
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Originally Posted by MikeSnow View Post
The safest thing is not to do it, unless absolutely necessary, because we can't trust everyone to be able to self-diagnose themselves properly.
I'd amend that to "we can't trust everyone anyone to be able to self-diagnose themselves properly".

The big problem is that we have a proportion of the population who, to put it bluntly, don't give a shit about others, and are not the slightest bit concerned if their own actions place the lives of others at risk. Over the years we have taken great strides forward in passing legislation to give everyone greater rights, but at the same time we seem to have lost sight of the fact that everyone also has a responsibility to others, that goes along with their rights. Having the right to walk freely down a street does not imply the right to do so in a manner that places the lives of others at risk, any more than giving someone the right to own a firearm implies a right to use it to kill people.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 15:38
  #12935 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
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What with that and the revelation that dog grooming business (one example) are allowed to stay open (essential, or what??)
And I am now sporting a haystack on my head! So it is OK for the doggies to have their hair cut but not me? The next time anybody murmurs "it's a dog's life", he is going to get chinned!
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 15:40
  #12936 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bedford
Age: 46
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Cool Spectacles steaming

And I saw a comment from someone slightly over half my age to the effect that it is all down to old people pulling their masks down to stop their spectacles misting up. Tosh! It used to bother me when my specs misted up and I could see it wasn't happening to others. Then an older lady put me wise; use the wire around the edge of the mask to shape the upper edge of the mask and to keep that edge outside of the glasses. Works a treat! But I doubt that will stop the "Blame the old codgers" brigade.[/QUOTE]

Please re-read the original post. That is not what was written.
Health Authorities are required to do a risk assessment prior to new locations being used for vaccinations. At the moment the group being vaccinated is predominantly elderly. As ATNotts pointed out, elderly people are more prone to need glasses and not everyone is privy to the excellent advice given on this forum on how to avoid glasses steaming up whilst wearing a mask. It is by no means only the elderly who lower their masks below their noses or wear them like a chin hammock. If it is likely, however, that many in your target group will lower their masks below their nose and your target group is particularly vulnerable and the disease spreads more easily inside, it mitigates the risk to have your group spend as little time queuing inside as possible.
No-one is having a go at old codgers. Stay safe and I hope you get your vaccinations soon.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 15:41
  #12937 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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None of the new vaccination centres appear to serve East Anglia, or for that matter the eastern seaboard of the UK.
More centres are to be opened every week - for example, as I said a few posts ago, Brighton race course is to open as a centre next week.

The government has stated that, by the end of January no place in England, apart from some remote areas, will be farther than 10 miles from a vaccination centre - and any that are will be covered by mobile vaccination units which will visit them as required.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 16:04
  #12938 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 320
ORAC, thanks,good to hear.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 16:08
  #12939 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 68
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Originally Posted by MikeSnow View Post
Usually, it's wise to plan things in advance. But planning an event 4 months in the future in these uncertain times is very risky.

It's hard to guess what the government will do when you can't be sure how the pandemic and the virus will evolve. For example, it would have been quite hard to anticipate that a new more infectious virus variant will become prevalent in December. Many governments around the world were surprised by the intensity of this winter wave and had to take emergency measures they didn't plan for.
Just to be clear, booking that far in advance was just to secure a provisional reservation slot, we had the option to cancel up to two weeks before, but at that time there seemed no reason to do so, as not only were both our location and that of the hotel in Tier 2, it also seemed very unlikely, given the relatively low prevalence of the disease in both areas, that things would change over the Christmas period. Remember that, right up until that last-minute change, the government had been reinforcing the view that Christmas would be OK, if adequate precautions were taken (which we fully intended to do).
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 16:08
  #12940 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 74
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Now then.. back again to driving/travelling away from your home. Boris seemed to be under the impression that travelling from London to Bristol in order to do a bit of self-aggrandisement/PR etc is OK?
If he had an overwhelming urge to watch a pensioner getting a needle stuck in her arm, he could have done that just as effectively at Epsom. A bloody sight closer to home than Bristol! Still, "Do as I say, not as I do". Perhaps his optician has moved to Bristol?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55621228
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