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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 23rd May 2020, 12:53
  #7121 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps because of a so what factor?
Yep - sounds about right. An apathetic electorate deriving their opinions from the daily bile spewed out by the (thankfully diminishing) assemblage of The Press.
No change there, then!
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Old 23rd May 2020, 13:26
  #7122 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Old 23rd May 2020, 13:44
  #7123 (permalink)  
 
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Cumming's behaviour is good news for anyone else choosing to interpret the rules as they think best suit their circumstances. It also explains why the police are not very enthusiastic about getting involved in trying to enforce something that is unclear if this kind of self isolation is acceptable. It appears Cummings was infectious at the time he made the journey and knew that his wife had tested positive. Was she travelling with him in the car? At the very least it gives a very mixed message about how seriously people high up in the administration were taking things at the time.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 14:07
  #7124 (permalink)  
 
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It appears that, at the time the journey was made, his wife had symptoms of the disease, he'd officially decided to leave work and "self-isolate" (using his own unique interpretation of that term), and he drove them all to his parent's place in County Durham. Whether he had symptoms at the time they all made this journey isn't clear, but it was reported, by his wife, that he developed severe symptoms at some point.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 14:14
  #7125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lederhosen View Post
Cumming's behaviour is good news for anyone else choosing to interpret the rules as they think best suit their circumstances. It also explains why the police are not very enthusiastic about getting involved in trying to enforce something that is unclear if this kind of self isolation is acceptable. It appears Cummings was infectious at the time he made the journey and knew that his wife had tested positive. Was she travelling with him in the car? At the very least it gives a very mixed message about how seriously people high up in the administration were taking things at the time.
Totally right.

I'm afraid the behaviours by Cummings, Ferguson, Jenrick, Calderwood, Stephen Kinnock et al sends a very strong message to us all. Why are we merely accepting instructions and complying for the good of each other and the NHS which they choose to disregard? I don’t care what political persuasion they are.

Even more disappointing that Cummings and his wife were both either displaying symptoms or directly exposed to infection but chose to travel to another area and expose further family members.


I’m afraid the regular patronising briefing telling us what wonderful efforts we have all made is starting to stick in my craw. Clearly, the powers that be don’t think this virus is as dangerous as they’ve made it out to be.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 14:33
  #7126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
Even more disappointing that Cummings and his wife were both either displaying symptoms or directly exposed to infection but chose to travel to another area and expose further family members.
Not just other family members.
On a journey that length they very likely stopped for fuel/refreshment/toilet, leaving a virus trail behind them.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 14:38
  #7127 (permalink)  
 
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Have a read of this article in the FT. Free to view. Nice table shows the risk with age and comirbitities. Essentially the age dependency matches natural rates so shorthand is it doubles the risk of death in the next 12 months . Also demolishes the idea they would have died anyway line ( well maybe 15% would have).
But yes, the risk isn't that high for most and doesn't exceed 25% even for over 85s with 3 comirbitities. Trouble is if you multiply a big number like population by a number that is small by most standards you still get a result you'd rather avoid.
https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2020/05/...-coming-year-/
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Old 23rd May 2020, 14:46
  #7128 (permalink)  
 
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I refer you to my comments concerning upwards of 20.000 visitors per day coming unchecked into the country via our airports. where is the faux outrage ? Where is the 'not something that I would ever do', 'my family needs come last when considering the welfare of my fellows'.

50,000/100,000 unchecked can come in every day, their health and fitness comes before my family.

There, that should satisfy most of you
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Old 23rd May 2020, 14:52
  #7129 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Kremmen View Post
I refer you to my comments concerning upwards of 20.000 visitors per day coming unchecked into the country via our airports. where is the faux outrage ? Where is the 'not something that I would ever do', 'my family needs come last when considering the welfare of my fellows'.

50,000/100,000 unchecked can come in every day, their health and fitness comes before my family.

There, that should satisfy most of you
I really donít like conspiracy theories and I canít see an ulterior motive, but by not having any kind of border control or screening of potential carriers suggests to me that this virus ainít actually capable of what weíve been told it is. If it truly was as deadly as has been implied, the authorities would have got a grip of this ages ago.

​​​​​​​Have we all been sold a pup at massive cost to our economy?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 15:33
  #7130 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
I really donít like conspiracy theories and I canít see an ulterior motive, but by not having any kind of border control or screening of potential carriers suggests to me that this virus ainít actually capable of what weíve been told it is. If it truly was as deadly as has been implied, the authorities would have got a grip of this ages ago.

Have we all been sold a pup at massive cost to our economy?
​​​​​​​So 40000 people haven't died? That's good news. I'm relieved to hear it. My parents can go shopping again.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 15:39
  #7131 (permalink)  
 
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It now appears that the UK is doing relatively well compared to our neighbours when it comes to percentage of deaths occurring in care homes compared to the overall total of covid-19 deaths.

Here's the Guido link for the easy picture and here's the link to the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control's report where the figures are derived from.
  • Spain 66%
  • Norway 61% (including out of hospital settings)
  • Belgium 51%
  • Sweden 50%
  • France 50%
  • Germany 37%
  • UK 21%
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Old 23rd May 2020, 15:46
  #7132 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting how this was dismissed by a friend of Cummings as 'more fake news from the Guardian'. It is fascinating how this Trumpism has become so devalued that it is now used to dismiss any inconvenient facts. It is proven and accepted by all parties that he was not self isolating at home. According to The Times:

Last night a police source said that Mr Cummings’s travel to Durham did not appear to comply with the lockdown guidelines at the time, adding: “A child was only supposed to move between the homes of split parents, not between parents and grandparents.” The reasonable excuse test for travel was unlikely to have been met. “And being in such a high-profile position, you would need to be very careful to be doing exactly the right thing.

But special rules apply if you are senior enough. Interesting that the scientists and doctors are expected to resign but not Cummings.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 16:33
  #7133 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
So 40000 people haven't died? That's good news. I'm relieved to hear it. My parents can go shopping again.
To you and me - yes - 40,000 deaths are an horrific and frightening number and a very suitable deterrent not to flaunt the advice but clearly not enough of one that bothers those in charge.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 16:43
  #7134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lederhosen View Post
Interesting how this was dismissed by a friend of Cummings as 'more fake news from the Guardian'. It is fascinating how this Trumpism has become so devalued that it is now used to dismiss any inconvenient facts. It is proven and accepted by all parties that he was not self isolating at home. According to The Times:

Last night a police source said that Mr Cummingsís travel to Durham did not appear to comply with the lockdown guidelines at the time, adding: ďA child was only supposed to move between the homes of split parents, not between parents and grandparents.Ē The reasonable excuse test for travel was unlikely to have been met. ďAnd being in such a high-profile position, you would need to be very careful to be doing exactly the right thing.Ē

But special rules apply if you are senior enough. Interesting that the scientists and doctors are expected to resign but not Cummings.
Perhaps Prof. Ferguson had to go because his forecasts on previous occasions had been wide of the mark. He was perhaps seen as unreliable.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 17:20
  #7135 (permalink)  
 
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Good point Captain Kremmen so by that definition Cummings is reliable. It is all rather Orwellian as in 'some animals are equaler than others'.

On another note and trying not to be confrontational LowNSlow. But I am not sure a lower percentage of deaths in care homes is automatically positive. If you have almost no deaths in the wider community then the percentage of old and frail dying after being tested positive for Covid is not necessarily a very meaningful figure.

If we take the UK figure from the study 7000 residents died out of 33000 total Covid deaths, while in Germany it was 3000 out of 8000. So with a population a third bigger, Germany had less than half the deaths in care homes. Whilst I am sure there are some differences in measurement, I think this demonstrates that 37% versus 21% does not tell the whole story.

Last edited by lederhosen; 23rd May 2020 at 17:35.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 17:26
  #7136 (permalink)  
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If you have almost no deaths in the wider community then the percentage of old and frail dying after being tested positive for Covid is not necessarily a very meaningful figure.
The main cause of complaint has been the lack of tests - the ONS figures include all deaths in care homes.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 22:01
  #7137 (permalink)  
 
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Obviously No Common Sense!
Sent by a friend .... An Obituary printed in the London Times.......

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years.
No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:


- Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
- Why the early bird gets the worm;
- Life isn't always fair;
- And maybe it was my fault.


Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children.

It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot.She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death,
-by his parents, Truth and Trust,
-by his wife, Discretion,
-by his daughter, Responsibility,
-and by his son, Reason.


He is survived by his 5 stepchildren;
- I Know My Rights
- I Want It Now
- Someone Else Is To Blame
- I'm A Victim
- Pay me for Doing Nothing


Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.
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Old 24th May 2020, 07:20
  #7138 (permalink)  
 
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Alsacienne
Very cynical but frighteningly true in the UK / USA I fear.
Kind regards
Mr Mac
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Old 24th May 2020, 10:14
  #7139 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
It now appears that the UK is doing relatively well compared to our neighbours when it comes to percentage of deaths occurring in care homes compared to the overall total of covid-19 deaths.

Here's the Guido link for the easy picture and here's the link to the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control's report where the figures are derived from.
  • Spain 66%
  • Norway 61% (including out of hospital settings)
  • Belgium 51%
  • Sweden 50%
  • France 50%
  • Germany 37%
  • UK 21%
Could it be that our 21% at the bottom of the list is really because we have had so many deaths outside care homes?
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Old 24th May 2020, 10:35
  #7140 (permalink)  
 
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Well if you want to wade through the previous 358 pages you will see that many of us are pursuaded by alternative theories. In many cases, like me, because they sound more plausible than the daily trotting out of stats and graphs and self congratulations as seen in the UK briefing.

Sallyanne : How many of your quoted 40,000 died of the virus or had underlying conditions ? Was the treatment appropriate ? I am told that shoving oxygen down the throat of someone with pneumonia (or any condition where lack of oxygen is a factor, like running out of it on Everest, ) is not a good idea. Mask over they nose, yeah, but down yer larynx ? "Noooooooo " exclaimed my mountain climbing Dr next door albeit from a social distance.

OK. accepting that a mild but highly contageous virus was out there and would lead to complications with underlying conditions , "Covid 19" was placed on the Death Certificates frightening the hell out of most of us. Now the scare factor is established, I know of many who are scared to go out again now that the restrictions are being rapidly eased.

So, what did Cummings and the rest know that we didn't ? Why let thousands walk into the UK with no Border control while most other countries slammed the door very tight ? C'mon, what did they know ? Why build big hospitals to cater for thousands of CV19 victim when you can't possibly hope to train the staff needed to treat ?

Why, if you mention some well known names on well known media sites are you..........."taken down" .......as Arnie would say ? What happened to freedom of speach ? Freedom of Human rights ?

Oh blimey, and if you mention ANY link of G5 to immune system re-modelling and , therefore, negative resistance to a bit of "bat-flu" you are really heading for trouble. Don't worry, taking up ski- training and got myself some skis from re-opened retail store. !

Personally, I should be dead. Went to Larnaca General for round-robin process in order to get NHS treatment of a mild eye problem. That was when the CV scare had just hit the streets. Waiting area still full of people coughing & sneezing all over me. DR, seeing me after one hour wait, covered in mask & gloves got me very irritated to the point of a BP reading going off the clock. Blood/sugar reading (pinprick test) frighteningly high (in anticipation of appalling management by the local NHS system, I hit a Jack & coke before leaving the house). Two days later, awaiting further referral, I got the sneezez, runny nose & eyes & with "underlying conditions" should have been admitted to A&E. Almost certainly, I would not have come out ! B o r t as we say in the North , ....still good !

Brave little fella is our Cummings. If we believe what we are told, looks like he risked his life, others in his family , others he may have come into contact with ( don't even think of wiping down his windshield)..for the love and concern of his 4 year-old. And this guy is a Government "advisor " ? Nah, they know something we don't. Wake up dear people.
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