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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 27th Apr 2020, 19:51
  #5741 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting that Donald’s comments on disinfectant attracted so much criticism yet when Indian government officials actually spray migrant workers with disinfectant, barely a word?
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 20:10
  #5742 (permalink)  
 
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ShotOne

Two big differences there.

1. Spraying is not the same as injecting.

2. India is not the USA.

You know this I’m sure but I just thought I should mention it.

BV
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 20:59
  #5743 (permalink)  
 
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Maatje Benassi, a US Army reservist and mother of two, has become the target of conspiracy theorists who falsely place her at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic, saying she brought the disease to China.

The false claims are spreading across YouTube every day, so far racking up hundreds of thousands of apparent views, and have been embraced by Chinese Communist Party media. Despite never having tested positive for the coronavirus or experienced symptoms, Benassi and her husband are now subjects of discussion on Chinese social media about the outbreak, including among accounts that are known drivers of large-scale coordinated activities by their followers.

The claims have turned their lives upside down. The couple say their home address has been posted online and that, before they shut down their accounts, their social media inboxes were overrun with messages from believers of the conspiracy.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/27/t...ory/index.html


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Old 28th Apr 2020, 06:38
  #5744 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
How the hell did Donald Trump get into you Brits problems?
He’s been a problem for the whole World since taking “office”.

The USA, until then regarded as a World leader in many important areas, must not be surprised when the non USA community regards the advancing calamity under Trump with alarm.

It isn’t just the USA that’s affected when Worldwide organisations and movements have their support withdrawn overnight, when the post of leader of the free World is occupied by a fake President, when the intelligence of millions is insulted by a pompous and dangerous fool.

Don't worry though, the role of the USA as World leader is fast fading and the hillbillies can party on in peace, while the intellectuals contemplate jumping ship.

Last edited by Twitter; 28th Apr 2020 at 09:00.
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 07:19
  #5745 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Twitter View Post
He’s been a problem for the whole World since taking “office”.
.......
Exactly. Like most Brits I paid no attention to American politics pre-Trump. I could not have told you if there was a Democrat or Republican in the White House.

But when the train wreck of the Trump presidency began to unfold we all sat up and watched in horror as the USA threw away its credibility and its role as the global pillar of sanity and democratic principles. It's as if a mask of seriousness, strategic thinking and capability suddenly fell away and we saw that a rabble of children had their hands on the controls. Of course we paid attention and of course it's a problem when suddenly no nation can trust any deal or agreement that involves the US.

Then along came COVID and the consequences of that madness was amplified 1,000 fold.

And maybe add, I have many American friends, I have spent significant time in the US and I work with Americans every day. It's really hard to align my view of Americans as charming, generous, thoughtful people with a strong sense of right and wrong with what we see unfolding on the political stage.

Last edited by double_barrel; 28th Apr 2020 at 07:37.
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 07:38
  #5746 (permalink)  
 
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Getting away from telling US folks how they should have voted, found this interesting
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...lCgmMhCWQRhtuU
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 08:25
  #5747 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dead_pan View Post
Daily infections are still frustratingly high. I know this against a backdrop of expanded testing but I'd hoped they'd be dropping day-on-day by now.
​​​​
In the UK 4,000+ reported yesterday and the day before. That puts the UK in 3rd place after the USA and Russia..grim news
You have to go back to April 7 to find less than 4,000 new cases being reported here. You can see why scientists want lockdown to continue but surely it should be showing more of a positive effect by now..
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 08:39
  #5748 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brewster Buffalo View Post
In the UK 4,000+ reported yesterday and the day before. That puts the UK in 3rd place after the USA and Russia..grim news
You have to go back to April 7 to find less than 4,000 new cases being reported here. You can see why scientists want lockdown to continue but surely it should be showing more of a positive effect by now..
The more you test, the more you'll find. UK testing has been so limited to the NHS and patients who rock up at hospital, that now more people are being tested it is to be expected that more cases, probably many very mild, will show up.
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 08:41
  #5749 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brewster Buffalo View Post
In the UK 4,000+ reported yesterday and the day before. That puts the UK in 3rd place after the USA and Russia..grim news
You have to go back to April 7 to find less than 4,000 new cases being reported here. You can see why scientists want lockdown to continue but surely it should be showing more of a positive effect by now..
I think there are a few factors involved. E.g.

First, the UK lockdown was never as strict as in some other countries - e.g. many businesses were permitted to stay open with people travelling to work on public transport.

But also, many people have taken a very flexible approach to the lockdown rules. I am constantly surprised by the number of educated people I talk to who are unaware that there are legal restrictions on what they can do. They think there are only "guidelines". They don't realise that some new laws were passed and that they are committing an offence when they ignore them. Although of course the regulations are not being strictly enforced by the Police.
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 08:43
  #5750 (permalink)  
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Massively increased testing of people who believe they are infected when they have previously been told to stay at home and not bother anyone unless they need hospital care was bound to result in many more cases reported. I think the fact that deaths in hospitals are slowly falling is a much more useful statistic. The Zoe app estimates that over most of the country less than 1% are showing symptoms and even in Inner London, most areas are only in the 1-2% range - much lower than it was.
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 09:02
  #5751 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by stagger View Post
I think there are a few factors involved. E.g.

First, the UK lockdown was never as strict as in some other countries - e.g. many businesses were permitted to stay open with people travelling to work on public transport.

But also, many people have taken a very flexible approach to the lockdown rules. I am constantly surprised by the number of educated people I talk to who are unaware that there are legal restrictions on what they can do. They think there are only "guidelines". They don't realise that some new laws were passed and that they are committing an offence when they ignore them. Although of course the regulations are not being strictly enforced by the Police.
The UK has always run on "guidelines" and "codes of practice" and it's a bit of a quantum leap when you're told that you cannot do something, or go somewhere. A large minority of people are more than happy to go along with the rules for as long as they don't stop them doing something they want to do, when suddenly the rules apparently don't apply to them. Moreover, because the UK's vehicle registration system is such that the vehicle isn't registered where the owner resides, but keeps it's plate from new the police can't easily intercept "out of area" plates and question the driver and passengers about their out of area activity; and because the UK refuses to have an ID card system which requires it to be carried on the person and produced on demand to the police, again, it makes the whole lockdown system, however mandatory the government makes it, quite difficult to effectively enforce.

As a case in point, I myself drive to my supermarket of choice for the weekly shop; really that is not working within the spirit of the rules, I should go to my nearest supermarket. Again, I hold my hands up and admit to travelling 10 miles to the farm shop, once per month to buy meat. I'm not putting myself at additional risk, and since I religiously follow the rules of the shop when I'm outside the car I don't consider myself any greater risk to others (probably less so actually) than if I went to Tesco. But that is a blatant breaking of the rules, but I am very unlikely to be stopped, and if I were I would humbly comply with instructions.

After this crisis has subsided some lessons need to be learned - we need to be more in step with most European countries on ID and enforcement.
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 09:04
  #5752 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by stagger View Post
I think there are a few factors involved. E.g.

First, the UK lockdown was never as strict as in some other countries - e.g. many businesses were permitted to stay open with people travelling to work on public transport.

But also, many people have taken a very flexible approach to the lockdown rules. I am constantly surprised by the number of educated people I talk to who are unaware that there are legal restrictions on what they can do. They think there are only "guidelines". They don't realise that some new laws were passed and that they are committing an offence when they ignore them. Although of course the regulations are not being strictly enforced by the Police.
It's the lock down you have, while not having a lock down. It still isn't locked down, even the borders.
We got cases before the UK and UK would have had lower numbers, if they acted.
AU first case 25 January
UK first case. 31 January
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 11:03
  #5753 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
The more you test, the more you'll find. UK testing has been so limited to the NHS and patients who rock up at hospital, that now more people are being tested it is to be expected that more cases, probably many very mild, will show up.
It doesn't matter how severe the cases are. The issue is that the virus is still circulating in the community. I reckon the R0 value is still 1 or higher.
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 11:14
  #5754 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
The UK has always run on "guidelines" and "codes of practice" and it's a bit of a quantum leap when you're told that you cannot do something, or go somewhere. A large minority of people are more than happy to go along with the rules for as long as they don't stop them doing something they want to do, when suddenly the rules apparently don't apply to them. Moreover, because the UK's vehicle registration system is such that the vehicle isn't registered where the owner resides, but keeps it's plate from new the police can't easily intercept "out of area" plates and question the driver and passengers about their out of area activity; and because the UK refuses to have an ID card system which requires it to be carried on the person and produced on demand to the police, again, it makes the whole lockdown system, however mandatory the government makes it, quite difficult to effectively enforce.
Hmm that doesn't then bode well for when restrictions are lifted, especially if people are required to wear face masks or install an app on their phone and comply with any instructions given if they are flagged as having been in contact with someone whose subsequently tested positive. A few months back a talking head on TV pointed out the US was in a poor position to fight the virus because many Americans viewed authority with disdain and often ignored government instructions and guidance (as has been demonstrated of late). While things are better in the UK, we do have more than our fair share of numpties who operate along similar lines, claiming any restrictions on their lives to be an abuse of their basic human rights or some such bollox.
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 11:27
  #5755 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dead_pan View Post
Hmm that doesn't then bode well for when restrictions are lifted, especially if people are required to wear face masks or install an app on their phone and comply with any instructions given if they are flagged as having been in contact with someone whose subsequently tested positive. A few months back a talking head on TV pointed out the US was in a poor position to fight the virus because many Americans viewed authority with disdain and often ignored government instructions and guidance (as has been demonstrated of late). While things are better in the UK, we do have more than our fair share of numpties who operate along similar lines, claiming any restrictions on their lives to be an abuse of their basic human rights or some such bollox.
It's worse than that, at least Americans are up front in their opposition to doing as they're instructed. In the UK we're more inclined to say one thing, generally what we think people want to hear us say, then go off and do the opposite because we don't really want to comply.

As an example, people seldom admit to using their phone whilst driving, or driving whilst under the influence, but clearly there's a body, quite a large body in the case of the former, that clearly does. Social research tells us that.
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 11:34
  #5756 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
As a case in point, I myself drive to my supermarket of choice for the weekly shop; really that is not working within the spirit of the rules, I should go to my nearest supermarket. Again, I hold my hands up and admit to travelling 10 miles to the farm shop, once per month to buy meat. I'm not putting myself at additional risk, and since I religiously follow the rules of the shop when I'm outside the car I don't consider myself any greater risk to others (probably less so actually) than if I went to Tesco. But that is a blatant breaking of the rules, but I am very unlikely to be stopped, and if I were I would humbly comply with instructions.
I'm not sure that is blatantly breaking the regulations - you are going purchase food at somewhere that's not that far away.

I was referring more to people who really are blatantly ignoring the regulations - educated people who normally consider themselves to be law abiding. E.g. going to visit family members, visiting people to give gifts, meeting to exercise together in the park. This sort of stuff. It's all probably contributing to our "lockdown" not being as effective as you might expect.


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Old 28th Apr 2020, 11:47
  #5757 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by stagger View Post
I'm not sure that is blatantly breaking the regulations - you are going purchase food at somewhere that's not that far away.

I was referring more to people who really are blatantly ignoring the regulations - educated people who normally consider themselves to be law abiding. E.g. going to visit family members, visiting people to give gifts, meeting to exercise together in the park. This sort of stuff. It's all probably contributing to our "lockdown" not being as effective as you might expect.
I know for a fact that some locals are flouting the SI. Even more disappointingly, one particular couple are both NHS workers. He lives some distance away on the other side of the county and drives over to ‘visit’ on a regular basis. She is quite open about it and as they both work in the business, must be well aware of the risks.

Having said that, and even if people aren’t complying completely, the lockdown seems to be having some positive effect on figures, regardless. Either that or the virus is going through the same particular trend anyway, which seems to be indicated by graphs from various countries operating different firms of control.


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Old 28th Apr 2020, 12:51
  #5758 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dead_pan View Post
It doesn't matter how severe the cases are. The issue is that the virus is still circulating in the community. I reckon the R0 value is still 1 or higher.
I think there will be a second wave when lockdown eases.Can't see how we will avoid it..
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 12:59
  #5759 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brewster Buffalo View Post
I think there will be a second wave when lockdown eases.Can't see how we will avoid it..
I suspect that, not only will we see a second wave, but also a third, fourth, fifth etc, as we learn to just live with this disease for the foreseeable future. I can't see how it's ever going to just go away, at least not in the next few years, as even if a vaccine is developed, proved to be effective, and put into production rapidly, it seems probable that it may not confer long-term immunity, plus it will take time for a large enough number of the population to be vaccinated, and acquire immunity, and until we have most people immune, even if for a short time, we'll all need to do some things differently in order to help reduce the transmission risk.

The good news is that the Oxford team from the Jenner Institute seem to be making very good progress with their vaccine, they may well be the frontrunner in this race at the moment: https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/about
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 13:01
  #5760 (permalink)  
 
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"President Donald Trump has said he "can't imagine why" US hotline calls about disinfectant have risen after he suggested injecting the substance to treat coronavirus.

The governors of Michigan and Maryland on Sunday blamed the president for the spike in such calls. Following heavy criticism from medical professionals, Mr Trump said his remarks were made sarcastically.

During Monday's Covid-19 news conference, a reporter noted that the state of Maryland's emergency hotline had received hundreds of calls in recent days seeking guidance about Mr Trump's comments."I can't imagine why," the president said, moving quickly on. "I can't imagine that."When asked whether he took responsibility at all for the increase in calls, Mr Trump replied: "No, I don't."" bbc

The buck does not stop there.

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