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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 15th Mar 2020, 08:38
  #2081 (permalink)  
 
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Smart Ass

Or arse - Well you certainly have one for a president SAS - he is now trying to buy the personnel and product of a scientific company in TŁbingen, who are working on a vaccine!
Offering huge sums of money exclusively for use in the USA - you know - our great country...
This comes a week after he was pooh poohing the whole threat.
I wonder what Von der Leyen, who was trying to unify EU resources thinks about that little ďsmartĒ ruse?
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 09:04
  #2082 (permalink)  
 
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I don't envy the doctors in all this. It seems it will get to the point where life and death decisions have to be made as to access to intensive care. If, say, you were a 66 year old man, retired and therefore economically inactive, a life long smoker with no dependants lying on a bed next to a fit 35 year old employed diabetic with 3 young children, what would your decision be? At times like this I am glad I am a 58 year old fitness fanatic with a young wife and 6 children at home.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 09:13
  #2083 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmm! The Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, says measures to have the over 70s isolated are due in the next few weeks. I have already been wondering whether they will take me to a Magistrates Court or will it be the full Crown Court?
The term "it is only for your own good", or in Hancock's words "a very big ask of the elderly and vulnerable, but it is for their own protection" sounds ominous to me.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 09:16
  #2084 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Canary Boy View Post
You do your credibility no favours by submitting this unreasoned drivel. Shame on you. 😢😓
You might like to apologise for your little outburst if you have it within you..

This morning on the Sky News Sophy Ridge show, the UK Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, informed that "part of the plan" would involve over 70s being quarantined for up to 4 months.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 09:31
  #2085 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Well I've logged in a complaint to the BBC ( waste of their woke hand wringing time) and direct to Boris. Are the BBC on a self- destruct mission?
I donít quite see why you object so strongly. I think the focus on the numbers of deaths when the numbers are indeed low is not helpful: It would be more helpful to focus on the ratio of new infections to existing cases. But as the # of deaths went from 11 to 21 in 24 hours, the report is factually correct.

This coming at the UK like a train: alarming people through sensationalized news is not responsible. But talking it down is irresponsible...

What was silly earlier in the day, was reporting live that there have been over 12,000 deaths in Italy, when the number was 1200. Details, details...
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 09:34
  #2086 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
People are baffled at why football matches involving Ipswich Town have been called off. The players can't pass anything to each other and the goalkeeper can't catch anything!
It is the peripheral activities were infection will happen, not out on the field. Changing rooms, traveling together, team briefings, going to the pub etc.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 09:40
  #2087 (permalink)  
 
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All visitors to Australia will have to self-isolate for 14 days from midnight Sunday,
Well, that's next week's trip off the books then - now I have to haggle with the travel insurance people.

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Old 15th Mar 2020, 09:42
  #2088 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Well I've logged in a complaint to the BBC ( waste of their woke hand wringing time) and direct to Boris. Are the BBC on a self- destruct mission?
Have you nothing better to do at the moment than look for ways to swipe at the BBC?
The Covid situation is a national emergency. It's moving so fast that no-one knows accurate figures. Even the government doesn't know exactly how many people are sick or dead.
You have complained to the BBC and the prime minister about a numerical error on a website? Get real!
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 09:48
  #2089 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Hmmm! The Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, says measures to have the over 70s isolated are due in the next few weeks. I have already been wondering whether they will take me to a Magistrates Court or will it be the full Crown Court?
The term "it is only for your own good", or in Hancock's words "a very big ask of the elderly and vulnerable, but it is for their own protection" sounds ominous to me.
The key thing here is about looking after society as a whole, not just a part of it. The mantra is really "for the many, not the few", as by reducing the greater demand that older people present to our health care services, there will be more capacity available for society as a whole. It's very much socialism in action, with some accepting some inconvenience in order to help ensure there is sufficient care available for all.

By the same token, it seems that private healthcare is being effectively nationalised for a time, in order to boost the availability of heath care facilities for all. If actions like these were taken under normal circumstances we could be forgiven for thinking we had a socialist government.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 09:54
  #2090 (permalink)  
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This is primarily for UK readers, but clearly this thread has a global reach.

The utterly vile suggestion a "cull " of the elderly from the effects of the virus could benefit the economy........from a Daily Telegraph journalist

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/11/teleg...nomy-12383907/
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 10:02
  #2091 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
This is primarily for UK readers, but clearly this thread has a global reach.

The utterly vile suggestion a "cull " of the elderly from the effects of the virus could benefit the economy........from a Daily Telegraph journalist

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/11/teleg...nomy-12383907/
Any prospect of someone publishing the relevant excerpt from the Telegraph itself? Second- hand screenshots from social media published in another paper is less convincing than the source.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 10:06
  #2092 (permalink)  
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Splitting hairs?

PM says stay at home for at least 7 days. Media says for a week.

Hancock says stay AT home. Marr says stay IN home.

Semantics maybe but from Hancock 's words I can go outside, I think I can even go for a walk in the country side at home. In Marr's phrase it implies indoors and I can see that as valid if you live in flats, appartments, HOMO, etc.

Then of course it would be impossible to police. We don't carry ID cards, we don't have police.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 10:13
  #2093 (permalink)  
 
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The impossibility of policing this occurred to me earlier. I imagined being asked for proof of my DoB when going into shops. Seemed strangely reminiscent of going into pubs over 50 years ago . . .

On a more serious note, there does need to be a great deal more clarity on how some of these restrictions will be applied, why they are being applied (for the common good, I'd like to believe) and what is being done to provide adequate support, both practical and social, in order to make them effective. There also needs to be a great deal more done to raise the awareness of everyone about how to make social distancing and other essential hygiene measures effective. At the moment there seems to be a preponderance of alarmist headlines and a distinct lack of sensible practical detail.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 10:13
  #2094 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
Any prospect of someone publishing the relevant excerpt from the Telegraph itself? Second- hand screenshots from social media published in another paper is less convincing than the source.
There is a screenshot in the Metro article. FWIW (and it pains me to defend anyone connected to the Borisgraph) but he didnít say the elderly should be culled. He stated that from a purely economic standpoint the virus culling the elderly would be helpful. As this would reduce the proportion of the population for whom late age social care would be required I would have thought it was obvious, albeit clumsily put. Of course there are 101 non economic reasons why it would be disastrous.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 10:19
  #2095 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
Any prospect of someone publishing the relevant excerpt from the Telegraph itself? Second- hand screenshots from social media published in another paper is less convincing than the source.
Apologies to Curious Pax here as he preceded this post.

The article in the Metro does actually contain a quote taken from the Telegraph . He does, when questioned, admit the use of the word "culling " was possibly not the best choice but stands by the rest of his comments. .....
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 10:24
  #2096 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
I donít quite see why you object so strongly. I think the focus on the numbers of deaths when the numbers are indeed low is not helpful: It would be more helpful to focus on the ratio of new infections to existing cases. But as the # of deaths went from 11 to 21 in 24 hours, the report is factually correct.

This coming at the UK like a train: alarming people through sensationalized news is not responsible. But talking it down is irresponsible...

What was silly earlier in the day, was reporting live that there have been over 12,000 deaths in Italy, when the number was 1200. Details, details...
Well what's wrong with using headlines to turn a crisis into a panic? Headline in today's Sunday Times is ' Death toll leaps and forces Johnson to act'. This ' after the death toll doubled in flour hours'.
It doubled to 21.
21.
You judge.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 10:27
  #2097 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post
There is a screenshot in the Metro article. FWIW (and it pains me to defend anyone connected to the Borisgraph) but he didnít say the elderly should be culled. He stated that from a purely economic standpoint the virus culling the elderly would be helpful. As this would reduce the proportion of the population for whom late age social care would be required I would have thought it was obvious, albeit clumsily put. Of course there are 101 non economic reasons why it would be disastrous.
I am confused altogether now. What would be the benefit of a lot of people dying be, old or young? Short term it would be a disaster; medium-term a disaster; long-term a disaster. Is he truly as thick as he appears anti-social?
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 10:31
  #2098 (permalink)  
 
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The key thing here is about looking after society as a whole, not just a part of it. The mantra is really "for the many, not the few", as by reducing the greater demand that older people present to our health care services, there will be more capacity available for society as a whole. It's very much socialism in action, with some accepting some inconvenience in order to help ensure there is sufficient care available for all.
I don't think I could disagree with you more. "For the many, not the few" is indeed a socialist mantra, although it should be adopted by all shades of politics. However, shouldn't the capacity needed in the health care system be provided, via our takes, in the first place? Or are you saying lock 'em up! It is for the greater good?
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 10:32
  #2099 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Well what's wrong with using headlines to turn a crisis into a panic? Headline in today's Sunday Times is ' Death toll leaps and forces Johnson to act'. This ' after the death toll doubled in flour hours'.
It doubled to 21.
21.
You judge.
I have and replied in detail to your post on the numbers and nuance. What point are you now making?

Frankly I wouldn't sully my bum with pretty much any of the UK print media (or it's online equivalent). I do agree that the BBC should calm down a bit, but the reporting is factually correct. Well, the bit you referred to was; the 12,000 deaths wasn't...
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 10:33
  #2100 (permalink)  
 
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I think that we are still getting ourselves a little worked up. There will be a significant spike in the deaths of the elderly, and or people with underlying health issues. People used to die of many things which they no longer do, and others who would have died either at birth or in early childhood, have survived due to advancements in medical treatment. Unfortunately sometimes this survival comes at the reduced robustness of the said body, and events like this put these people in the situation we are in today. The issue is there are not enough intensive care beds in any country to cover the sheer numbers of people who fall into these categories', no matter what you do. The economic impact potentially is the more important one, as it is important for individuals and companies to carry on doing what they do in order to finance the whole thing, be it through taxation or personnel expenditure. If we suddenly stop doing everything as some have suggested, you will end up with ORACS vision of civil unrest to a greater or lesser degree. Having witnessed the goings on in a UK supermarket in Yorkshire on Friday evening I do not think the keep calm and carry on message is getting through, or has some how being lost in translation. Incidentally from an observation it appeared to be the wealthier member of society who were stocking up due to them presumably having access to more finance. The small number of items I wanted that were out of stock, I obtained from another supermarket in a less affluent area, but the same products none the less.
Anyway as far as our business is concerned we carry on as normal, though obviously trips to certain sites (we operate world wide) have, or are being curtailed due to this, and we have instigated remote working where possible (though this is not abnormal for us, as it is part of what we do). I go back to Munich on Tuesday and will be shuttling around Europe as normal, though I was supposed to be in Houston this week but the "Donald" put paid to that. Quite pleased about that as not nice clients, and was about to tell them that their issue on the project is some what terminal ie start again time, rather than being able to "bodge it" their preferred option.
Incidentally if they do lock down the over 70,s for 3 months some of these threads are going to get mighty long !!!

Kind regards
Mr Mac
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