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The shocking state of PPRuNe

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The shocking state of PPRuNe

Old 4th Jan 2020, 09:31
  #1 (permalink)  
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The shocking state of PPRuNe

From a recent Boeing thread, locked after 4 posts:

Originally Posted by Senior Pilot View Post
Further to PilotDAR’s comments, each and every MAX related R&N thread to date has degraded into a Hamsterwheel with no new discussions introduced. Until something new appears you’re welcome to join the Hamsterwheel thread in JetBlast, Boeing CEO resigns or follow the links from this post, B737 Max threads

If you feel some weird necessity to post here in R&N further criticising this moderation then be prepared to have a lengthy timeout
​​​​​
I'm not interested in reading the Pravda. After 15 years of reading PPRuNe, time to say goodbye to the bully boys calling themselves "moderators". Wonder how long this thread will last?

Adios


Thread moved from R&N to JetBlast

Senior Pilot

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 5th Jan 2020 at 19:23. Reason: Reinstate deleted quote
Permafrost_ATPL is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2020, 09:54
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Mustn’t criticise Boeing or the politburo (mods) bad lad.
Sandwiches and flask packed for a spell in the gulag!
David
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 10:08
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Originally Posted by Permafrost_ATPL View Post
From a recent Boeing thread, locked after 4 posts:



I'm not interested in reading the Pravda. After 15 years of reading PPRuNe, time to say goodbye to the bully boys calling themselves "moderators". Wonder how long this thread will last?

Adios
Well said that man. By all means ban people for offensive posts but this is a discussion forum. Don't threaten to ban people who just want to discuss.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 11:40
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Well, when I scroll down my opening ‘Trending’ page, I find three anti - Boeing threads happily alive and gathering comments (‘MAX’s Return Delayed..., ‘Boeing Stays Firmly on Course to the Bottom’ and something about Qatar supposedly refusing to accept some new Boeing aircraft. That’s just the first page.

Perhaps the mods conclude that there is already sufficient threads to satisfy those who wish to revel in this particular social media pile-on...
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 11:59
  #5 (permalink)  
 
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This site is desperately over-moderated, but it has always been this way...

One observation: it is utterly unclear what the moderators want. As there is no consistency in which posts are deleted and which are not, it is very difficult to see what the aim is.
medod is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2020, 12:17
  #6 (permalink)  
 
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Always surprised to see a lot of threads disappear, especially in the training section...
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 13:08
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Originally Posted by JustinHeywood View Post
Well, when I scroll down my opening ‘Trending’ page, I find three anti - Boeing threads happily alive and gathering comments (‘MAX’s Return Delayed..., ‘Boeing Stays Firmly on Course to the Bottom’ and something about Qatar supposedly refusing to accept some new Boeing aircraft. That’s just the first page.
When I do that, I find that only the thread regarding the QR 787 delivery mix-up is still open. Must be something about my browser settings.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 13:39
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In praise of moderation.

Pprune has reached a difficult phase in its evolution; culminating with disturbing trends in social behaviour, and shocking awareness of the background to recent accidents.

PPRuNe is a professional forum, with good following, well trusted discussions, and used as a valued source of technical and operational advice.
Recent events challenge this image. The quality of some, many, contributions fall short of the professional standards required in aviation. Most indicators suggest than many of the unhelpful or ill considered posts are not of our profession, not worthy of this forum. They could be culled (should be in some views), yet in the spirit of free speech and that the industry can learn from external input - the public are our paymasters, some poor quality input might be tolerated. Use this as a reminder for the professionals to up their standards so that the difference between them and us is clearer.
The moderators face a difficult task, judging, valuing a range of inputs as to relevance, positive contribution, and progression, often posted by those who exhibit the worst aspects of social media and self satisfaction.

The professional views must win the day; we can help achieve this by maintaining our professional behaviour, wary of provocation, trolls, illogical thought, and downright appalling behaviour.
Let’s up our own game before blaming others; help ease the moderating tasks by setting a higher professional standard to be measured against.

PPRuNe is the flight deck, cabin, hanger, training school, … …, all of those aspects of the front line of aviation, placed in public view, for their judgement. Don’t let our standards be dragged down by the apparent lowering standards more associated with social media in the modern world.
alf5071h is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2020, 13:50
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There appear to be too many non professionals here commenting. Could the monitors not vet everyone and allow a current professional pilot area, a retiree area and spotters area?
Those of us who currently fly can comment and the others observe.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 13:56
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I noticed the QF S/O topic removed too. Whats controversial about that?
cessnapete is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2020, 14:06
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This place is a pure joke these days. Let’s hope another forum rises from the ashes...
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 14:17
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Ah, moderating as such was equally there many years ago - I fell foul of PPRuNe Pop years back for a very seemingly innocuous question of my peers (early stages of a commercial career back then, during volcanic ash crisis!). The cantankerous so-and-so removed my post and as I recall, sent me the following after enquiring as to why;

Let me tell you right off. I do not normally answer PM's such as yours.

However, I assume you are actually a FO with a minimum of a CPL but maybe an ATPL. In either case you should be aware of all VFR and IFR rules and the use of Airspace. That being the case you can easily answer your own questions.

As for questioning your peers it is absurd if you are capable of flight in all conditions - except those that are currently banned by NATS. You can find all the info you want without the help of PPRuNe. That is not what it is for.

Use your experience and your knowledge to find out.

Either that or you are NOT the holder of a professional licence.

PPP



A thoroughly obnoxious man he was, I replied again subsequent to the above - he never did respond.
First.officer is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2020, 15:00
  #13 (permalink)  
 
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"A thoroughly obnoxious man he was"

Well, First.Officer, I think many will disagree with you, myself included. A kind and helpful moderator in my experience with a lot of aviation experience and much missed. I knew the man for a long time, drank and joked with him at the bashes and knew him as someone who always worked hard to help up and coming aviation folk, especially through the PP Fund. There are some pilots still here that he helped on the way. In my experience he always tolerated fools gladly. I would need to see your original question to see why this failed.
42go is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2020, 15:01
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Originally Posted by alf5071h View Post
Pprune has reached a difficult phase in its evolution; culminating with disturbing trends in social behaviour, and shocking awareness of the background to recent accidents.

PPRuNe is a professional forum, with good following, well trusted discussions, and used as a valued source of technical and operational advice.
Recent events challenge this image. The quality of some, many, contributions fall short of the professional standards required in aviation. Most indicators suggest than many of the unhelpful or ill considered posts are not of our profession, not worthy of this forum. They could be culled (should be in some views), yet in the spirit of free speech and that the industry can learn from external input - the public are our paymasters, some poor quality input might be tolerated. Use this as a reminder for the professionals to up their standards so that the difference between them and us is clearer.
The moderators face a difficult task, judging, valuing a range of inputs as to relevance, positive contribution, and progression, often posted by those who exhibit the worst aspects of social media and self satisfaction.

The professional views must win the day; we can help achieve this by maintaining our professional behaviour, wary of provocation, trolls, illogical thought, and downright appalling behaviour.
Let’s up our own game before blaming others; help ease the moderating tasks by setting a higher professional standard to be measured against.

PPRuNe is the flight deck, cabin, hanger, training school, … …, all of those aspects of the front line of aviation, placed in public view, for their judgement. Don’t let our standards be dragged down by the apparent lowering standards more associated with social media in the modern world.
as SLF, I respect that professional demeanour by never even pretending to intervene in a technical discussion. I respect professional boundaries as much as I expect mine to be respected.

However, I think that non-pilots can have a valid input to some discussions - albeit if only within the specific and constrained boundaries of the field of their expertise. Pots must be aware, of course, of the multiple disciplines which combine to manufacture a viable aircraft, give it power, provide systems and automation and navigational aids.

We can sometimes justifiably add value to a thread.
Nialler is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2020, 15:36
  #15 (permalink)  
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After 15 years of reading PPRuNe, time to say goodbye to the bully boys calling themselves "moderators".
I nearly deleted this whole thread just now, and expect that before long one of the moderators will. In the mean time, I'll play a little before you go....

The moderators are all volunteers, and seek to promote discussion within PPRuNe, in accordance with the policies for posting. First, and foremost, "hotel lobby rules", would you say that out loud in a busy hotel lobby, where anyone could be listening? Next, for me, would I want to read the post out loud to my children? If I see a "no" on the horizon for either question relative to a post, or the majority of a thread, it may be doomed. There after, does the post actually contribute to the discussion in any useful way? Does the post malign a person or business, such that there could be claims of libel? If in doubt, we mods will sometimes consult in the background, to be as fair as possible.

PPRuNe is a private website, and therefore we all must follow the rules of the owner - yes, even I, as a moderator, have had posts deleted by other moderators - it happens, and in hind sight, I saw the point. posting here is not a "right", though within the rule, and subject o moderation, posts are welcomed.

Software changes beyond moderator control have reduced the means by which we can block posters who are in apparent violation. It is what it is, and we mods work with the tools given to us. We mods simply do not have time to PM everyone whose post we might delete, nor do we want to be drawn in to a discussion about our decision. Generally, challenges to moderation are not tolerated at all, which is why this thread will not last long.

Ultimately, if I heard people in my waiting room vigorously expressing negative views, with disregard to the viewpoints of other people, I would likely ask them to refrain, or leave my waiting room - does that sound reasonable.

And please don't quote PM's in public.

Thank you for your consideration...

Pilot DAR
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 15:47
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Unhappy

Well, 42go - maybe i caught him on a bad day - cannot post what i put at the time, as it was deleted by PPRuNe PoP at the time, and despite a search I cannot find any evidence of my original post. As i recall it was merely about how some operators back then were getting around the temporary restrictions at the time, and the response was totally OTT (IMHO). Either way, because of this reaction on his part, I had no respect for him going forward regardless - sad, as he may have been otherwise a decent chap as your post and others would suggest.
First.officer is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2020, 15:48
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Originally Posted by srjumbo747 View Post
There appear to be too many non professionals here commenting. Could the monitors not vet everyone and allow a current professional pilot area, a retiree area and spotters area?
Those of us who currently fly can comment and the others observe.
I'll point out that if you did that then much of the interesting and pertinent information provided regarding the MCAS design approach, cert requirements etc., would not have appeared here, since the sources included people who were professional but NOT PILOTS.

If pilots are going to have their noses put out of joint by "Boeing's engineers not sharing information 'we need to know'" then don't at the same time set up some kind of pilot-only ivory tower because the rest of us (*) are inferior beings.

* yes, I'm not a pilot. As in my 'real' professional life, I try not to tell the pilots "how to fly", but that doesn't ivalidate what I "do know".

PS the people complaining about over-moderation here have clearly not explored much of the internet - it's pretty proportionate here IMHO.

Last edited by Mad (Flt) Scientist; 4th Jan 2020 at 15:49. Reason: typo
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 15:56
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First, and foremost, "hotel lobby rules", would you say that out loud in a busy hotel lobby, where anyone could be listening?
How about, 'If you like Japanese schoolgirls in short skirts - I do'?

I don't think normal people would say that in a hotel lobby but apparently, another moderator thinks it is perfectly acceptable for someone to start a thread with those words and banned me for having the temerity to suggest otherwise when I critisised it.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 16:12
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I am a bit surprised that the discussion always develops a professional pilot vs. non-professional pilot/non-pilot spin, and I can only attribute this to some pilots here having big egos, wanting a closed society and the alleged distinction that comes with being a member of it.

I have seen input from professional pilots in a magnitude of dumbness that was just as big as the smartness of some non-pilot comments here.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 16:25
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Saw this thread and how long it has lasted. PPRuNe just went up several notches in my estimation...........................
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