Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Old 14th Jan 2021, 11:07
  #5981 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
I have no feelings for the lady either way.

Do we honestly believe that, her naive comment aside, her and her entire department had no awareness of the deal and basically ignored it go attend a nativity?

Let’s be honest as well, if the whole thing could have been read and inwardly digested in the time it takes for a bunch of kids to shamble their way through the story of the birth of J of N then maybe she could have given it the once over in the bath that night?!

Even you must admit that the mighty Guardian does go out of its way no find ‘evil Tory’ stories?

Yet they would be the first to laud the heroic working Mum who makes sure she makes it to the kids play despite her mammoth work load and home responsibilities.

I have no idea whether she is up to the job (most politicians probably aren’t really capable of the roles they fill) but I don’t think we should get our knickers in a twist about this particular story.

BV
BV,

There's no need for the Guardian, as you put it, to go "out of its way " to source stories that, heaven forbid, show the (non) Tory Gov't in a bad light.....said Gov't and Ministers provide a constant supply with little or no effort on their part.

I'm sure there were / are those in her Dept who read the document, but, the salient point is, she publicly admitted to not doing so, citing the reason she, in effect, put herself before her Ministerial duties......and that is not acceptable .
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 11:11
  #5982 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,635
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
BV,

There's no need for the Guardian, as you put it, to go "out of its way " to source stories that, heaven forbid, show the (non) Tory Gov't in a bad light.....said Gov't and Ministers provide a constant supply with little or no effort on their part.

I'm sure there were / are those in her Dept who read the document, but, the salient point is, she publicly admitted to not doing so, citing the reason she, in effect, put herself before her Ministerial duties......and that is not acceptable .
Who's interpretation of Ministerial duties is that? Her job will have done well beore this, and a doubt she was in the final decision making process as to whether the deal was agreed or not.
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 11:30
  #5983 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,862
KnC

I think you have mistakenly branded me as a ‘dyed in the wool’ Tory supporter.

I may be Conservative (with a small c) with my outlook but I have never actually voted for them in an election.

I have no real allegiance to any party and certainly don’t feel the need to defend the Tory party and it’s members but I recognise a crap story when I see it.

BV
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 11:42
  #5984 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Who's interpretation of Ministerial duties is that? Her job will have done well beore this, and a doubt she was in the final decision making process as to whether the deal was agreed or not.
Given her constituency is in the heart of England, many of her constituents probably share your view........it's a shame the SNP didn't however, and I'm sure if you canvassed opinion amongst the fishing sector, you would be shocked to learn they would probably be even more forthright as to her indifference.

Bemusing to read the support being offered, yet at the same time, here on JB, so many contributors decrying the feckless benefit scroungers for their, supposed, largesse in squandering their pittance with the condemnation that "actions have consequences ! "
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 13:13
  #5985 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 73
Posts: 806
Originally Posted by eal401 View Post
Actually they have - Rashford himself tweeted a photo of a package using the term "3 days of food for 1 family" - which is as misleading as anything from a Government source. But, as we have established with tax avoidance, this is another "Tory does it = bad; Local hero does it = wind yer neck in" Utter hypocrisy….

I would not profess to support the Government in everything they have done, and I did not vote them in at the last election. But people forget, if this Government was as Tory as people think, the lockdowns would have been as follows: "We're locking down. If you can't work from home and are going to lose your job, here's the link for you https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit See you on the flip side."
Obviously, my specs are getting old, I can not see anywhere that Rashford has said "main meals". Point it out please. Possibly, it could be argued that Rashford should have expanded on the "3 days of food" a little but nowhere does he say, or even imply, that this represents 3 main meals. Incidentally, for those that don't know, the food to which he is referring is not that shown in the photo from Roadside Mum.
As for tax avoidance, this is the second time you have mentioned this in connection with Rashford. I think it is time you provided the links to show this. If only to cover your own backside should Rashford's solicitors happen to read these pages.

You may be right about the Tories being "not as Tory as people think". And there is a very good reason for that; the Tories got their majority in the last election by going after Labour held seats and they know that, should they revert to Thatcher style politics, those seats will be gone in the next election. They have to tread very carefully to avoid alienating that section of the electorate.

Finally, yet another heart breaking story related to this; the CEO of Compass (parent company of Chartwell) has had his income slashed to £1.2M this year as a consequence of the Covid problem. Slashed to £1.2M from last year's £4.7M! Now there's a hard luck story if ever there was one! Oh, and the chairman of Compass, Paul Walsh, was a member of David Cameron's business advisory group.
KelvinD is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 14:54
  #5986 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,911
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Note that the scheme was implemented at the behest and agreement with Rashford’s Task Force. So which one is supposed to be cancelled? Some will doubtless say be should be provided, but that’s not the way it works and will benefit some over others.

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...s-at-half-term

Schools in England told not to provide free school meals at half-term

Headteachers in England have been told not to provide either free school meal vouchers or food parcels for disadantaged children over the half-term holiday next month, it has emerged.

With the dust barely settled following a furious row this week over substandard food parcels, the government appeared to be heading into yet another damaging dispute over children going hungry during the holidays.

Fresh guidance from the Department for Education published this week states: Schools do not need to provide lunch parcels or vouchers during the February half-term.” Instead, it says there is already wider government support available to support families and children outside of term-time through the Covid winter grant scheme.

The government set up the £170m winter package last November, following an earlier intervention by the footballer and anti-poverty campaigner Marcus Rashford, who has already forced the government into a series of U-turns over free school meals........

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...n-and-families

....Building on the significant support given to the most vulnerable during the pandemic, a new £170m Covid Winter Grant Scheme will be run by councils in England.

The funding will be ring-fenced, with at least 80% earmarked to support with food and bills, and will cover the period to the end of March 2021. Local Authorities will receive the funding at the beginning of December 2020.

It will allow councils to directly help the hardest-hit families and individuals, as well as provide food for children who need it over the holidays. Local councils understand which groups need support, and are best placed to ensure appropriate holiday support is provided – which is why they will distribute the funds, rather than schools, who will continue providing meals for disadvantaged children during term-time......
ORAC is online now  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 15:39
  #5987 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,635
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Given her constituency is in the heart of England, many of her constituents probably share your view........it's a shame the SNP didn't however, and I'm sure if you canvassed opinion amongst the fishing sector, you would be shocked to learn they would probably be even more forthright as to her indifference.
Do you really believe that every Minister whose department was impacted by the agreement sat down and read it on 24 December? How exactly do you think govt. works? Prentis isn't in the cabinet, and isn't even the most senior minister in Defra. The work had already been done.
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 15:43
  #5988 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,635
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Note that the scheme was implemented at the behest and agreement with Rashford’s Task Force. So which one is supposed to be cancelled? Some will doubtless say be should be provided, but that’s not the way it works and will benefit some over others.

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...s-at-half-term

Schools in England told not to provide free school meals at half-term

Headteachers in England have been told not to provide either free school meal vouchers or food parcels for disadantaged children over the half-term holiday next month, it has emerged.

With the dust barely settled following a furious row this week over substandard food parcels, the government appeared to be heading into yet another damaging dispute over children going hungry during the holidays.

Fresh guidance from the Department for Education published this week states: Schools do not need to provide lunch parcels or vouchers during the February half-term.” Instead, it says there is already wider government support available to support families and children outside of term-time through the Covid winter grant scheme.

The government set up the £170m winter package last November, following an earlier intervention by the footballer and anti-poverty campaigner Marcus Rashford, who has already forced the government into a series of U-turns over free school meals........

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...n-and-families

....Building on the significant support given to the most vulnerable during the pandemic, a new £170m Covid Winter Grant Scheme will be run by councils in England.

The funding will be ring-fenced, with at least 80% earmarked to support with food and bills, and will cover the period to the end of March 2021. Local Authorities will receive the funding at the beginning of December 2020.

It will allow councils to directly help the hardest-hit families and individuals, as well as provide food for children who need it over the holidays. Local councils understand which groups need support, and are best placed to ensure appropriate holiday support is provided – which is why they will distribute the funds, rather than schools, who will continue providing meals for disadvantaged children during term-time......
Maybe just maybe the government should have a consistent, coherent policy towards child poverty and its impact on children and their schools and stop dicking around. Then footballers could get back to concentrating on what they are good at.
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 16:24
  #5989 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: England
Posts: 644
KelvinD Ref your post 5965.

You might wish to do an internet search before commenting of the nutrition vaue of cucumber.

Comments like yours might be why only about 1.6% of children's packed lunches are deemed to be nutritious.

keith williams is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 17:55
  #5990 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Do you really believe that every Minister whose department was impacted by the agreement sat down and read it on 24 December? How exactly do you think govt. works? Prentis isn't in the cabinet, and isn't even the most senior minister in Defra. The work had already been done.
Her position in the Gov't is irrelevant. What is relevant is that she freely admitted, in public , she was "too busy " to read the document, but found time to participate in a nativity trail. Now with that sort of blase indifference, it begs the question as to what other matters she may have conveniently ignored or decided personal matters should take priority over.

Her background would suggest she's immune to criticism and action being taken against her anyway.

As for the Gov't and help for those who most need it, forget it. This "caring " Gov't has the very blunt instrument of the DWP to ensure life is made as difficult as possible for people in need, whilst happily filling the balance sheets of those few who are opportunist profiteers. Rashford is a nightmare for them, having already made Boris have at least four "U" turns on policies in this respect so I would say his talents extend well beyond football.

Finally, some bad news for those who feel the Guardian was terribly vindictive towards Tory MP's......

Fishing minister was 'busy' with nativity play when fisheries Brexit deal landed over Christmas (telegraph.co.uk)
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 18:26
  #5991 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 170
One wonders if she would have understood it even if she had read it and if she had, what if anything she could have done about it

WB627 is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 19:30
  #5992 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 73
Posts: 806
Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
KelvinD Ref your post 5965.

You might wish to do an internet search before commenting of the nutrition vaue of cucumber.

Comments like yours might be why only about 1.6% of children's packed lunches are deemed to be nutritious.
Per your recommendation, I did a search as advised. The first link I came to said this "Cucumbers are naturally high in water so their relative concentration of nutrients is low."
My point was not about the nutritional value though (I don't believe I even mentioned that); what about the government's much vaunted "5 a day" campaign? Where does a single cucumber fit into that?
It is not my comments that ensure only 1.6% of children's packed lunches are nutritious; it is the "experts" who try to kid us that the spread shown in the photo comes anywhere near to providing nutrition.
KelvinD is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 19:31
  #5993 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,635
One wonders if she would have understood it even if she had read it
Yes

if she had, what if anything she could have done about it
Nothing
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 15th Jan 2021, 10:12
  #5994 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 54
Well obviously, as with the unfortunate matter involving fisheries, the charmless Home Sec can't possibly be held accountable if the same "logic " is followed.

Easily done after all.....just click the "delete " button and that's that.....all those records now freeing up a bit more space on the hard drive !

More less than flattering comments are available from Amber, oddly enough about Boris

Priti Patel under fire as 150,000 police records accidentally lost | Priti Patel | The Guardian

Despite evidence to the contrary the Guardian, on here, is often conveniently accused of, erm, not being factually correct.

Thankfully, both the Torygraph and the Spectator are available to ensure such could not possibly be the case elsewhere......alas !

Daily Telegraph rebuked over Toby Young's Covid column | Toby Young | The Guardian

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 15th Jan 2021 at 10:23.
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 15th Jan 2021, 10:46
  #5995 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,911
Somebody in the IT department screws up and you want to blame the Home Secretary?
ORAC is online now  
Old 15th Jan 2021, 12:03
  #5996 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 312
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Somebody in the IT department screws up and you want to blame the Home Secretary?
You've been here long enough to know how it works. Get with the programme ORAC.
yellowtriumph is online now  
Old 15th Jan 2021, 12:25
  #5997 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southport
Posts: 1,155
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Somebody in the IT department screws up and you want to blame the Home Secretary?
It used to be said that you could only delegate actions, not responsibility or accountability, that was why those at the top were compensated accordingly.

If those at the top are not responsible or accountable, then they don't need compensating, do they?

If this no longer applies then those at the top are stealing from us.

Proper IT disaster recovery procedures cost money and need to be regularly tested and reviewed, bean counters don't like this, but like insurance you only find out you need it when it's already too late. Whoever made the decision not to have adequate DR is responsible for this loss.
andytug is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2021, 13:25
  #5998 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 73
Posts: 806
I would have thought that something carrying the massive range of data the PNC carries would have been duplicated somewhere else, off site. If not, then there is no prospect of a plan being in place for disaster recovery for example in case the premises holding the computers is destroyed by fire etc.
If a duplicate/mirror server does exist, then the tidying up of data held should be done only on one server. Once it has been established that that bit of housekeeping has been carried out successfully, the back-up/mirror server can be updated to accurately reflect the main server.
You have to wonder if the Home Office has ever had an ISO9000 audit carried out on their processes?
KelvinD is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2021, 13:44
  #5999 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 68
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I would have thought that something carrying the massive range of data the PNC carries would have been duplicated somewhere else, off site. If not, then there is no prospect of a plan being in place for disaster recovery for example in case the premises holding the computers is destroyed by fire etc.
If a duplicate/mirror server does exist, then the tidying up of data held should be done only on one server. Once it has been established that that bit of housekeeping has been carried out successfully, the back-up/mirror server can be updated to accurately reflect the main server.
You have to wonder if the Home Office has ever had an ISO9000 audit carried out on their processes?
The problem may well be that the accidental deletion wasn't discovered for some time. Where I used to work we had two linked data centres, separated by about 50 miles, operating in parallel. Both were backed up using incremental backups plus off-site copies of backups. However, we didn't keep an infinite number of backups, so after a time the oldest backups would be over-written. IIRC, we kept about a month's worth of daily backups. If the PNC uses a similar system, then it may well be that there were multiple backups, but that the ripple effect of the deletion made its way through all of them.

The PNC is perhaps an unusual case, as legally it has to ensure that deleted data is truly deleted within a set timescale, with no possibility of recovery. The law allows the police to retain some personal data relating to crimes, like fingerprints and DNA sequencing, for a maximum of 6 months, unless that individual is convicted of a crime. So, in the case of people who have never been convicted of a crime, and for whom this time limit has expired, the system must ensure that their data is truly deleted and not recoverable. It almost certainly cannot have some form of "Wayback Machine" that retains snapshots of the database forever, as if it did that it would probably be in breach of the law.
VP959 is online now  
Old 15th Jan 2021, 14:12
  #6000 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 170
At least the Dutch have a decent and honourable government

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55674146

Could you see Boris and the rest of them reigning over anything however serious?


WB627 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.