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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Old 27th Sep 2020, 17:58
  #4481 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
You are quite right AT NOTTS, but your use of the terms, shooting, hunting, fishing set, did sound a bit dismissive. For Gordon Brown I suppose I could equally have used the terms beer swilling, pigeon fancying, ferret keeping set. It would have been just as bad.

Note to self.... Must stop arguing for fairness, it upsets people.
No, you are quite right, though I did miss out the 'blue rinse brigade'
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 18:55
  #4482 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
Oddschecker are giving 4/1 on Boris being out by the end of the year and 8/1 by the end of 2021.

I reckon he'll be gone by Easter 2021.
I find myself torn between wanting to see Johnson gone immediately and for him to stay in office for at least 9 more months.

On the one hand he his an absolute liability and embarrassment as a PM, and as such his removal is totally deserved and warranted.

On the other hand, why should he be allowed to skulk away after the complete clusterf**k he has got the U.K. into? (Admittedly it was not a single handed effort, but he has certainly been a very major player)

A part of me wants to see him ground done completely and broken, his legacy in tatters and his reputation (such as it is) tarnished beyond redemption. I want him standing there at the dispatch box in the spring, trying helplessly to defend and justify the basket case that the UK will, I fear, have become by then.

He wanted this job, he made all these promises to the electorate in order to get it. He either needs to deliver or die in a ditch, he doesn’t deserve an easy out.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 19:12
  #4483 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by Avionker View Post
I find myself torn between wanting to see Johnson gone immediately and for him to stay in office for at least 9 more months.

On the one hand he his an absolute liability and embarrassment as a PM, and as such his removal is totally deserved and warranted.

On the other hand, why should he be allowed to skulk away after the complete clusterf**k he has got the U.K. into? (Admittedly it was not a single handed effort, but he has certainly been a very major player)

A part of me wants to see him ground done completely and broken, his legacy in tatters and his reputation (such as it is) tarnished beyond redemption. I want him standing there at the dispatch box in the spring, trying helplessly to defend and justify the basket case that the UK will, I fear, have become by then.

He wanted this job, he made all these promises to the electorate in order to get it. He either needs to deliver or die in a ditch, he doesn’t deserve an easy out.
Firstly I'm absolutely not a fan of Boris, but I'm curious to understand what exactly he's done (or not done) to engender this vitriol? I mean it isn't like he lied to Parliament and the nation in order to start an illegal war, for example 🤔

Please feel free to enlighten me, I'm genuinely all ears....
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 20:20
  #4484 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Firstly I'm absolutely not a fan of Boris, but I'm curious to understand what exactly he's done (or not done) to engender this vitriol? I mean it isn't like he lied to Parliament and the nation in order to start an illegal war, for example 🤔

Please feel free to enlighten me, I'm genuinely all ears....
Well perhaps we could start with recklessly destroying the economy by falling headlong out of EU transition without any agreement, and putting 100s of thousands of jobs and livelihoods at risk, and thats before we start on the omnishambles that is Covid-19 track and trace.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 21:48
  #4485 (permalink)  
 
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I mean it isn't like he lied to Parliament and the nation
... well he did to the Queen ... and to the electorate (or those who voted him in)
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 21:49
  #4486 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Sussex
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Originally Posted by Avionker View Post
I find myself torn between wanting to see Johnson gone immediately and for him to stay in office for at least 9 more months.

On the one hand he his an absolute liability and embarrassment as a PM, and as such his removal is totally deserved and warranted.

On the other hand, why should he be allowed to skulk away after the complete clusterf**k he has got the U.K. into? (Admittedly it was not a single handed effort, but he has certainly been a very major player)

A part of me wants to see him ground done completely and broken, his legacy in tatters and his reputation (such as it is) tarnished beyond redemption. I want him standing there at the dispatch box in the spring, trying helplessly to defend and justify the basket case that the UK will, I fear, have become by then.

He wanted this job, he made all these promises to the electorate in order to get it. He either needs to deliver or die in a ditch, he doesn’t deserve an easy out.
Well yes, I know how you feel. It is a complete clusterf**k, but to be fair (difficult), he has had a lot of help. DC testing his eyesight, PHE downgrading the virus and therefore the PPE that was to be provided to the NHS, which was clearly not up to the job. Add to that, failure to get testing up and running sooner and failure of track and trace and it was never going to end well.

The risk of not putting the country into lockdown, was the collapse of society as a result of the failure of essential services, overwhelmed by people with the virus, compounded by the lack of key workers, also sick with the virus. The furlough scheme was little more than a sticking plaster on an open wound, better than nothing and if we had a vaccine available in September, as originally envisaged, it might have been enough.

Apart from making sure that the testing was up and running sooner and worked well, (I would have been tempted to put the whole thing in the hands of the military, its a logistics exercise and they are good at that), I would have also made damn sure that we got that track and trace app working sooner and the track and trace system was run and managed by the right people, it clearly wasn't.

I'm not sure what to say about not having the right PPE, I hold PHE entirely responsible for that debacle and the shortage of PPE, I am not sure having enough of the wrong type of PPE would have been much use to anyone.

Above all else, we should have been better prepared for this eventually, but we weren't and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I read a lot on here about what they did wrong, I've written some of it myself, but not much of what people would have done differently that would have saved the day, without losing control of the virus and risking the collapse of society. So if any one has any ideas how this could have been achieved, or what we should do now, post away......

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Old 28th Sep 2020, 07:44
  #4487 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: England
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I'd just like to add that perhaps if all the politicians, experts and strategists were focused on the single issue of dealing with the virus and not also on the second issue of winning the next election, things might have gone differently.

A simple SWOT analyses, even just a month ago, would indicate that the virus is killing the economy. Our response was to ensure this happened by continuing to try and achieve a no deal Brexit. That certainly isn't dealing with a virus, that's looking at the next election.

Last edited by Grayfly; 28th Sep 2020 at 08:17.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 08:15
  #4488 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Well perhaps we could start with recklessly destroying the economy by falling headlong out of EU transition without any agreement, and putting 100s of thousands of jobs and livelihoods at risk, and thats before we start on the omnishambles that is Covid-19 track and trace.
Sorry, I must be missing something, but I didnt realise we had exited the transition period? Neither have I yet witnessed this economic disaster you refer too (from something that hasn't happened yet).

As for Covid-19 Test, Track & Trace, i dont doubt things could have been done differently and in some cases better, but at the end of the day human behaviour is what it is. Would we really be in a significantly better position now if the Track and Trace app had gone live 3mths ago?
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 08:30
  #4489 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Sorry, I must be missing something, but I didnt realise we had exited the transition period? Neither have I yet witnessed this economic disaster you refer too (from something that hasn't happened yet).

As for Covid-19 Test, Track & Trace, i dont doubt things could have been done differently and in some cases better, but at the end of the day human behaviour is what it is. Would we really be in a significantly better position now if the Track and Trace app had gone live 3mths ago?
I am working on the assumption that Johnson and his (unelected) cronie are hell bent on falling headlong over the transition cliff, satisfying a comparative handful fishermen at the expense of putting the rest of the economy and the working population in (greater) economic peril. I do realise that Johnson, probably more than any other PM in recent times is more than capable of a screeching hand break turn, but I fear his master m(DC) may be somewhat more stoical.

As for Covid-19 and the catalogue of errors that the government has made, I am not at all sure that any alternative government, of whatever colour, would have done a lot better. Looking further afield the UK government has in comparison done worse than some, better than others
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 08:32
  #4490 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Sorry, I must be missing something, but I didnt realise we had exited the transition period? Neither have I yet witnessed this economic disaster you refer too (from something that hasn't happened yet).
“I see no evidence of the sea washing over my head” said King Canute confidently as the water lapped round his ankles....
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 08:45
  #4491 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post
“I see no evidence of the sea washing over my head” said King Canute confidently as the water lapped round his ankles....
I wish I'd thought of that analogy! A bit the same I suppose as placing a live crab in a pan of cold water and then turning the gas on. The crab only realises what's happening when it's too late and the consequences are inevitable.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 09:25
  #4492 (permalink)  
 
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Track and Trace fiasco. Hind site suggests it didn't go well. Fore site should have suggested that appointing someone with no successful experience in handling major projects in a healthcare environment would also not go well. That was a political decision not a virus focused decision.

Our front line workers trying to deal with a major pandemic are working at their maximum effort. They are being let down by an inept higher management who's helpful ideas include arranging clapping events on the streets every Thursday night and a lapel badge. A bit of fore site would would also have been helpful here.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 09:58
  #4493 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post
“I see no evidence of the sea washing over my head” said King Canute confidently as the water lapped round his ankles....
Nelson, "I see no ships."
Only hardships.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 10:06
  #4494 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
They are being let down by an inept higher management who's helpful ideas include arranging clapping events on the streets every Thursday
The Dutch Londoner who imported Clap for Carers to the UK has no connection with either the NHS or the government.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 10:26
  #4495 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
The Dutch Londoner who imported Clap for Carers to the UK has no connection with either the NHS or the government.
It's noticeable just how much the apparent (as in reported in the media) public attitude has changed since then. At the time that started there seemed to be a real feeling of people helping others, in any way they could. Now we have photos of students enduring 10 day isolation spells, with posters in their windows proclaiming their student accommodation is one of Her Majesty's Prisons, and people constantly moaning about having their personal freedom to infect others constrained by regulation.

The government's job isn't just to pass laws, it's to show leadership to the people in tough times like these, and help and encourage people to act for the safety and well-being of society as a whole. I see precious little indication of that, when our Prime Buffoon seems more concerned about him not being able to afford a housekeeper. Having been watching and listening to Sir Keir Starmer over the past few weeks, I'm coming around the view that he'd do a much better job than Johnson, and I rather think many more people might trust him to lead us through this global nightmare. Apart from anything else he comes across as fairly honest and trustworthy, not adjectives that could possible be used to describe Johnson, who wouldn't recognise the truth if it bit him in the backside.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 10:28
  #4496 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Non now Dave, you have been with JB for a long tim. You should know that letting facts get in the way of a good grumble just spoils the fun.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 10:36
  #4497 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
The Dutch Londoner who imported Clap for Carers to the UK has no connection with either the NHS or the government.
Ok if you are looking for facts. Agreed, you are 100% correct, it was not an idea from HMG. However, it was adopted and encouraged by our leadership who were televised standing outside No10 clapping to add to their narrative of how well we are doing.

Note to self, I must remember not to use 'idea' and 'our leadership team' in the same sentence. That would be unfair.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 11:17
  #4498 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Grayfly, I must confess that I have never seen the clapping as showing support for the government. I actually thought it was to show support for the NHS and gratitude for the efforts being made and the risks being faced by NHS workers. Having had my eyes opened by you I can see now that I was being misled. The fact that one of my sons is a paramedic must have been blinding me to what it was really all about. Thank you for enlightening me.
x
Note to self....Must become more cynical, you are out of step.

Last edited by keith williams; 28th Sep 2020 at 12:24.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 11:29
  #4499 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
Thank you for enlightening me.
You are very welcome

Two of my family are front line health workers and listening to their experiences and concerns may now make my observations of our current leadership come over as cynical.

I'm running out of notes to self.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 12:08
  #4500 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
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I came here to have a rant about the HoC bar staying open past the 10pm curfew because it is considered a 'staff canteen'. However, having written a relatively guarded email to my MP to point out the duplicity of such a policy, it seems the Commons have u-turned on the matter. Blimey! That was quick!
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