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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Old 26th Sep 2020, 21:49
  #4461 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post
Were ORAC around Iím sure she would be eager to post (maybe not link &#128521 the latest Opinium poll findings that have Labour on 42% and the Tories on 39%. This is the first time Labour have been ahead since July 2019 when Mayís leadership was in itís final tailspin, and the Brexit Party and the Lib Demís had 37% between them. Article is in the Guardian for those eager to read more.

Yes, 2024 is a long way ahead....
Wouldnít hold my breath if I were you. I am still awaiting a reply to a question I posed to ORAC in post #4355.


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Old 26th Sep 2020, 21:57
  #4462 (permalink)  
 
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I believe KS is keeping his powder dry at PMQs and heeding the advice of, never interrupt your enemy when they are making mistakes. Some might say KS is not pressing BJ hard enough but he's wise to say that he has supported Government overall handling of the covid crisis so far. He left it to Milliband and Blackford to press BJ on the details, BJ looked defeated.

JRM carped on about the carping on about the failure of testing. BJ carps on about the pay and conditions of being PM. Are they for real?

Last edited by hiflymk3; 27th Sep 2020 at 09:53.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 08:50
  #4463 (permalink)  
 
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A Sunday morning thought....change PMQs to Prime Minster's Answers and change the terms of reference to answer the question you were asked, not the one you would like to have been asked. Give the speaker additional powers to insist that members must withdraw that answer or be ejected from the chamber. Similar to accusations of lying.

Probably much better just to get rid of PMQs and have more select committees question the PM on specific topics.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 09:53
  #4464 (permalink)  
 
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[
BJ carps on about the pay and conditions of being PM.
When was that?
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 10:50
  #4465 (permalink)  
 
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I am looking forward to Sunday's World Beating Omni-shambles.

Will be a great Learning Opportunity.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 10:50
  #4466 (permalink)  
 
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rogerg here ans many other newspapers.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...runk-150k.html
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 11:30
  #4467 (permalink)  
 
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As it was not in the Telegraph it must be fake news!
Only made up heresay.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 11:50
  #4468 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hiflymk3 View Post
I believe KS is keeping his powder dry at PMQs and heeding the advice of, never interrupt your enemy when they are making mistakes. Some might say KS is not pressing BJ hard enough but he's wise to say that he has supported Government overall handling of the covid crisis so far.
In some ways KS is in an enviable position. As the leader of the opposition he can criticise and condemn the government all he likes without having to make any tough decisions or take responsibility himself. Heads he wins, tails he doesn't lose. Although quite honestly the shambles the govt are making of things at the moment is making life easy for Kier Starmer and co.

There's going to come a time, though, when the Covid debacle is behind us and Starmer needs to offer his own vision rather than simply oppose for the sake of opposing.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 12:45
  #4469 (permalink)  
 
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I have been assured that everything you read in the popular press is true, unless you happen to know the actual facts.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 12:58
  #4470 (permalink)  
 
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Fortunately the forum is blessed to have you Fitter2. You are, apparently, not only privy to real information, but can also do the necessary thinking (ref. to your arrogant remark on the US politics thread). Why do the rest of us bother, when we can just have you tell us how it is?
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 13:27
  #4471 (permalink)  
 
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PMQs seems completely pointless to me. The PM never, ever, answers any searching questions, is never held to account as he and his government should be, and the whole thing seems to have turned into the worst kind of trashy entertainment. The public deserve to have the government held to account by Her Majesty's Opposition, and the PM, and other ministers, should be forced, by law, to give full and honest answers to questions, in the same way as a witness in a court of law has to. There should also be a stop to the arse licking questions planted by government MPs. The time should be spent forcing the PM, and the government, to explain what they are doing, why things have not gone as well as they should and what they are planning to do to correct their errors and get things back on track.

The problem we have is that the PM wouldn't know the truth if it came up and bit him in the arse. He's spent much of his life making things up, and being paid handsomely for doing so, and to imagine that he has turned over a new leaf, just because he's now PM, is in the same category as believing in unicorns.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 14:20
  #4472 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
PMQs seems completely pointless to me. The PM never, ever, answers any searching questions, is never held to account as he and his government should be, and the whole thing seems to have turned into the worst kind of trashy entertainment. The public deserve to have the government held to account by Her Majesty's Opposition, and the PM, and other ministers, should be forced, by law, to give full and honest answers to questions, in the same way as a witness in a court of law has to. There should also be a stop to the arse licking questions planted by government MPs. The time should be spent forcing the PM, and the government, to explain what they are doing, why things have not gone as well as they should and what they are planning to do to correct their errors and get things back on track.

The problem we have is that the PM wouldn't know the truth if it came up and bit him in the arse. He's spent much of his life making things up, and being paid handsomely for doing so, and to imagine that he has turned over a new leaf, just because he's now PM, is in the same category as believing in unicorns.
I struggle to see the point of PMQs, or why broadcasters show it live, and indeed why the likes of Kuensberg get so excited about it.

Interesting to see the arch Tory Camilla Tomminey on The Marr Show this morning being somewhat less than complimentary about the current PM. If the downward spiral of support for the government continues, and Starmer's star continues to rise, then I expect a new PM, once again elected by a couple of hundred thousand of the "hunting, shoot and fishing" brigade, to be anointed some time in the next 12 - 18 months.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 14:42
  #4473 (permalink)  
 
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or they could just anoint someone like the Labour Party did with Gordon Brown. That method is much more democratic.


Last edited by keith williams; 27th Sep 2020 at 14:47. Reason: vcy
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 15:11
  #4474 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
or they could just anoint someone like the Labour Party did with Gordon Brown. That method is much more democratic.
Brown was nominated by the overwhelming majority of sitting Labour MPís. No one else got enough nominations to stand in the leadership contest so a ballot of Labour members was not required.

That I believe is exactly the same procedure as the Conservatives follow is it not?

And I would not be surprised if Bojoís replacement did not follow the same path to No 10 as Brown. Who the hell would want the job at the moment?
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 15:21
  #4475 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Avionker View Post
Brown was nominated by the overwhelming majority of sitting Labour MPís. No one else got enough nominations to stand in the leadership contest so a ballot of Labour members was not required.

That I believe is exactly the same procedure as the Conservatives follow is it not?

And I would not be surprised if Bojoís replacement did not follow the same path to No 10 as Brown. Who the hell would want the job at the moment?
Gove
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 15:29
  #4476 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
or they could just anoint someone like the Labour Party did with Gordon Brown. That method is much more democratic.
Doesn't make any difference whether the internally elected (or indeed anointed) PM is Labour, Tory, LibDem or Monster Raving Looney it is undemocratic, and were the UK to have a modern constitution such methods would surely, at some stage, have been stopped as being inappropriate in a modern 21st century democracy, as indeed they should have been in the 20th century. So far as I can recall, Callaghan replaced Wilson whilst in office, Major replaced Thatcher, Brown replaced Blair, May replaced Cameron and latterly, Johnson replaced May. Despite it being custom and practice is is sharp practice, especially as these days, and as Corbyn learnt to Labour's cost, the reality is that the electorate at a general election votes for the next PM as it's first priority, and for individual constituency candidates as a second though.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 15:43
  #4477 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Avionker View Post
Brown was nominated by the overwhelming majority of sitting Labour MP’s. No one else got enough nominations to stand in the leadership contest so a ballot of Labour members was not required.

That I believe is exactly the same procedure as the Conservatives follow is it not?

And I would not be surprised if Bojo’s replacement did not follow the same path to No 10 as Brown. Who the hell would want the job at the moment
?
That may well have been the case when the Tory party, as most of us understand the party to be, existed. Thanks to Boris, albeit not entirely alone, the current manifestation is Tory in name only, so any semblance of an open selection process will be purely cosmetic.

On the surface, your final question is perfectly rational and valid.......however, never underestimate the allure of political gratification when it comes to getting your fizzog on the walls of No 10. That nice Mr Gove, whose accuracy with backs would put any circus knife throwing act to shame, would almost certainly relish the opportunity for example as would a Mr Hunt....

That said, there's only the tiny matter of approval......this approval being that of a certain " D.C." and without that, nobody will be going anywhere when Boris is summarily evicted....which will be long before the next GE date because he's now a prominent liability to the rather useful 80 odd seats his "promises " managed to convince voters he could be trusted to deliver.

Lets be fair here. The original plan was simple. Yap forth suitable slogan " Get Brexit Done " !...get votes, get a somewhat higher than expected majority, spend this year blaming the EU for all and everything, have a suitably jingoistic "party " when we flounce out of the door in December and Bingo ! Boris enshrined for ever, and ever !......alas, an unforeseen hiccup arrived as we know and the veneer Boris has created started to fade...rapidly.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 16:13
  #4478 (permalink)  
 
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You are quite right AT NOTTS, but your use of the terms, shooting, hunting, fishing set, did sound a bit dismissive. For Gordon Brown I suppose I could equally have used the terms beer swilling, pigeon fancying, ferret keeping set. It would have been just as bad.

Note to self.... Must stop arguing for fairness, it upsets people.

Last edited by keith williams; 27th Sep 2020 at 17:24.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 17:22
  #4479 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
That may well have been the case when the Tory party, as most of us understand the party to be, existed. Thanks to Boris, albeit not entirely alone, the current manifestation is Tory in name only, so any semblance of an open selection process will be purely cosmetic.

On the surface, your final question is perfectly rational and valid.......however, never underestimate the allure of political gratification when it comes to getting your fizzog on the walls of No 10. That nice Mr Gove, whose accuracy with backs would put any circus knife throwing act to shame, would almost certainly relish the opportunity for example as would a Mr Hunt....

That said, there's only the tiny matter of approval......this approval being that of a certain " D.C." and without that, nobody will be going anywhere when Boris is summarily evicted....which will be long before the next GE date because he's now a prominent liability to the rather useful 80 odd seats his "promises " managed to convince voters he could be trusted to deliver.

Lets be fair here. The original plan was simple. Yap forth suitable slogan " Get Brexit Done " !...get votes, get a somewhat higher than expected majority, spend this year blaming the EU for all and everything, have a suitably jingoistic "party " when we flounce out of the door in December and Bingo ! Boris enshrined for ever, and ever !......alas, an unforeseen hiccup arrived as we know and the veneer Boris has created started to fade...rapidly.
First, welcome back KnC.

I already mentioned that useless self serving waste of space Gove, who would do anything IMHO, to get his foot in the door of No 10. However, I think Hunt has more sense and would not touch it with a bargepole, waiting instead for someone else to clear up the inevitable pile of sh1t from this pandemic. He's still young enough to sit out the next parliament, whist Starmer ruins his reputation trying.

DC, I'm pretty certain will be gone with Boris, unless he has a pile of dirt on his successor.



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Old 27th Sep 2020, 17:40
  #4480 (permalink)  
 
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Oddschecker are giving 4/1 on Boris being out by the end of the year and 8/1 by the end of 2021.

I reckon he'll be gone by Easter 2021.
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