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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Old 22nd May 2020, 13:53
  #2941 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,923
There is some logic, Kelvin, to Greece carrying out swabs as you describe. Much less so the other way, since Greece has had only 160odd deaths over the entire crisis. Yet we’re about to shut down aviation and tourism for a “be seen to do something “ political gesture.

ps Kelvin. You railed at some length about the government plans to recruit contact tracers and branded them a bunch of liars. Yet they seem to have recruited them all and more: no doubt apology on the way?
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:32
  #2942 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 73
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
There is some logic, Kelvin, to Greece carrying out swabs as you describe. Much less so the other way, since Greece has had only 160odd deaths over the entire crisis. Yet we’re about to shut down aviation and tourism for a “be seen to do something “ political gesture.

ps Kelvin. You railed at some length about the government plans to recruit contact tracers and branded them a bunch of liars. Yet they seem to have recruited them all and more: no doubt apology on the way?
Nice thought ShotOne but no, there will be no apology on the way. One would assume that, when Hancock made his announcement on April 23rd regarding recruiting 18,000 contact tracing staff, he presumably meant trained people. In other words, people who could carry out the task of looking at a phone number and calling someone to tell them the glad tidings. I am not referring to the clinicians who are to be recruited, just the call centre operatives. And there have been numerous stories in the media recently from these people complaining about training or a lack of it. I honestly do not believe that if the government was challenged to put all these operatives to work this afternoon, they would be very hard pressed to find this phalanx of umpteen thousands to begin work just after tea time.
And, if they are not lying, how about the phantom tests? Today the cheeky sods report that 80,297 people were tested over the last 24 hours. That includes 43,058 "Kits sent out". So, a true total of 37,869 tested over that period. Factor in the unavailability of home testing kits for 2 days recently, you have to wonder where did they get these 43,058 kits to send out? Not from NHS!
So yes, cheap Japanese watch syndrome here and no apologies are merited.
If the daily dose of numbers could be shown to be true and the government was big enough to admit that they were wrong, I could accept that. Compulsive lying on this scale gets no plaudits from me, I am afraid!
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:39
  #2943 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 378
Re: testing. It is worth noting that the demand for testing has significantly decreased over the past week or two. One of the testing centres here closed this week, because not a single person had turned up to be tested for several days.

Hardly the government's fault for not meeting a testing target if people don't turn up to be tested, is it?
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:50
  #2944 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 349
Perhaps more people would turn up for testing if they knew what benefit it could be for them personally?
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:58
  #2945 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Perhaps more people would turn up for testing if they knew what benefit it could be for them personally?

Perhaps, but there's not a lot of point in just testing people for the sake of it, at least not until we get a fairly reliable antibody test. For example, it'd be pointless for either of us to go and get tested, as we've not been in contact with anyone for several days, probably the last time either of us came close to another person was about ten days ago when I went to the supermarket, and I took the usual precautions, so there was pretty low chance that I picked up this virus there.

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Old 22nd May 2020, 15:42
  #2946 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
Age: 59
Posts: 771
VP959
You have it one, there needs to be an antibody test. I have been tested both in UK and Germany to try and aid work and indeed transit, but as we all know the current test proves that on the day you were tested you were not a positive, but could be infected 20min later. I know we do not know if previously having the virus gives you any immunity, but my totally uneducated guess is that it will to a greater or lesser degree unless you have underlying health issues. After talking to some doctors both in the UK and Germany (though none are bacteriologists, but they have been working with Covid patients), that was their general consensus of opinion as well. Therefore yes take sensible precautions but carry on as best you can in the circumstances what ever you are doing in life be it work or socially.
Sally
I think the UK govt has scared a chunk of the UK population that much that they will not go to hospital casualty dept when in severe pain due to fear of infection,so they are not going to turn up for Covid testing station unless you pay them to do so, and even then I am not sure you would still get a big take up. I think we have to live with it as I personally did with SARS in Hong Kong, I just feel I am mighty unlucky to have gone through this twice in my life now, as I am sure other people who either lived there or were expats in SE Asia at the time also think.

Kind regards
Mr Mac
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Old 22nd May 2020, 15:50
  #2947 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Perhaps, but there's not a lot of point in just testing people for the sake of it, at least not until we get a fairly reliable antibody test. For example, it'd be pointless for either of us to go and get tested, as we've not been in contact with anyone for several days, probably the last time either of us came close to another person was about ten days ago when I went to the supermarket, and I took the usual precautions, so there was pretty low chance that I picked up this virus there.
Perhaps I was too brief, but that was exactly the point I was making. There's no good saying "You can be tested if you want". What would bring people in would be to say "If you get tested then xxxx". But just at the moment there is no xxxx. It's pointless.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 15:54
  #2948 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Darkest Lincs
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
If that's true, why do you have to advise the passport agency when you move house? And if it's true it makes the proposed quarantine regulations even less workable. Might as well tell whoever asks that you'll be living at 1, Anystreet, Anytown; if they can't cross check how would they ever know you were fibbing?
I moved to Spain and didn't even have to tell the passport office I was changing my country of domicile !
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Old 22nd May 2020, 16:20
  #2949 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 73
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The answer to underuse of test centres may be found here:
https://test-for-coronavirus.service.gov.uk/appointment
Tells you you can apply for a test if you have symptoms of coronavirus, or are an essential worker or you have a magic code that has appeared as a text message. No instructions pointing to how you cause the "system" to generate this code.
Not to worry, if that doesn't suit, follow the path to enlightenment via the NHS web site:
This tells you it is best to get the test in the first 3 days (Dear diary, coronavirus is due on Thursday so I had better book a test for Saturday, latest).
It also explains:
" People in hospital and essential workers, including NHS and social care staff, are getting priority.
Even if you are successful in requesting a test, we cannot guarantee you will get one. It depends on how many tests are available each day in different parts of the country."
They will ask you for a name, mobile telephone number and an address. Address? This is for a virus test, not a census check!
Another rummage around the web shows there was a testing centre at the Wilts Air Ambulance base. Otherwise there appears to have been no test centres in Wiltshire at all! So, where was this one that closed due to lack of interest?
Check Wednesday's i for a list:
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coro...y-test-2558765
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Old 22nd May 2020, 16:28
  #2950 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
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Indeed. The principal effect of this quarantine will be to hammer the last nails into the coffins of the aviation and tourism industries.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 16:39
  #2951 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
The answer to underuse of test centres may be found here:
https://test-for-coronavirus.service.gov.uk/appointment
Tells you you can apply for a test if you have symptoms of coronavirus, or are an essential worker or you have a magic code that has appeared as a text message. No instructions pointing to how you cause the "system" to generate this code.
Not to worry, if that doesn't suit, follow the path to enlightenment via the NHS web site:
This tells you it is best to get the test in the first 3 days (Dear diary, coronavirus is due on Thursday so I had better book a test for Saturday, latest).
It also explains:
" People in hospital and essential workers, including NHS and social care staff, are getting priority.
Even if you are successful in requesting a test, we cannot guarantee you will get one. It depends on how many tests are available each day in different parts of the country."
They will ask you for a name, mobile telephone number and an address. Address? This is for a virus test, not a census check!
Another rummage around the web shows there was a testing centre at the Wilts Air Ambulance base. Otherwise there appears to have been no test centres in Wiltshire at all! So, where was this one that closed due to lack of interest?
Check Wednesday's i for a list:
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coro...y-test-2558765
The one at the Beehive park and ride car park closed earlier this week, it seems, due to lack of demand.

Makes sense when you think about it, the incidence of disease is dropping therefore there's less need to test people, as there are simply less people that actually need to be tested.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 16:58
  #2952 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 73
Posts: 796
I have just heard Priti Thick rambling on about "why now" for the quarantine brilliant idea.
According to her, now is exactly the right time for this. If this had been introduced earlier it would have made it difficult to repatriate Britons abroad. What tosh! Didn't I watch a 747 full 9ish) of Brits returning from China, destined for 14 days quarantine, whether they like id it or not?. That was on Feb 20th, showing that the word quarantine was available even then!
The Madam thinks it was not a good idea to introduce quarantine before today. It just wouldn't have helped and, if not enforced now, may result in a new wave of cases. Tell that to the 36 thousand who died in the meantime!
I have heard weasel words in the past and today's performance was a tour de force in that department. 0 out of 10; must try harder.
Oh yes, the 7th letter of the alphabet is 'g'. When used as the last letter of a verb in the present continuous tense it is ALWAYS sounded. The same as one would pronounce it in Golf, or Go and Get a proper job, Mrs. Patel!
Off we go now to a boast of how many guns, drugs etc the Border Force have found. Well, if air travel into the UK has declined by 99%, what else would they be doing? That's enough of his flanneling; bring on Patrick Vallance, the counter of buses. Riveting stuff as ever from him.
I'm off to make some dinner. I can't stand any more of this tripe!
Finally though, it would be grounds to suspect this is someone masquerading as Kelvin if I didn't mention today's hallucinations:
Tests carried out = 140,497.
Actual people tested = 80,297
Test kits dispatched = 43,058
Real tests carried out on real people actual figure = 37, 239.
That's the way to do it! At that rate we will have the entire population tested in just under 5 years.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 17:17
  #2953 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
That's the way to do it! At that rate we will have the entire population tested in just under 5 years.
What earthly point would there be in testing the whole population, or even just 1% of the population? Swab testing only makes any sense when there is a specific reason to do it, and politics isn't a valid reason at all, in any way, shape or form - following that path quickly leads to the madness of Trump. If people fear they have been infected then they should be able to get a test whilst they are in the infective window (roughly three days after contact with an infected person until they recover from the illness). Testing people just for the sake of boosting test numbers, as if it makes some sort of sense to do so, is pretty pointless, and a waste of resources that could be doing something useful.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 22:24
  #2954 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 73
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I have to wonder VP959: Does "tongue in cheek" make a noise as it flies right by you? Although I tire of saying this so often, I shall say it again: Where did you see me advocating the entire population? You are probably right about there being no point in testing the entire population. In fact I have said more than once that I don't really understand the theory of testing somebody today, raising their hopes when they are told they are negative, only to discover they are struck down with Covid tomorrow.
Equally, I do not understand the logic of repeating duff information on a daily basis. Other, that is, than to create a bogus impression that all is well, look at what fantastic (and of course 'world beating') things your government is doing for you. The government recognise that of all the ills, false steps and cock ups, this test number thing is the only item where they will not be able to point at others and say "We followed the best scientific advice".
Meanwhile, might one mention D. Cummings? I suppose that makes things even now in the strange twilight of the political world: 2 Scientists broke their own lock down rules and paid for it with their jobs. 2 Politicians broke the same rules and get away with it. Situation normal!
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Old 23rd May 2020, 03:43
  #2955 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 90
Test for anyone with cold or flu like symptoms.

trace the contacts of positive cases.

Random testing in hot spots, to find the newly infected before symptoms.

It really isn't that hard
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Old 23rd May 2020, 05:35
  #2956 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 161
Meanwhile, might one mention D. Cummings? I suppose that makes things even now in the strange twilight of the political world: 2 Scientists broke their own lock down rules and paid for it with their jobs. 2 Politicians broke the same rules and get away with it. Situation normal!
Seems the police visited the house he had visited while he was there, following reports of his presence https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-23/...sack-cummings/

Would have been quite appropriate if they had said “well, now you are here, you can stay here for the remainder of the lockdown”. Instead, he was presumably allowed to travel the country again to return home, while displaying coronavirus symptoms (again, according to the linked article/Downing Street).
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Old 23rd May 2020, 07:32
  #2957 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I have to wonder VP959: Does "tongue in cheek" make a noise as it flies right by you? Although I tire of saying this so often, I shall say it again: Where did you see me advocating the entire population? You are probably right about there being no point in testing the entire population. In fact I have said more than once that I don't really understand the theory of testing somebody today, raising their hopes when they are told they are negative, only to discover they are struck down with Covid tomorrow.
Equally, I do not understand the logic of repeating duff information on a daily basis. Other, that is, than to create a bogus impression that all is well, look at what fantastic (and of course 'world beating') things your government is doing for you. The government recognise that of all the ills, false steps and cock ups, this test number thing is the only item where they will not be able to point at others and say "We followed the best scientific advice".
Meanwhile, might one mention D. Cummings? I suppose that makes things even now in the strange twilight of the political world: 2 Scientists broke their own lock down rules and paid for it with their jobs. 2 Politicians broke the same rules and get away with it. Situation normal!
The point is that you keep using the number of tests performed per day as some sort of stick to beat the government with, and whilst there are a lot of things about this government that are worthy of criticism, blaming them for the number of tests per day dropping, as a consequence of the incidence of disease dropping, is unfair, and it tends to then lead to any valid criticisms that are subsequently made being lost in the general torrent of muck throwing. Under the current rules, those with symptoms are still supposed to self-isolate (so cannot go out to a test centre), so test centres should be only dealing with those who are well, but have a valid reason for being tested, like those working in the health and care sector.

It's clear that Cummings is very definitely worthy of criticism, for a whole host of reasons, not least his antics in assuming that the rules don't apply to him. I'm frankly sick and tired of this unelected, yet seemingly highly influential, man calling the shots.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 08:52
  #2958 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 73
Posts: 796
VP959:
The point is that you keep using the number of tests performed per day as some sort of stick to beat the government with, and whilst there are a lot of things about this government that are worthy of criticism, blaming them for the number of tests per day dropping, as a consequence of the incidence of disease dropping, is unfair, and it tends to then lead to any valid criticisms that are subsequently made being lost in the general torrent of muck throwing. Under the current rules, those with symptoms are still supposed to self-isolate (so cannot go out to a test centre), so test centres should be only dealing with those who are well, but have a valid reason for being tested, like those working in the health and care sector.
Now I know for certain you do not read fully other people's posts. I do not use the number of tests performed per day as some sort of stick ..etc I use those numbers to point out the lies and spin we are being fed on a daily basis. Frankly, I am not sure I worry about whether there are 100 tests per day or 1 million. The point is the government lies/obfuscates/spins (pick a verb) on a regular basis and I feel I am entitles to shout "Liar, liar etc" when I see this. Besides the moral issue of lying, there is the assumption that we, the great unwashed, are stupid to see through the lies, adding to the insult of the way the government view us. I would have a vastly different view of the Whitehall parasites if only they had the balls to come up one day and say something along the lines of "We know we set this target and, unfortunately, things have conspired to make this target problematical.." That, I would class as honesty and that scores much higher with me.
Your point regarding who should be tested and who not is also a demonstration of your refusal to read and understand what is being shown you. Beginning with your assertion that "under the current rules...". I recommend you read the gov.uk and NHS pages on who gets tested. You say only the well should be getting tested. The well do not show any symptoms and therefore can not comply with the government's recommendation that the ideal time to show up for a test is within the first 3 days of your symptoms appearing. What are the symptoms of being well, I wonder?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:42
  #2959 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: England
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Equally, I do not understand the logic of repeating duff information on a daily basis. Other, that is, than to create a bogus impression that all is well, look at what fantastic (and of course 'world beating') things your government is doing for you.
It's probably just me, I see the briefings as election broadcasts. BJ and his team are good at winning elections, that's all they know how to do. They are stuck in the only mode they know. The virus is just the nasty opposition and they can't let them win. The virus can't be trusted with the economy, you'll be jobless etc, keep voting (clapping) for us and we will win.They might as well put the stuff on the side of buses, if they were all running.

As someone pointed out on the radio the other day, using your common sense is an individual action and it is the job of government to protect us from the actions of individuals.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:56
  #2960 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 0
KD
Posturing and posing are the twin attributes of any politician. They must always have what they think is the correct answer !

Last edited by Capt Kremmen; 23rd May 2020 at 11:11.
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