Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Wages and Hours

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Wages and Hours

Old 20th Nov 2019, 16:46
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SAM. u.k.
Age: 78
Posts: 274
Wages and Hours

From the dianne abbot school of mathematics and economics, AKA the labour party.
Minimum wage to be raised to 10 per hour, working week to be dropped to 32 hours, anyone see the problem?
denachtenmai is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 18:23
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: There and here
Posts: 2,370
Universal income will make up the rest of the 'gap' no doubt. Just press 'Command P' and unicorn digits will fly out of the orifii of the BoE ;-)
SpringHeeledJack is online now  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 18:42
  #3 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,143
Originally Posted by denachtenmai View Post
From the dianne abbot school of mathematics and economics, AKA the labour party.
Minimum wage to be raised to 10 per hour, working week to be dropped to 32 hours, anyone see the problem?
Nope.....current min wage 8.21ph ......plus, and I know this may be a revelation for you, many getting the minimum wage don't get anywhere near 32hrs pw.

Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 19:29
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: SE England
Posts: 653
Just press 'Command P' and unicorn digits will fly out of the orifii of the BoE ;-)
Isn't helicopter money a bit too aviation related for JB?
Dan Dare is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 19:45
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 69
Posts: 62
I was talking to a taxi operator today, he was complaining about a competitor undercutting on prices. One of the competitor's drivers told him that yesterday he did ten hours and after taking out his expenses he was left with forty quid. The story up and down the country that 8.21 is a fantasy for many.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 20:27
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Cheltenham, UK
Posts: 135
As a business owner, this 16 year old having a MW of 10 is ludicrous. We're not going to employ some kid on that rate when we can get someone with more/life experience. Anyhow, I understand full time education is required until the age of 18 or 19 so not quite sure how that stacks up, unless he wants part time to get it too.

I like the other 'advert' going around which states the top 5% tax payers would pay about 8.50 more per month under labour but in return we'd get lots more housing, a new green deal, more this and that etc. However I make it to be about 2m people in this bracket and all told that's only an extra 16m per month, not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things.
BirdmanBerry is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 21:30
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SAM. u.k.
Age: 78
Posts: 274
many getting the minimum wage don't get anywhere near 32hrs pw.
What about the others who do get to 40/32 hours per week, are they going to be happy taking a pay cut?
denachtenmai is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 21:48
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 773
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Nope.....current min wage 8.21ph ......plus, and I know this may be a revelation for you, many getting the minimum wage don't get anywhere near 32hrs pw.

And funny enough, many don't want to work anywhere near 32 hours per week!
Saintsman is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 01:37
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 66
Posts: 3,459
Seattle raised the minimum wage to $15/hr. a few years back, and commissioned the University of Washington to study the effects the new minimum had on the working poor.

Result, average $/hr. increased, but hours/week dropped enough that take-home pay actually dropped. Plus, many min-wage jobs simply went away due to increased automation.

Of course, the extreme leftist Seattle City Council immediately condemned the U of W study as false because it didn't give the desired result. So they spent even more taxpayer money for another study from a college in California that agreed to give them the desired result.

No wonder people have so much trouble recognizing satirical web sites - sometimes the truth is stranger...
tdracer is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 05:14
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North West UK
Posts: 534
We have two members of staff who refuse pay increases or to do more hours because it affects their benefit claims. The system is ludicrous already without Labour's daft plans.
Espada III is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 07:21
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Malvern, UK
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by denachtenmai View Post
From the dianne abbot school of mathematics and economics, AKA the labour party.
Minimum wage to be raised to 10 per hour, working week to be dropped to 32 hours, anyone see the problem?
I do not see a problem, I see two unrelated issues pertaining to working conditions.
Before berating Ms. Abbot's mathematical skills one should be sure of one's own powers of logic.
Dont Hang Up is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 08:09
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 1,218
I did 69 3/4 hours in the last seven days. The guy I work alongside did well over 80. If we had to drop to 32 hours then the company would need to hire twice as many people and charge 4 times as much to customers. can't see how that works.
blue up is online now  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 08:12
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,358
Unfortunately, it's difficult to move up from a minimum wage job. Well paying blue collar work which could be done with few qualifications has nearly disappeared, the car factories and shipyards of the 1980s are all but gone.

You're either serving food on the minimum or doing nicely in an area which requires a reasonable amount of training and certification, there isn't much in-between.
krismiler is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 08:20
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,277
Originally Posted by Espada III View Post
We have two members of staff who refuse pay increases or to do more hours because it affects their benefit claims. The system is ludicrous already without Labour's daft plans.
It does indeed seem to be daft that we have a large number of businesses whose wages bills are subsidised by the tax payer..

https://www.theguardian.com/business...tudies-poverty
wiggy is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 10:04
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 337
Unfortunately, it's difficult to move up from a minimum wage job. Well paying blue collar work which could be done with few qualifications has nearly disappeared, the car factories and shipyards of the 1980s are all but gone.

You're either serving food on the minimum or doing nicely in an area which requires a reasonable amount of training and certification, there isn't much in-between.
I don't agree with this at all. It has actually never been easier to move between jobs/careers. Online training is becoming more and more popular and we now have the ability to learn a wide range of subjects from schools and universities worldwide from our own home or on the train, bus etc. It's possible to do a course that might have taken a year at college a couple of hours a week at your own pace as quick as you want. As this grows employers will become more and more relaxed about the need for a degree or known qualification in exchange for a demonstrable ability.

People love to talk about factories, mines and other outdated industries closing but that is progress. How many people actually want to see their kids go down a mine? As these jobs have gone there as been an explosion in IT and tech jobs that just didn't exist even a decade or so ago. You can learn all this in your own time on your phone and it truly astounds me when I see people playing candy crush on a device that is capable of teaching them almost anything they chose.
felixflyer is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 11:20
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: There and here
Posts: 2,370
You can learn all this in your own time on your phone and it truly astounds me when I see people playing candy crush on a device that is capable of teaching them almost anything they chose.
When you think of all the incredible and positive tasks or activities you can do on a laptop, tablet or phone, it is truly shocking just how much of their usage has been for superficial things that in most cases don't bring anyone forward in their lives except for the providers of said content. That's just human nature I suppose, always taking the easiest route unless forced to step up to the plate. Those that can see the potential are 'doing' and those that can't are 'distracting'. I can't confess to be a big user of the smartphone, but I do use it like a Swiss Army knife of sorts and find it very useful in many areas.

Unless there is a sea-change in attitudes by the masses doing menial jobs to better themselves and move on to better jobs and wages, the future might well create a quasi-dystopian future headache for any government, especially when one factors in the robotisation of many repetitive tasks.
SpringHeeledJack is online now  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 11:29
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 74
Posts: 820
We have two members of staff who refuse pay increases or to do more hours because it affects their benefit claims.
Some years ago, I was struggling to find work. Approaching 60 made it more difficult, added to the fact I was a single Dad and therefore not able to take up the lots of offers I had for work abroad. I found a "job for now" and was taken on with a 16 hour per week contract. After some time, the company asked me if I would like to go full time. My pride told me I should as I felt it right to be in full time work, doing my bit. Bloody hell! Was I ever sorry! The loss of whatever HM Government were giving me in allowances disappeared, taxes etc reappeared, my net income decreased and life became more difficult. The company refused to allow me to go back to the part time week so I was stuck. Pride was satisfied but not the household bills!
As someone mentioned, those allowances are there to effectively subsidise employers.
blue up: There is nothing clever about doing 80 hours per week. I have worked in situations where I was putting in even more than that, so I have plenty of experience there. One thing working such long hours does is to ensure your retirement won't last too long. I am not sure about your arithmetic re "charging the customer 4 times as much if the company has 2 times the number of employees". A man-hour is a man-hour when all is said and done and if a job takes x man hours, then that is what would be charged. If a customer discovered you were charging twice (never mind 4 times) the usual rate purely because you had hired extra people, they would soon be off.
KelvinD is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 11:42
  #18 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,143
Originally Posted by felixflyer View Post
I don't agree with this at all. It has actually never been easier to move between jobs/careers. Online training is becoming more and more popular and we now have the ability to learn a wide range of subjects from schools and universities worldwide from our own home or on the train, bus etc. It's possible to do a course that might have taken a year at college a couple of hours a week at your own pace as quick as you want. As this grows employers will become more and more relaxed about the need for a degree or known qualification in exchange for a demonstrable ability.

People love to talk about factories, mines and other outdated industries closing but that is progress. How many people actually want to see their kids go down a mine? As these jobs have gone there as been an explosion in IT and tech jobs that just didn't exist even a decade or so ago. You can learn all this in your own time on your phone and it truly astounds me when I see people playing candy crush on a device that is capable of teaching them almost anything they chose.
And thank you for yet another parallel universe offering here on JB.

Easy to move between careers ?.....lets start with the location of a new career ..and then consider transport, housing, relocation, family to name but a few.

A "known qualification "......always useful at interviews, for example " I lurnt to be a pilot.... or licensed engineer..... on line " ( other occupations also available )

Factories ?....still exist strangely as does the manufacturing sector....and mines you say. True, Mummsy and Daddy may not be in agreement about their children's career choice, and clearly little Tabatha and Tarquin may aspire to something with a grand job title not involving anything too physically strenuous , but that doesn't mean some won't be interested in mining......and the wonderful world of IT.....useful, I agree, but not for everybody and you might think qualifications would come in useful here.


https://www.mining-technology.com/fe...mining-the-uk/


Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 12:25
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 74
Posts: 820
"Easy to move between careers"
"Full employment"
Don't the 2 contradict each other? Surely, the term "Full employment" implies that should you wish to move into a nice new job, we don't have any vacancies for you to walk into? (But your details will be kept on file etc etc).
KelvinD is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 12:28
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,277
A "known qualification "......always useful at interviews, for example " I lurnt to be a pilot.... or licensed engineer..... on line " ( other occupations also available
You presumably mean things like Doctor, Surgeon, Plumber, Electrician...........

On-line resources can be handy for improving niche skills and as a resource to be used in parallel with workshop/lecture room/classroom teaching but they sure as heck aren't in themselves going to enable a significant career switch.
wiggy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.