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The Queen and Brexit

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The Queen and Brexit

Old 5th Sep 2019, 00:12
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The Queen and Brexit

What would happen if The Queen decided to withhold Royal Assent for the bill to block no deal Brexit? Would it become law anyway?
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 06:02
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No.

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019...ackbench-bill/

“Royal Assent

The third stage of legislation is normally a formality. It is that the Crown must agree to the legislation through the prerogative of Royal Assent. After all, the sovereign body in the United Kingdom is not Parliament, it is the Crown-in-Parliament. As every first year law student knows, the last time Royal Assent was refused was in 1708 under Queen Anne when the Scottish Militia Bill was rejected on the advice of ministers, according to Munro (54). In 1914, George V very nearly withheld his assent to the Irish Home Rule Bill but was persuaded not to, again on ministerial advice.

The general rule is that prerogatives are exercised by the monarch on the advice of the government, and in particular the Prime Minister. At first sight, therefore, it might appear that all of the work done by backbench MPs might be to no avail because even if they manage to pilot a bill through the House of Commons and the House of Lords, the Government could simply advise the Queen to refuse Royal Assent to the bill.

Anne Twomey states that in relation to royal assent ‘the predominant academic view… is that the Sovereign… must act upon the advice of responsible ministers’ (The Veiled Sceptre 622-3). She uses the example of where a new government that has the confidence of the House and ‘objects to a bill passed… by a defeated predecessor… then its advice to refuse assent to a bill should be accepted’ (624). Elsewhere she argues that where a ‘serious error is discovered in the bill’ then refusal of assent may properly be advised (643).

Twomey is therefore crystal clear that the ministerial power to give advice on royal assent has not fallen into desuetude (30-35). Royal assent is not an exception to the general rule that prerogatives are exercised on advice. Munro agrees, arguing that the more accurate ‘formulation’ may be: ‘the Crown cannot refuse assent except on advice’ (82).

Twomey gives examples of the fact that the ‘Sovereign has… frequently and recently refused assent to bills passed by the legislatures of British colonies’. Even the British Government has advised refusal – and recently. It prepared to advise the Sovereign to refuse royal assent for a bill from New South Wales in 1980 which forced the NSW Government to let it lapse to prevent a formal refusal (638). Royal assent is not automatic.

Rodney Brazier argues that the ‘only circumstances in which the withholding of royal assent might be justifiable would be where the Government itself were to advise such a course’ (de Smith & Brazier Constitutional and Administrative Law 127). Brazier’s says elsewhere (LQR 2013) that ministers might advise the Queen to refuse assent where ‘a private member’s bill had passed both Houses, perhaps on a free vote but which ministers opposed’. Twomey suggests that this scenario is ‘more likely to arise in a hung Parliament’ (624).

Twomey also points out that Lindell ‘has given some of the closest attention to this issue’ and he makes the important point that in the end parliament ‘can move a vote of no confidence’ if assent is refused........”

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Old 5th Sep 2019, 07:44
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
In 1914, George V very nearly withheld his assent to the Irish Home Rule Bill but was persuaded not to, again on ministerial advice.
There is a "kicker" to that ... Assent was given, but on the grounds that a second bill, that became the Suspensory (Home Rule) Act was brought forward to delay the implementation of the Home Rule Act until after the war (btw, the Bill in question was the Thrid Home Rule Bill).

It would not surprise me if the European Withdrawl (no.6) Bill becomes the first to not receive asscent in just over 300 years.

JAS
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 08:51
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To further quote the paper - in reference to the changes to procedure over SO24 by the Speaker.

"It is astonishing to be living at a time when the Government could conceivably advise the Queen to exercise a prerogative that has not been used for 300 years. Furthermore, it could only happen if the House of Commons voted to suspend rules of procedure that have been in place for nigh on 150 years. We live in interesting times."
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 09:32
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Interesting times indeed.

I wonder who the author of the paper is suggesting is bound by the parliamentary rules of procedure. The monarch? Surely not. The individual ministers or PM? Perhaps, but are they bound by them outside of parliament i.e. in their capacity as the Government? What about ministers sitting within the Privy Council? Are they bound by such parliamentary procedure?

Just how robust are the procedures in question and what sanctions available if they are not followed? Given the UK’s “constitution” is in essence a collection of legal tradition and agreed procedure (bits of which are currently being ignored at present with zero consequences for those deciding to do so), if a government decides to play fast and loose, then, IMHO at least, all bets and precedents are off the table.

Mssr. Cummings has already been found in contempt of Parliament once. Just how many sleepless nights are being caused by the prospect of being found to be a repeat offender?

JAS
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 10:01
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If something has not been used for 300 years it is not really much of a precedent for anything. I am not certain our Finnish constitution is all that excellent but a constitution based on tradition?
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 10:33
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Originally Posted by Just a spotter View Post
Mssr. Cummings has already been found in contempt of Parliament once. Just how many sleepless nights are being caused by the prospect of being found to be a repeat offender?
Me Sir! Please Sir! I know that one!

0

(Which, I'm quite sure, is the answer you were expecting.)
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 11:15
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Although she can't say, I believe HM Queen wants us out and doesn't want Corbyn in charge.
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 11:20
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
Although she can't say, I believe HM Queen wants us out and doesn't want Corbyn in charge.
I believe you are wrong and a blue hat with golden stars reveals i am right...
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 11:23
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Originally Posted by ThorMos View Post
I believe you are wrong and a blue hat with golden stars reveals i am right...
she might have to go back to Denmark in case of no deal🤣
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 12:25
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Having just come back from my Grand Tour of this country, may I point out that there is a large but so far silent body out there that supports the Prime Minister in what he is attempting to do?

PS Just hoping that our Brexit negotiators have taken full briefcases over to Brussels. Or was it all just a bluff to persuade the EU to back down a little at the last moment? If so, a card that is no longer valid.
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 12:29
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There is not much to negotiate left on the side of the EU it seems.
No surprise: The UK announced the firm and final decision to leave first and then wanted negotiations about special requests. What is left to talk about? Scheduling maybe?
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 12:54
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While its amusing to think of the Brexiteers relying on the Queen to come to the rescue and force a no deal onto her subjects. Maybe she could surround Westminster with her palace guard? But I somehow doubt it.

While BJ won't let any lie go untold or refuse to stoop to any low. Even he might balk at using the Queen to force through a no deal. There has to be a limit even for this regime.

2019 is already an 'annus horriblius' for the lady. Asking her to further pitch her kingdom into chaos is simply too much.
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 13:11
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
PS Just hoping that our Brexit negotiators have taken full briefcases over to Brussels. Or was it all just a bluff to persuade the EU to back down a little at the last moment? If so, a card that is no longer valid.
Listening to commentators in Brussels, the British negotiators havenít even picked up the phone to book a hotel room, let alone packed their very light carry onís
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 13:47
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Since Cummings is running the show now I'm sure he wouldn't baulk at telling Boris to involve the Queen.

It's just a question of whether Boris has enough vestige of decency left to refuse.
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 14:27
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Originally Posted by ThorMos View Post
I believe you are wrong and a blue hat with golden stars reveals i am right...
I haven't a clue as to whom you are referring to, could you elucidate?
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 14:31
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
Having just come back from my Grand Tour of this country, may I point out that there is a large but so far silent body out there that supports the Prime Minister in what he is attempting to do?
And unfortunately a comparatively very small number of people calling themselves MPs are seeking to overturn the democratic decision of the electorate.
I voted to LEAVE full stop, not to leave 'with conditions'.
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 15:20
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
And unfortunately a comparatively very small number of people calling themselves MPs are seeking to overturn the democratic decision of the electorate.
I voted to LEAVE full stop, not to leave 'with conditions'.
Exactly, no where on the form we voted on does it state subject to conditions​​​​​​​

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Old 5th Sep 2019, 15:25
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I voted remain and Iím still appalled at the convolutions of parliament (-all in the name of democracy!!) to reverse the result.
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 15:37
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
I haven't a clue as to whom you are referring to, could you elucidate?
www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-40356113
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