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And this Idiot has his finger on the trigger, gawd help us all.

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And this Idiot has his finger on the trigger, gawd help us all.

Old 26th Aug 2019, 19:40
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And this Idiot has his finger on the trigger, gawd help us all.

The man is a raving idiot.

Using nuclear weapons to destroy hurricanes is not a good idea, a US scientific agency has said, following reports that President Donald Trump wanted to explore the option.

The Axios news website said Mr Trump had asked several national security officials about the possibility.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) said the results would be "devastating".

Mr Trump has denied making the suggestion.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49471093
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 19:57
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Standby to be moderated Nutloose - I have had posts deleted for such 'political' comments.

However, I completely agree with you - which will probably seal the deal
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 20:23
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"But what if the hurricane is over North Korea? Can I drop a bomb on it then?"
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 20:37
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Maybe not such a crazy idea if you read the original study from the 1950s.

1. High-level airbust (minimal fall-out) with most of the effects going high in the Stratosphere.
2. Use a ‘cleaner’ device that uses 98-99% fusion rather than the dirtier fission type.
3. Expect the effect to be either changing the course of the hurricane or significantly reducing wind speeds.
4. Only to be used where the Gamma radiation and EMP have minimal effect.

As ever, this is being used by Trump-haters to discredit him and ‘virtue signal’ rather than exploring the science. Personally, I hope that he is a transitory POTUS and there are some better candidates around the corner, but slagging him off for something that has been a theory for over 60 years is pretty poor journalism from our usual media outlets. Also, the link from NOAA is just an opinion and it would be nice to see further study to prove/disprove the theory using modern computer modelling. Hurricanes can kill 1,000s of people a year and so surely it is worth looking at however whacky it might sound?

Obviously, reducing greenhouse gases needs to happen to reduce the chances of Cat 5 hurricanes forming, but that won’t happen overnight.

Here is a link to the original study (see page 78): https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?...98;skin=mobile
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 20:43
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Well I never,, thanks for the link, the trouble is how the rest of the world would react, also when the original idea was mooted we didn't have loads of hitech equipment in orbit, will that be effected?
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 21:06
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Most sats are hardened for cosmic radiation from solar flares and the harshness of space - so I doubt the effects would be permanent. Maybe offline for a few minutes? In all truth, I don’t know, but surely that is what a study should look at?
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 21:32
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Absolute lunacy. What civilised country would ever explode a nuclear weapon in the atmosphere other than as a last resort when under attack.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 21:37
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He is my hero
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 21:40
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The energy involved in a typical hurricane is many time greater than any atomic weapon. My recollection is that studies a long time ago suggested that some modification might be possible, but only by using many megatons of near simultaneous explosions. The predicted effects were uncertain and the anticipated fallout substantial, even using 'clean' weapons. Hence no trials were considered further,unsurprisingly.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 22:32
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Now it's a long time since I studied meteorology, and on top of being distinctly average, my memory is now a factor. But I'm pretty sure that in neither my thermodynamics, dynamics nor air pollution meteorology courses that lobbing nuclear weapons into a weather system was covered as an accepted geo-engineering technique. Now, it could just be a lack of imagination and science has moved on some since then, but I'd still have questions about this.

No doubt the issue of fall out in the immediate area has been considered; nuclear detonation - dispersal of clouds - associated dispersal of nuclear contaminated aerosol. Of course, if you do this well over the ocean then fine; but if it is so far from civilisation then why bother? If it's close to landfall, well, you could just hope it dies down once it makes landfall or you're going to have to explain to the CIVPOP why they now have to deal with fall out on top of losing their homes. And then there's stratospheric circulation models; detonate a device at high alt in mid latitudes, and it will probably stay up there for a couple of years before the circulatory system deposits it at the Poles. Cue glow in the dark polar bears and grumpy eco-warriors.

I can't believe I've just spent 5 minutes even thinking about this!
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 22:40
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet View Post
Most sats are hardened for cosmic radiation from solar flares and the harshness of space - so I doubt the effects would be permanent. Maybe offline for a few minutes? In all truth, I don’t know, but surely that is what a study should look at?
Most satellites are not hardened against high altitude nuclear events. They’d be destroyed by such a thing.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 22:59
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I observe without comment that if you try to search for "does trump have dementia" Google somehow magically stops providing suggestions when you get to the "d". If you type the whole word you do get a range of articles found.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 23:00
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The energy involved in a typical hurricane is many time greater than any atomic weapon
Butterfly wings....
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 23:04
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Nutloose, this particular item has been introduced into the US politics hamsterwheel. Given crab's post, you could probably ask a mod to move it there, but I'll suggest that we try and keep it on topic to the idea:
what, you can nuke a hurricane? Really?

The idea of nuking a cyclonic storm sees to me an interesting thought exercise at the least (Per Lima Juliet's point) and maybe the topic can be engaged in without it devolving into that political nonsense.

If I were to bet on the pros and cons, I think I'd bet on MSbarratt's concern, and think of what that would do to the global connection the PPRuNe now enjoys.

The other thing that has my engineering side of my brain working is something like this

A tropical cyclone is an immense collection of energy running amok and moving in a particular direction. Adding the effects of a thermonuclear explosion adds more energy into that system. If that thermo nuclear explosion doesn't have a shaped or discrete attenutation effect that is both predictable and reproducible, aren't you only making it worse by adding more energy into that system?

The other matter is "Nuclear radiation spread over a very wide area. Is this a brilliant idea or a poor one?"
Discuss.
If the rain eventually falling down is radioactive, or contaminated with radioactive discharge, what does that do to ground water? Plant life? et cetera ...

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 27th Aug 2019 at 15:59.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 23:32
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Cape Keraudren Nuclear Port Proposal

Not related to weather, but this little gem was being kicked around back in the 60's as part of Operation Plowshare.
It is of particular interest to me as I was an early employee at Goldsworthy mine for which this port excavation was proposed.
All to save the expense of about 80 km of railway line.

Keraudren Nuclear Excavation

Particularly interesting is Fulbright's statement towards the bottom of the document that his primary concern with the uncontrolled results of an earlier test was
not with the question of whether the radioactive debris that may have gone into Canada was of a dangerous Level
In the end, this was all constrained by the Limited Nuclear Test Ban Treaty of that time; something that we no longer need, it seems.
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 01:48
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Originally Posted by WingNut60 View Post
In the end, this was all constrained by the Limited Nuclear Test Ban Treaty of that time; something that we no longer need, it seems.
One can thank the staffing process for that, I suppose.
The question remains, though, who signed it and who still complies with it?
On Topic:
If a big typhoon heads toward the Philippines, would Mr Duterte ask his new friends, the Chinese, to take a shot at it? (I'll bet the under on that, but who knows?)
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 02:15
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Every time we attempt to subvert mother nature we move one step closer to the deep end of the cess pit.
In this case, it would probably be a reverse three and a half somersaults with tuck.
Very impressive but you still end up in the cess pit.
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 06:52
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Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, an unnamed source. Of course, then it must be true. Axios the news site was launched in 2017.

Last edited by DroneDog; 27th Aug 2019 at 07:05.
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 07:33
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Imagine the NOTAM
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 08:03
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A classic example of how false news works!
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