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Sir Kim Darroch resigns -: Why ?

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Sir Kim Darroch resigns -: Why ?

Old 12th Jul 2019, 10:02
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ehwatezedoing View Post

No kidding lol

Sad backward time though.
Tell the truth and your loose your job, lie every single day and get to be a president...
Lying wasn't invented after US Presidential elections in 2016.
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 13:43
  #42 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Lying wasn't invented after US Presidential elections in 2016.
Must acknowledge Nixon and Clinton have recently set a fairly low bar though !
Be lucky
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 15:04
  #43 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Lying wasn't invented after US Presidential elections in 2016.
you missed the part saying every single day.
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 17:43
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ehwatezedoing View Post

you missed the part saying every single day.
Not in the slightest.

2 1/2 yrs into Trump administration he has not nuked anybody, started any major wars but instead has talked to North Korea, stopped US getting more heavily involved in Syria and not supplied Ukraine with the thousands of troops promised by the Dems for a war.

You may not like it but the parents and family members who would have potentially had to mourn their lost kin under HRC will be thankful.
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 17:47
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps Trump wants to increase the size of his golf courses by buying up the old country, and Boris is just the man to sell it, just like he sold our Ambassador down the river. What ever political persuasion you, are there is something deeply wrong in English society at the moment, and I do not just mean Brexit as that is just one thing, but values and norms seem to have been challenged, sometimes for no apparent reason but almost just for devilment, and I think England is poorer for it.

Cavorting cheetah
Are you mad ? I think German intelligence would love to have the skill and tech to intercept coded e-mails to HMG even if not used, but they do not have the resource.

On that unhappy note its time to go find a stiff drink !!

Regards
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 17:56
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Once trump said he would not deal with the ambassador anymore he was essentially out of a job.

Nothing left for him but to step down.

It it looks like the only person who has done wrong here was the leaker. Trump rightly aggrieved at the tone of the message. The ambassador rightly sent his opinion of the new government to his superiors rightly feeling that is was safe and secure
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 17:59
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Not in the slightest.

2 1/2 yrs into Trump administration he has not nuked anybody, started any major wars but instead has talked to North Korea, stopped US getting more heavily involved in Syria and not supplied Ukraine with the thousands of troops promised by the Dems for a war.

You may not like it but the parents and family members who would have potentially had to mourn their lost kin under HRC will be thankful.
Well said Racedo. It's real easy to criticise Trump simply because he doesn't conform to the accepted norms.

But he never pretended to be anyone else, his behaviours since becoming POTUS have been exactly the same as those exhibited during the campaign trail, upon which he was elected.

I dont like or agree with many of his viewpoints but, as Racedo says, hes actually started a damn sight less wars than Clinton would have done.

Whether he can continue to exercise restraint with Iran will probably be his biggest test on the global stage.
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 19:36
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Saw today Boris is getting the blame for Darroch's resignation. That is so ridiculous it's almost criminal. Once the leak was out Darroch was doomed and could not possibly be ambassador anywhere, (except maybe Iran if they ever have one again.)

He may have been telling the truth, or only his opinion. It does not matter. Really as a diplomat he should have been able to express his opinion in language that did not show his personal antipathy so openly. Granted most of what we read was interpreted by the newspapers but if his language was even close to what we heard his words displayed his personal contempt. Not good and he could not possibly continue to improve GB relations with a major head of state afterwards.
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 21:05
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChrisVJ View Post
Saw today Boris is getting the blame for Darroch's resignation. That is so ridiculous it's almost criminal. Once the leak was out Darroch was doomed and could not possibly be ambassador anywhere, (except maybe Iran if they ever have one again.)

He may have been telling the truth, or only his opinion. It does not matter. Really as a diplomat he should have been able to express his opinion in language that did not show his personal antipathy so openly. Granted most of what we read was interpreted by the newspapers but if his language was even close to what we heard his words displayed his personal contempt. Not good and he could not possibly continue to improve GB relations with a major head of state afterwards.
As a diplomat he should be able to say whatever he wants, however he wants, in secure diplomatic documents safe in the knowledge that the contents will not be leaked to the press. Whoever is responsible for the leak should be getting twitchy now, official police investigation underway.
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 21:05
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChrisVJ View Post
Saw today Boris is getting the blame for Darroch's resignation. That is so ridiculous it's almost criminal.
Well clearly Darroch resigned of his own free will. So to that extent, nobody else is "to blame".

But when the likely future PM fails to take the opportunity to voice his support for your position, your days are pretty well numbered.

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Old 12th Jul 2019, 21:29
  #51 (permalink)  
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Should Boris have been required to offer his support to a diplomat that he (Boris) had no inclination to want as Ambassador?
As stated, Darroch was doomed once his opinion (however justified) was made public, and, particularly once Trump had declared Darroch to be persona non grata, there was no going back and he could not be saved whatever Boris said or did.
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 21:38
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
Should Boris have been required to offer his support to a diplomat that he (Boris) had no inclination to want as Ambassador?
As stated, Darroch was doomed once his opinion (however justified) was made public, and, particularly once Trump had declared Darroch to be persona non grata, there was no going back and he could not be saved whatever Boris said or did.
That's true of course, but Boris could and should have publicly declared his support for a very distinguished public servant who was forced to resign through no fault of his own. Theresa May did so, but of course she had no need to grovel to Trump as Boris feels obliged to do.

No doubt Trump will feel satisfied with the way that the two countries' future relationship is heading. Ractopamine pork anyone?
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 22:59
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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As a so called brilliant diplomat, after all , Ambassador to the United States is considered to be the pinnacle of diplomatic postings, I was surprised at the poor quality and one might say undiplomatic use of English used to express his opinions. Whether the language has been manipulated by the newspaper in question I donít know.

Of course he had to resign, no real choice, all sorts of shenanigans going on behind the scenes and as for the chap, a senior civil servant, who accuses Boris of throwing him under a bus... I,m afraid he has to go as well ... far too political .
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 09:09
  #54 (permalink)  
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Now the investigators are calling for the leaker to own up!
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 09:30
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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G-CPTN ; Finally, after wading through most of the thread, you, alone, got it in one. Look, it is the "Diplomatic Service" isn't it ?. And a top Diplomat in one of the most sort after positions in the Service should have known better. You have to watch your motor mouth ON and OFF duty. He was very undiplomatic , albeit in private, got recorded and got leaked. Bye .Bojo is utterly correct & Hunt is a clot for suggesting that he would be kept on under his Premiership. You insult the President of the United States and get kept on. Clowns ! Nevermind, the Old Pal's brigade will come to the rescue.
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 10:01
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmmm. I wonder whether the next holder of that prestigious post will also have a degree in Zoology?
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 10:06
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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If only Sir Kim had realised what a spiffing chap Donald is, and sent back suitably glowing reports about him and his administration, then we'd all have been able to sleep easier in our beds.
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 10:08
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jack D View Post
As a so called brilliant diplomat, after all , Ambassador to the United States is considered to be the pinnacle of diplomatic postings, I was surprised at the poor quality and one might say undiplomatic use of English used to express his opinions. Whether the language has been manipulated by the newspaper in question I donít know.
Either you are the leaker, or you havenít read the Mailís article - Original Mail on Sunday article They only use snippets from the cables, a single sentence here and there, and most of the information is paraphrased. Analysis of the level of Darrochís use of English is therefore somewhat flawed. However nice try at avoiding the real issues.

The cables need to be looked at through the prism of them being from 2017, when even many Trump supporters would acknowledge a degree of chaos in the early days of Trumpís White House, with turf battles and hiring and firings happening frequently. Bannon v Jared/Ivanka would just be one example as they all tried to get Trumpís ear. The other main issue for foreign governments was to assess whether this was going to be the way things were for the next 4/8 years, or just Ďteething troublesí. Either way, if an ambassador now has to write briefings on the basis that they may appear in the press then that reduces their effectiveness dramatically.

Next is Trumpís response, and how to deal with it. He undeniably threw a strop about it all, at which point the British government needed to decide whether it was a storm in a tea cup or likely to do lasting damage with trade treaty negotiations coming up. May and Hunt seemed to think Trump would get over it, and so were able to express support, no doubt helped by the knowledge that Darroch would be retired by Christmas, while Boris for whatever reason refused to give even lukewarm backing. The thought that a diplomat shouldnít have his career politicised only came out as the excuse for this afterwards, presumably after the Boris spin doctors got involved in damage limitation. Even Boris now acknowledges that he should have done better - for a guy who has made waffle and bluster into an art form you would have thought he could have come up with a sentence that gave support without winding Trump up further.

That he didnít raises 2 possibilities- either there is history between Darroch and Boris from the latterís Foreign Secretary days, or he wanted Darroch replaced for whatever reason (Brexit related, or currying favour with Trump perhaps) and saw the opportunity.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, should a President of any country be dictating who gets to be an ambassador from another country. Imagine if the UK ambassador to the Russiaís cables were leaked, saying that Putin was a brainless maniac who struggled to understand words of more than 4 letters. If Putin then demanded he was sacked, and the U.K. government complied would this have had the same reaction from the folks supporting Trump in the current spat? I suspect no.

And after all this the theories as to why someone leaked in the first place remain very thin on the ground.
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 12:32
  #59 (permalink)  
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Trumpís response, and how to deal with it. He undeniably threw a strop about it all, at which point the British government needed to decide whether it was a storm in a tea cup or likely to do lasting damage with trade treaty negotiations coming up.
Yes, look at it from Trump's, or any one else in the same position. If you don't respond and rebut you are tacitly accepting that your critic was correct. The critic could even be prosecuted for slander. Simply retiring 6 months early might be the least worse outcome.
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 12:59
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Law of Unexpected Consequences. It is suspected that the leaker's motive was to damage people seen as against Brexit. The outcome however may well be to further weaken Bozza's position as PM by allowing him to be exposed to the wider electorate as the charlatan that he is. He hasn't handled this well at all and his clumsy attempt at claiming that he had no effect on the ambassadors decision to resign has been exposed as yet another lie. Boris is damaged goods before he becomes PM. It will be interesting to see the final outcome of which PM is worst, Cameron, May or Boris. My half crown is firmly on the latter.
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