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Amnesty for what happened in NI

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Amnesty for what happened in NI

Old 29th May 2019, 17:08
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Lee Clegg was the Para convicted in 1991/2 for the shooting of two Joyriders on 30th September 1990 (the one where a bunch of Paras then beat up one of their guys to make it look like he had been run over before they opened fire in front of a RUC officer...Who Shopped them!!!). The two victims were Martin Peake (17) and Karen Reilly (18).

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Old 29th May 2019, 17:15
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MAINJAFAD View Post
Lee Clegg was the Para convicted in 1991/2 for the shooting of two Joyriders on 30th September 1990 (the one where a bunch of Paras then beat up one of their guys to make it look like he had been run over before they opened fire in front of a RUC officer...Who Shopped them!!!). The two victims were Martin Peake (17) and Karen Reilly (18).
Since when have Para's not been members of British Army ?
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Old 29th May 2019, 18:17
  #23 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Racedo, accurate as the url is it is you that is wrong. The original statement that only one 15 year old was killed is correct. You have conflated a much later incident. The point of relevance is that incident, investigation, conviction and imprisonment were contemporary. The present situation had a nonsense. We are not talking of a cold case revival where suspect had now been identified. All relevant evidence was available them but no action taken.

This was 47 years ago and it was probably political expedient to do nothing. If action had been taken half a century ago, would the Army have been as effective as it was for the next quarter century. Today it is only the "young squadie" trained to exercise lethal force who remains alive and in the frame. The establishment that put peace making shock troops on the ground in a peace keeping force are to blame.
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Old 29th May 2019, 18:31
  #24 (permalink)  
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Politicians should be made to say why they made their decisions:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill...tephen_Melrose

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Old 29th May 2019, 18:47
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Racedo, accurate as the url is it is you that is wrong. The original statement that only one 15 year old was killed is correct. You have conflated a much later incident. The point of relevance is that incident, investigation, conviction and imprisonment were contemporary. The present situation had a nonsense. We are not talking of a cold case revival where suspect had now been identified. All relevant evidence was available them but no action taken.

This was 47 years ago and it was probably political expedient to do nothing. If action had been taken half a century ago, would the Army have been as effective as it was for the next quarter century. Today it is only the "young squadie" trained to exercise lethal force who remains alive and in the frame. The establishment that put peace making shock troops on the ground in a peace keeping force are to blame.
3 people were killed as joyriders, age is irrelevant.

Squaddies in the case of the 2 shot in 1990's were not under threat, it had already passed them.
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Old 29th May 2019, 19:06
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He and his daughter were innocent and not joyriders.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...T-GERMANY.html
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Old 29th May 2019, 19:24
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
3 people were killed as joyriders, age is irrelevant.

Squaddies in the case of the 2 shot in 1990's were not under threat, it had already passed them.
true and Clegg paid the penalty.
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Old 29th May 2019, 19:29
  #28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DON T View Post
He and his daughter were innocent and not joyriders.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...T-GERMANY.html
different rules. We abide by the rule of law. In the current case it is so long ago that it is doubtful that any trial would serve the public interest. I submit that at the time it was not in the Government interest to prosecute.
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Old 29th May 2019, 19:48
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
different rules. We abide by the rule of law. In the current case it is so long ago that it is doubtful that any trial would serve the public interest. I submit that at the time it was not in the Government interest to prosecute.
That seems to be the problem. Different rules for different sides. My daughter, who is now in her thirties still asks why she had a man with a gun on her school bus and why daddy had to get onto his hands and knees before we got in the car.
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Old 29th May 2019, 23:16
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
true and Clegg paid the penalty.
He was allowed back into the Army after a criminal conviction.
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Old 29th May 2019, 23:21
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
different rules. We abide by the rule of law. In the current case it is so long ago that it is doubtful that any trial would serve the public interest. I submit that at the time it was not in the Government interest to prosecute.
Had the Govt of the day done its job including Court Martialling people who had broken the law then many of the deaths form then to 1998 could have been avoided.

Instead it was a whitewash, as was Ballymuprhy and people got away with murder which meant there was no way the other side was going to sit back.

Stating "We abide by the rule of law" and then justifying why Govt didn't act is not observing any rule of law.
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Old 30th May 2019, 00:02
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Had the government of the day done its job and ensured that the Catholic population was treated equally and not allowed discrimination against them in housing, employment and civil rights then the troubles probably wouldn't have happened in the first place.
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Old 30th May 2019, 09:40
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
Had the government of the day done its job and ensured that the Catholic population was treated equally and not allowed discrimination against them in housing, employment and civil rights then the troubles probably wouldn't have happened in the first place.
Yes but there was 50 years of that pre Bloody Sunday.

Sending army in, in 1969 was to protect Catholics from war by NI Statelet, people realised very quickly that army were taking the side of the people who were doing this to them. The outcome was inevitable as nothing was going to change.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:02
  #34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
He was allowed back into the Army after a criminal conviction.
So? Your point, or just stating a fact?
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:08
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
So? Your point, or just stating a fact?
SInce when do services allow people back in with Criminal convictions.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:22
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This written by a former army officer and Tory.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.iri...325%3fmode=amp

Like it or not the British army is held to a higher standard than terrorists. An amnesty for soldiers in Northern Ireland would mean an amnesty for terrorists who are still being investigated for their crimes.
That's a win for terrorism.
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Old 30th May 2019, 16:25
  #37 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
SInce when do services allow people back in with Criminal convictions.
Not just from when they allowed Clegg back.

Some years earlier, convicted of ABH and sentenced to 200 hours community service. His movements were restricted while he served his sentence but later promoted to sqn ldr and awarded an MBE.
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Old 30th May 2019, 16:54
  #38 (permalink)  
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.iri...325%3fmode=amp

The above article is wrong in essence, which doesn't help. The author states that the British troops did not come under fire in Londonderry, a popularly held myth up until Martin McGuinness publicly admitted that he probably fired the first shot. With such blatant inaccuracies the rest of the article's claims fall into serious doubt.
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Old 30th May 2019, 20:36
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Originally Posted by parabellum View Post
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.iri...325%3fmode=amp

The above article is wrong in essence, which doesn't help. The author states that the British troops did not come under fire in Londonderry, a popularly held myth up until Martin McGuinness publicly admitted that he probably fired the first shot. With such blatant inaccuracies the rest of the article's claims fall into serious doubt.
And there goes the false news. Soldier F shot dead two unarmed civilians. What McGuinness did or didn't do is irrelevant. Not one British soldier was shot or injured. 14 unarmed civilians were murdered by the Paras. No one disputes this except maybe you.
But they were only Paddies.
​​​​They had it coming didn't they? Ungrateful wretches who didn't bow to their English masters.
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Old 30th May 2019, 21:30
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Meanwhile General Mike Jackson, a man I admire BTW is being questioned at the inquest in Belfast into the 'Ballymurphy massacre'. Stated that the British army 'we don't do conspiracies'. It was greeted by 'muted laughter' from the public gallery.
Muted laughter. Not angry denunciation perhaps because the relatives of the dead expect no more than lies and equivocation.

Didn't you hear of this inquest? Well it's in Belfast looking into the behaviour of the British army back in the day. Shooting Paddies not exactly mainstream news on the 'mainland'.
Try finding the story on Sky news or the BBC beyond the NI section.

And you wonder why the there's such bitterness.
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