Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Borris next PM?

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Borris next PM?

Old 29th Jun 2019, 22:18
  #801 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 167
CJ
You presume ( as do so many remainers ) to know why people voted to leave the EU. You cannot possibly know the many and varied reasons why people voted as they did. To describe leavers in the terms you've used just shows ignorance.
I voted to leave the EU because, primarily, I did not want to be in a United States of Europe dominated by Germany and France. Do you deny that that is the way the EU has evolved from what was, originally supposed to be a trading bloc ? In fact I voted, in the 1975 referendum, to stay in the then Common Market - it made sense, at the time, to be part of a trading arrangement. Of course we were lied to then as was subsequently admitted by the appalling Heath.
The issue of sovereignty is one which remainers constantly avoid. Perhaps if they'd have dealt with it in 2016 the result might have been more what they wanted. They failed to convince the voters then and have said nothing since to change minds.
papajuliet is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2019, 22:30
  #802 (permalink)  
EstŠ servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 0
In the lying stakes there can surely be no greater culprits than those MPs who voted to uphold and enact the referendum results and then went and did precisely the opposite for their own personal gain or satisfaction.
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 00:40
  #803 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Darkest Surrey
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by GLIDER 90 View Post
Well when the next pm is decided we then should concentrate on getting rid of Corbyn & co !!!
So you dislike democracy and favour dictatorship of one party.
racedo is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 02:27
  #804 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,604
CJ

Do you know the biggest difference between you and I?

I donít judge all remainers as a single group. And I certainly donít judge them by a stereotype propagated by the media.

Some remainers are ideologists and believe wholeheartedly in the EU. Some wanted to remain for purely selfish reasons. Some were simply happy with the status quo. There are many other reasons.

Some, like yourself, are effectively narrow minded bigots (itís funny because thatís how you like to think of brexiteers) who believe the oft trotted out lies that you have read somewhere.

Do you know what it is called when you judge a group of people based on the actions of a few? Or to judge them based on a preconceived idea with no actual proof?

Iím not sure why people like yourself find it hard to believe that people on BOTH sides of the argument voted for a variety of reasons and did their research.

I have no problem with anybody on either side of the argument. But please, for the love of Christ, stop trying to tell me why I voted for Brexit.

I wonít repeat myself but if you can be bothered you could read back a few pages and read my previous explanations.

BV
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 04:14
  #805 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 919
If Boris Is desperate for votes, he need look no further than, who else but ?.....Nige ! for how to embrace technology ....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-social-media

The UK......as viewed by Boris.....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...diwork-cartoon

An occasional series of urban myths, designed to promote fantasy rather than fact, and embraced by those who accumulate air miles on Porcine Air......

"the Earth is flat "

" the Moon landings were faked ".

" the Loch Ness monster "

"the United States of Europe "

Plus the chances of any promises and statements made by Boris being factual.........

The real question here, is, will Boris still be entitled to have the slobbering smirking fizzog displayed on the walls of No10 after just a short term let......?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...thdraw-support

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 30th Jun 2019 at 05:28.
Krystal n chips is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 08:12
  #806 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,583
BV, well said.

Why should opprobrium be heaped upon those who voted leave?

Surely it should be reserved for the indolent, lazy, ignorant, complacent eligible voters that could not be bothered to exercise their hard fought democratic right to vote?

Blame them for the mess; there is at least one person here who confessed to not voting.

I deliberately over egged my critique as there were those who were too ill to vote. Those unable to travel to a polling station. Those that had neglected to get a postal vote. Students registered at home but living away. Those on holiday. Those at work. Those expats eligible but got papers too late. And of course those for whom the indifferent deliberately failed to vote.

Of course all of the above applies to any election but we don't see marching in the streets where an MP is elected with a majority in single figures and thousands have not voted. That is democracy.

We lost (or won) direct your ire at the non-voters, at your MP who said they would honour your decision and then didn't.
​​​​​​
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 08:38
  #807 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 58
Apart from those of us who decided that insufficient information was available amongst all the lies and obfuscation to make a
choice. I must admit that No Deal didn't figure in my calculations simply because Leave told us that a good deal was the easiest thing in the world. Had it been a straight choice between leaving without a deal and remain the choice would have been an easy one.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 08:48
  #808 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 4,571
17,410,742 voters voted Leave at the referendum; 16,141,241 voted Remain. Of the remaining 12,984,020 eligible voters 25,359 spoiled their ballot papers and the rest were going to vote Leave but couldn't be bothered.
Prove me wrong?
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 09:41
  #809 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: God's Country
Posts: 111
Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Apart from those of us who decided that insufficient information was available amongst all the lies and obfuscation to make a
choice. I must admit that No Deal didn't figure in my calculations simply because Leave told us that a good deal was the easiest thing in the world. Had it been a straight choice between leaving without a deal and remain the choice would have been an easy one.
Yet you you believed all the predictions that George Osbourne spoke about.

Taken from Global Britain. In Nov 2017

To be fair to George Osborne, he was not alone with clear and very gloomy forecasts, albeit amongst official forecasting bodies there was a remarkable groupthink. However, it is worth reminding ourselves exactly what has happened over the last 500 days.

Firstly, the economy did not decline by 3.6% as promised. It has grown in each and every quarter by an average of 0.4% per quarter since the referendum with an almost boring consistently. Today GDP is 2.5% higher in real terms than it was the day before the referendum. In other words that is 6.1% better than the Treasury forecast, equivalent to £135bn of extra annual production over their estimate, or just over £2000 for every man, woman and child.

Next, the Treasury forecast the loss of 500,000 jobs with a year of the vote. Actually over the last 500 days since the referendum, 317,000 new jobs have been created, or 634 new jobs each and every day since we voted to Leave.

There is more. In fact nearly every prediction he made was false(lie). He was in a position to actually know the financial consequences. Don't forget his predictions were going to happen just because there was a leave vote, not actual waiting for the UK to leave. And you wonder why the comments, fake news and project fear became so well used!

There were predictions/lies told on both sides.
The Nip is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 10:21
  #810 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: back out to Grasse
Posts: 108
Len McCluskey stated on "this morning" that "Comrade Corbyn is as fit as a fiddle" and quite capable of the role of PM. The rumours are scandalous gossip.

Anyone seen him out on a bike lately, or in his running kit?, definitely looks well past his sell by date to me (and yes, I am well past mine, but then I am not running for high office).

IG
Imagegear is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 10:43
  #811 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,331
Um.. I know times have changed but I wasn't aware appearing to be fit was a requirement for high office...though I appreciate nowadays perspiring aspiring leaders going out for a run in full view of the press has become somewhat fashionable...

Do we have any pictures of e.g. Churchill or Thatcher out for a morning run around Westminster?
wiggy is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 11:09
  #812 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,583
Didn't Kennedy start the trend but Johnson and Nixon managed to resist the urge? Likewise Wilson and Callaghan though Heath went rather more upmarket with his yacht and an orchestra. Did Major play cricket or just watch it?

Hill walking on the other hand May seem prosaic by comparison.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 11:13
  #813 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,629
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Um.. I know times have changed but I wasn't aware appearing to be fit was a requirement for high office...though I appreciate nowadays perspiring aspiring leaders going out for a run in full view of the press has become somewhat fashionable...

Do we have any pictures of e.g. Churchill or Thatcher out for a morning run around Westminster?
Or Heath, Wilson, Major, Blair or Brown?? Or indeed Merkel, Schmidt, Mitterand, Trump??

I am sure "top civil servants" have opinions, often not flattering, about their political masters, and would be political masters, but generally they keep them to themselves. What is different here is that one or two rather less scrupulous members of their fraternity with a political agenda has gone to the press.

A bit like Boris Johnson's neighbours, although I suspect that in their case there was no pretense of political neutrality.

ATNotts is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 11:18
  #814 (permalink)  
419
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: London
Posts: 396
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Um.. I know times have changed but I wasn't aware appearing to be fit was a requirement for high office..
Would you want someone in charge of the country, possibly for the next 4+ years who wasn't physically and mentally up to the task? It's without a doubt, a very stressful position so surely it makes sense to have someone in that position who can give it 100% .

Take Angela Merkel as an example.
She is currently the German Chancellor and has recently been showing signs of not being very well. Whilst in power she can (and probably will) get medical treatment for any conditions that she has but I wonder how many German people would vote for her re-election is she appeared to be the same just before any election.

As this is an aviation themed forum, I'll ask this.
What would be your reaction if you knew or suspected that a pilot or engineer was at work whilst physically or mentally impaired and they were trying to hide this fact and you were of the opinion that it could affect their ability to do their job correctly?
Why should it be any different for someone who is in such a position when their decisions and actions can have major and far reaching repercussions for many decades to come?
419 is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 11:28
  #815 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,583
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Or Heath, Wilson, Major, Blair or Brown?? Or indeed Merkel, Schmidt, Mitterand, Trump??.
As I said, Heath was a yachtsman, MacMillan shot, I think we saw Blair in shorts 😀, Trump and Obama golfed.

I think the most disastrous fitness example was Carter.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 11:34
  #816 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,331
Originally Posted by 419 View Post
Would you want someone in charge of the country, possibly for the next 4+ years who wasn't physically and mentally up to the task? It's without a doubt, a very stressful position so surely it makes sense to have someone in that position who can give it 100% .
My comment wasn't about being fit to do the job, read it again- it was "I wasn't aware appearing to be fit was a requirement for high office"..I emphasised the word "appearing" in my post...

Running around the block getting hot and sweaty occasionally or looking like an elephant on a bike for the sake of the cameras doesn't prove anything about your fitness.

I certainly don't disagree with your comments about objective medical fitness and aviation, but that wasn't the point I was making.
wiggy is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 12:51
  #817 (permalink)  
419
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: London
Posts: 396
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
My comment wasn't about being fit to do the job, read it again- it was "I wasn't aware appearing to be fit was a requirement for high office"..I emphasised the word "appearing" in my post...
But surely if you don't appear to be be fit to do the job (whether you actually are fit or not), people are going to start asking questions.

If you are not fit to drive because of consuming excess alcohol then the police will (hopefully) rightly stop you from driving and even if not affected by alcohol but only appear to be, the police will still carry out their checks.
If I was at work and someone was of the opinion that it appeared to them that I was unfit to carry out my job safely or properly, I would have no problem with them voicing their concerns either to me to to one of my managers.
If I was okay then I would be able to show this and if I did have a problem that I was either unaware of or was trying to hide, then hopefully the report would get acted on.
419 is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 13:36
  #818 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,331
OK...Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour? We've gone well off piste here so I'll have one final go at getting this across.

This all started when I addressed imagegear's comment that:

Len McCluskey stated on "this morning" that "Comrade Corbyn is as fit as a fiddle" and quite capable of the role of PM. The rumours are scandalous gossip.

Anyone seen him out on a bike lately, or in his running kit?, definitely looks well past his sell by date to me (and yes, I am well past mine, but then I am not running for high office).
IMHO wearing running kit/being seen out on a bike is not an indicator in itself of fitness or longevity. Imagegear is I think correct in his observation that Mr Corbyn isn't seen out running/cycling, but that doesn't mean one cannot assume he is any less fit than Mr Hunt/Mr Johnson. He may well maintain an adequate level of fitness for the job of being a senior politician by working on his allotment, out of view of the press.

Err..and that's it; Aviation medicals, being mindful of alcohol consumption, reporting concerns to managers are all things I'm very very aware of from my day job but I'm not sure what that has got to do with my response to imagegear's observation.

HTH explain it, I'm off for a swim...
wiggy is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 13:45
  #819 (permalink)  
419
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: London
Posts: 396
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
OK...Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour? We've gone well off piste here so I'll have one final go at getting this across.
Argument?
I thought that the whole purpose of forums such as this was so that people could post and discuss their opinions and if everyone had the same opinion, threads such as this one would be pointless.
419 is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2019, 13:53
  #820 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,604
Wiggy

I understood what you meant!

BV
Bob Viking is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.