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Borris next PM?

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Borris next PM?

Old 26th Jun 2019, 14:55
  #701 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Whether you agree with them or not, a large proportion of Brexit voters will have voted to leave because of the behaviour, perceived or not, of the EU.
The EU was blamed in Britain for everything immigration, crime and the shape of bananas. Anti EU false news was stock in trade for the yellow press for years. In fact one of the ringleaders was a certain journalist called Boris Johnson
It was in Brussels, for The Daily Telegraph, that he stumbled on the cause that would propel his career to the top: halting Britain’s integration into the European Union.

His secret weapon was humor. He began producing front-page scoops — “marmalade droppers,” as they are known in Britain — that mirrored the euroskeptic opinions of The Telegraph’s conservative readers: Sniffer dogs would be dispatched to regulate the smell of manure! Bureaucrats were planning a one-size-fits-all condom! The European Union would ban prawn-flavor potato chips!

Nigel Sheinwald, a former senior diplomat who served as the Foreign Office’s press secretary during that period, described Mr. Johnson’s reporting as “not well founded on facts. It was exaggerated, it was dishonest, and it massaged information to fit a narrative that he had preconceived.”

But it made him a brand. Charles Grant, who was posted in Brussels for The Economist newsmagazine, said Mr. Johnson seemed to adopt the anti-European argument for career reasons. “I felt for a long time that he didn’t believe what he wrote,” he said. “It was a game. For him, the game was, ‘How should I be a success Johnson, for his part, recalled it as the most exhilarating time in his career.
“Everything I wrote from Brussels — I was sort of chucking these rocks over the garden wall, and I listened to this amazing crash from the greenhouse next door over in England,” he said. “Everything I wrote was having this amazing, explosive effect on the Tory party, and it really gave me this, I suppose, rather weird sense of power.
Now this this man this charlatan is about to gain real power.

You like many leave voters genuinely believed you voted based on the facts. But you voted for a lie a big fat lie as often as not promoted by an inveterate liar who is about to become PM.

You've been conned.

Last edited by Steepclimb; 26th Jun 2019 at 15:10.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 14:58
  #702 (permalink)  
 
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Bob
That's a different issue.
For the perceived reasons you have stated, people voted to leave the EU. That's their democratic right, and so we will be leaving. I have no issue with what you have said.

​​​​​​But the situation now is that we are at last facing the consequences of leaving. Those consequences are a direct result of notifying our intention to leave and the resulting negotiation. The EU has not given us privileges to ease our exit which would have conflicted with their constitution, and there is no requirement for them to do so.

However, this should not matter at all to anyone who voted to leave, since as we have been told repeatedly the referendum question did not specify any sort of deal. People only voted to leave without regard to the consequences.

You got exactly what you voted for. Be happy.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 15:15
  #703 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Just read what you have written.

Whether you agree with them or not, a large proportion of Brexit voters will have voted to leave because of the behaviour, perceived or not, of the EU.

If the EU had been perfect then we almost certainly wouldn’t have voted to leave. We probably wouldn’t have had a referendum in the first place.

Brexit voters have to, and are probably happy to, own the decision to leave. But you cannot say the EU is blameless.

A bloated organisation that has over reached and become a self licking lollipop (and I firmly believe will not survive in the longer term) is what I voted to leave.

Of course you will disagree, as is your right. C’est la vie.

BV
Ok then, and this is not having a go at you, but, we hear this refrain, or similar,( underlined above) with frequent monotony.


So let me be a bit flippant here....do you, and others, think, that at 00 silly hrs one night in the near future, the EU will suddenly cease to exist, that (select currency of choice ) will be reinstated along with border crossings and controls in the nations that no longer have them, and that will be that " well we gave it a shot, didn't work, so see you at the reunion one day "......

More seriously, what do you, and others, feel will replace the EU if your much hoped for implosion occurs ?

Frankly, the only current member state, as we are still in, that will implode will be the UK ....which is my never humble opinion you understand, because our relationship with the EU is symbiotic as a participating member, not sat on the other side of the Channel hoping for some mystical deal(s) that will enable us to ( insert leave mantra of choice here ) become prominent across the globe again.

The last three years have shown the world the UK is inept and no amount of political schmoozing and glad handing is going to change that perception in a hurry.

And Boris, heaven forbid he does get elected, isn't going to change matters...... in fact, he'll probably exacerbate them .
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 15:24
  #704 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
There are probably a lot more within the EU who very, very much want to avoid a 'no deal' than the remoaners like to make out, let's just start here: Economy could contract in no-deal Brexit - Varadkar.
They are trying to be 'brave' about it and say "it would be Britain's decision if it leaves the European Union without a deal, not the EU's", but they are quite rightly worried. But it is simple for them, they can be 'fatalists' and take what comes, or they could could start talking about how things could work better for themselves and do something positively to try to influence their own futures in a good way. I.e., start thinking of how to avoid the risk to them of a 'no deal', such as reopening negotiations. Sorry, I forgot, their EU Masters won't allow them to do something so common-sense.
If Boris thinks the fear of a no deal will panic the EU including Ireland into handing over the the entire cake and give him what he wants. He is sadly mistaken. The fact that this absurd brinkmanship is considered a sensible strategy tells us all we need to know about how divorced from reality the Tories have become.

Any attempt to divide and conquer the 27 remaining countries is doomed to failure. Britain has used up all the goodwill it ever had.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 15:37
  #705 (permalink)  
 
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Further to the above as I posted there's a Tory MP, a Scot who ought to know better, actually saying that the EU will suffer more from a no deal than the UK. Ross Thompson is his name.
He actually believes that. Which simply proves how delusional the Tories have become.



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Old 26th Jun 2019, 16:14
  #706 (permalink)  
 
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Steepclimb, Sally, KnC

Firstly, Steepclimb, I have explained my reasons for voting before so shall not repeat myself. Suffice to say I didn’t believe any lies from the Leave campaign. It is you who have been conned by your branch of the media. I’m sure there are many who believed the big red fun bus and thought they could return to a world with straight bananas and square strawberries but I am not one of them.

Please don't think you know my motivations just because the Guardian has provided you with a stereotype.

Sally.

It remains to be seen if those that voted for Brexit will ever get what they voted for!

KnC

I don’t know how or when the EU may cease to exist but if Britain ever does leave I feel sure there are other nations who will watch with interest. I’m not even saying I hope it does crumble but I personally didn’t like the status quo.

I was asked to vote and I did. My involvement ended there.

As I hope you can see, I bear no animosity towards any of you. I don’t expect to change your mind any more than you will change mine.

Live and let live.

BV


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Old 26th Jun 2019, 18:13
  #707 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
... But you voted for a lie a big fat lie ...

You've been [were] conned.
The lie about the instant loss of a huge number of jobs and an emergency budget if there was a 'leave; vote. Or have you forgotten that lie? Funny old thing how people tend to forget the lies that were proven by events to be lies. Oh, and those lies were told by people actually in government.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 18:23
  #708 (permalink)  
 
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If all things were equal it wouldn't be so bad but just like communism it's a pipe dream, the EU is the Federal States Of Germany with a smattering of French thrown in. Not a union as was envisaged.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 19:15
  #709 (permalink)  
 
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KnC

And Boris, heaven forbid he does get elected, isn't going to change matters...... in fact, he'll probably exacerbate them .
I agree, in spades.

Last edited by jindabyne; 29th Jun 2019 at 09:56.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 20:09
  #710 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
If all things were equal it wouldn't be so bad but just like communism it's a pipe dream, the EU is the Federal States Of Germany with a smattering of French thrown in. Not a union as was envisaged.
Not the Fourth Reich mentality again! What about all the other members of the E.U.?
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 20:44
  #711 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
The lie about the instant loss of a huge number of jobs and an emergency budget if there was a 'leave; vote. Or have you forgotten that lie? Funny old thing how people tend to forget the lies that were proven by events to be lies. Oh, and those lies were told by people actually in government.
That was a lie. Typical of Cameron. I watched his speech around the Scottish referendum. I was actually surprised and even surprised that I was surprised at the number of lies he told in that one speech. One I remember was that you'd need a passport to cross the border and that proud Scottish regiments would be disbanded. Meanwhile the Irish don't need a passport to travel to Britain and there are two Irish regiments a hundred years after independence. Hmmm.

So it was a lie, so what? A bit like the red bus lie and all the other Brexit lies.

But I should point out one the UK is still in the EU as of today. The job losses were not immediate but they're happening.

But wait for November 1st. A no deal Brexit. Watch the job losses then and the emergency budget. You see the lie was that it would happen the day after the referendum. In reality it won't even happen the day after Brexit. But it will happen.

I'm not sure why you don't see that. You see Brexit far from being some kind of glorious release from servitude it will even with a deal propel the UK into years of uncertainty and economic stress. Well actually that's already happened. That wasn't predicted by anyone.

The shambles you see before you is a consequence of the absolute inability of the British political class to grasp the situation they find themselves in.

Yet you and the rest are confident these same incompetents will after Brexit usher in a bright new era of freedom and prosperity.

Boris Johnson: Prime Minister?

It's almost funny. Like an implausible political satire on TV. Except it's real.

Yes it was a lie. But it's also history. New lies are being told daily. The biggest is that Johnson has the answers. But his history of lies is worse than Cameron.

You are being lied to





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Old 26th Jun 2019, 21:34
  #712 (permalink)  
 
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There was a load of rubbish talked by BOTH sides prior to the referendum, Steepclimb and if you’re not prepared to concede that it only demonstrates a complete lack of reasonableness on your part.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 21:44
  #713 (permalink)  
 
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Orac:
More snake oil salesman than entrepreneur.......
Many thanks for that link. It made it even more galling to hear him on Radio 4 news at 15:00 telling us yet again how his being a whizz bang entrepreneur is his stellar quality that qualifies him as our next PM. I don't remember the exact words but the sound bite went something along the lines of "I am an entrepreneur. I am used to doing deal, I have the experience of sitting across a table doing the hard negotiating". And I had read that link just a short while before getting in my car and hearing that!
What a choice of candidates for the card carrying Tory to have to make and what a dismal future for the nation!
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 22:12
  #714 (permalink)  
 
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Compared to who, Kelvin? the worst of them still stands head and shoulders above Corbyn and his Marxist cronies.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 22:55
  #715 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
There was a load of rubbish talked by BOTH sides prior to the referendum, Steepclimb and if you’re not prepared to concede that it only demonstrates a complete lack of reasonableness on your part.
Absolutely. It cannot be denied. We live in a world where exaggeration and untruth is the norm. Particularly in politics these days. But nothing is immune, climate change, social issues and any other issue important or unimportant to people only seems to be discussed in over blown rhetoric.

However there is a difference. The remain supporters offered no pie in the sky future. They tried to point out the consequences of leaving without promoting the benefits of remaining. That was their mistake. Yes their dire warnings were made which haven't come true... yet. They foresaw the risks.

Yet no one foresaw the chaos that has ensued. Nor would anyone believe it..

As for the Leavers, they lied and promoted much that is undeliverable and they continue to do so. In fact they continue to make impossible promises on daily basis. The delusion on show is shocking. Unicorns indeed.

I'm not unreasonable. Both sides got it wrong during the referendum but I can't shift from the notion that leaving the EU is historic mistake. If the remain side emphasised that a bit more they might have won.

The truth is there are no winners. Remain or leave. The shock to the system will take many years to resolve.




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Old 26th Jun 2019, 23:08
  #716 (permalink)  
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Oh, I don't worry that an administration led by Hunt or Johnson would ever socially discriminate against the likes of me or indeed persecute me financially with malice or, ultimately, place me in a reeducation camp. I would make no such assumptions about the possibility of any of those things not happening under a Marxist government. Marxists governments have decided form in the less pleasant respects outlined above..
I fear that I myself would fare little better under a Fascist government for I have many friends and even bloodlines that would be considered undesirable. Luckily for what little remains of British democracy under its present récidiivant and corpuscular Parliament, there is precious little of that hatred about in the country.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 23:13
  #717 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
True enough, yet the Mayor of London says it's all good, the streets are 'safer'. I do wonder what particular illegal substances he may be taking, or maybe he's just a closet Tory?
https://www.statista.com/topics/4627/crime-in-london/
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Old 27th Jun 2019, 05:51
  #718 (permalink)  
 
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ShotOne: There are 2 candidates for the Tory Party leadership. Now explain the question you posed "compared to who".
Meanwhile, in his latest prattling, Hunt shows his entrepreneurial skills come from the proverbial Magic Money Tree manual. Cut taxes, spend more?
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Old 27th Jun 2019, 06:14
  #719 (permalink)  
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Seems Boris had been inspired by a well known soundtrack. ........apt really, because that was also a work of fiction.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...to-one-against

The link to last nights C4 News is also worth watching....the second item concerns Nige, not entirely relevant to Boris, but of equal standing when it comes to duplicity....

It's the third item about preparations for "no deal " that most certainly is relevant coming as they do from the remnants of the current Gov't.

And it was nice of Andrea to gush forth in praise of Boris, with a bit of modest self-promotion to boot.....wonder what she's been promised, or aspires to, should Boris find time from making model buses to consider her of course......

https://www.channel4.com/news/progra...019/06/26/1900

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 27th Jun 2019 at 06:26.
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Old 27th Jun 2019, 06:15
  #720 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48764832

JH: Well I think that 31 October come hell or high water is a fake deadline, because it's more likely to trip us into a general election before we've delivered Brexit, and that would hand the keys to Jeremy Corbyn and then we'd have no Brexit at all. But in my case how would I approach this. I think we'll know very soon well before 31st October. If there is a deal to be done along the basis I've said. If there isn't and if no deal is still on the table I've been very clear. I will leave the European Union without a deal. But I'm not going to do that if there's a prospect of a better deal and if I did it it would be with a heavy heart because businesses up and down the country would face a lot of destruction. I think it'd be very bad for the union, with Scotland where I was at the weekend… so I would do it though. But as a last resort.
So we've gone from a Brexit that didn't necessarily mean leaving the customs union, through a postulated Canada plus plus plus, through **** business, to now one of the two remaining candidates for PM seriously considering a course of action that he knows will (he uses "would", not might) cause UK business to "face a lot of destruction".

Is it any wonder why increasingly the "Brexit" project seems to look more like a cult than a sensible project.

UK politics and some UK politicians have truly stepped through the looking glass.
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