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Have we learn't nothing from the Grenfell tragedy??

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Have we learn't nothing from the Grenfell tragedy??

Old 19th Apr 2019, 01:04
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Have we learn't nothing from the Grenfell tragedy??

It appears not. This photo was sent to me by a friend. It was taken last week at a, approximately 11 storey high tower block, situated very close to the centre of Brentwood, Essex, UK., very close to the town centre..

Anyone know how you would be able to extinguish a fire, before it takes hold, with that useless piece of kit??

If the occupant of the flat at Grenfell, where the fire started, had access to a water hose, that worked, the tragedy may have been avoided.


Last edited by Dan_Brown; 19th Apr 2019 at 01:15.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 03:59
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Originally Posted by Dan_Brown View Post
It appears not. This photo was sent to me by a friend. It was taken last week at a, approximately 11 storey high tower block, situated very close to the centre of Brentwood, Essex, UK., very close to the town centre..

Anyone know how you would be able to extinguish a fire, before it takes hold, with that useless piece of kit??

If the occupant of the flat at Grenfell, where the fire started, had access to a water hose, that worked, the tragedy may have been avoided.

I'm sorry, what exactly are you trying to prove with this picture? I see a water stop cock, the red colour of which may or may not indicate it has something to do with fire fighting equipment, but there is no additional signage indicating it is a wet or dry riser.

It is padlocked, so what? This may be an deliberate anti-tamper device, if so then whoever needs to use it will have access to a key. If not then firemen tend to carry a universal key that opens anything.

Now, if you've quite finished trying to stir up trouble, either explain yourself in a calm civilised manner outlining exactly what you think the issue is or get back in your box!

End of broadcast
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 08:39
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If the occupant of the flat at Grenfell, where the fire started, had access to a water hose, that worked, the tragedy may have been avoided.
That's wrong on so many levels (pun not intended).
Water is not suitable for electrical fires.
How many flat dwellers have access to a hose? And with a suitable connector for that hydrant?
And if the hydrant had not been locked, how many flats would be flooded by inappropriate use or more likely by vandals?

But I see you have learn't another new use for the apostrophe.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 08:56
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As for vandalism, anyone caught vandalizing emergency equipment should be shot.

Oh that dangerous chemical called water? Well what about sprinklers leaking or flooding? Would the sprinkler systems, there're talking about would be selective and differentiate between electrical and wood fires for example, in which chemical is dispersed?

A hose or bucket distibuting.water is and has been the most basic and effective way to contain fire,

The answer of course is to run a huge court of enquiry, costing the tax payer millions, lasting years, nobody held to account and telling us what we already know. No doubt run by academics, such as the above poster. "Sacasm is the lowest form of will"

Last edited by Dan_Brown; 19th Apr 2019 at 09:23.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 09:16
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That's probably a wet riser, for use by the fire brigade only. Perfectly normal
​​​
Good luck to anyone attempting to fight a cooking oil or electrical fire with water.

Nothing to do with the rapid spread of the Grenfell Tower fire.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 09:39
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Originally Posted by Dan_Brown View Post
Anyone know how you would be able to extinguish a fire, before it takes hold, with that useless piece of kit??
Even if there was no padlock, how could you extinguish a fire with it?

Without a hose (something that any attending firecrew would have), it's useless and even if there was a hose nearby, it's not the sort of thing that any untrained member of the public should attempt to use.
Even though it's only a small padlock, it will help prevent unwanted operation and a padlock that size could be removed in seconds by any fireman/woman with or without a key.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 10:30
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Originally Posted by Dan_Brown View Post
As for vandalism, anyone caught vandalizing emergency equipment should be shot.
Guy with a hammer in an apartment block is attacking this, police immediately shoot him, you idea has worked.
Firemen turn up 3 minutes later to fight the fire and ask "Who shot our colleague Dave ?"
Dave lived in the block and was getting rid of the lock as he knew his colleagues would be there in a few minutes,
not dressed as a fireman because he at home.

Not unusual to witness a fire and guy joins from the crowd who is station crew but on leave and assists.
Legally not supposed to as not part of crew but they happy to have extra pair of hands and while not having all the
equipment he is not required to go and fight the fire but offer assistance to the station crew.

But hey lets just go round shooting people.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 11:05
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Vandalism usually takes place when there is no one to observe - let alone armed police.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 11:18
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Padlocking wet riser valves is normal practice and doesn't present a problem at all. The design is such that a firefighter can crop through it with the standard bolt croppers they carry, so it doesn't delay them at all. Leaving a wet riser valve unlocked would be pretty damned stupid, as sooner or later some idiot will turn it on and do thousands of pounds worth of damage.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 12:30
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Why not have a hose real (anyone remember them?) with valve connected to the water riser? People who dwell in these blocks would have EASY AND QUICK access, which is imperative!. By the time the Fire brigade pitch up it would be too late, as was so well demonstrated at Grenfell!!

Instead the Fire Authorities instruct dwellers to stay indoors and cook . FFS!!!

Last edited by Dan_Brown; 19th Apr 2019 at 12:50.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 12:38
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Originally Posted by Dan_Brown View Post
Why not have a hose real (anyone remember them?) with valve connected to the water riser? People who dwell in these blocks would have EASY AND QUICK access, which is imperative!. By the time the Fire brigade pitch up it would be too late.
Possibly because the residents are not trained fire fighters? And might not understand (as has been pointed out a couple of times already) the different types of fire and most appropriate way to tackle them?
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 13:31
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Hose reels can be unsuitable for a number of reasons, and many commercial premises which had them installed have had them removed.
1) Hoses take time to deploy.
2) Hoses wedge open fire doors allowing smoke and fire to spread much more quickly.
3) Hoses create a trip hazard to occupants trying to escape, especially if vision is reduced by smoke.
4) A hose provides an inexhaustible supply of water. This can mean that whoever is using it (untrained) is much more likely to stay tackling a fire which is beyond their capability and in the process become trapped/incapacitated. The Fire Service then have to put their own personnel at significantly more risk by sending firefighters in to attempt a rescue.

Hoses are not good news in untrained hands.

Last edited by Blues&twos; 19th Apr 2019 at 14:00.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 17:04
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Guy with a hammer in an apartment block is attacking this, police immediately shoot him, you idea has worked.
Firemen turn up 3 minutes later to fight the fire and ask "Who shot our colleague Dave ?"
Dave lived in the block and was getting rid of the lock as he knew his colleagues would be there in a few minutes,
not dressed as a fireman because he at home.

Not unusual to witness a fire and guy joins from the crowd who is station crew but on leave and assists.
Legally not supposed to as not part of crew but they happy to have extra pair of hands and while not having all the
equipment he is not required to go and fight the fire but offer assistance to the station crew.

But hey lets just go round shooting people.
I'm not understanding something here.

Chap was attacking the lock on a fire hydrant/outlet of some sort with a hammer and the police turn up and immediately shoot him dead? Why would they do that since his attention would obviously be centred on the hydrant/lock and not the police surely?
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 17:07
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
I'm not understanding something here.

Chap was attacking the lock on a fire hydrant/outlet of some sort with a hammer and the police turn up and immediately shoot him dead? Why would they do that since his attention would obviously be centred on the hydrant/lock and not the police surely?
OP wants anybody "vandalising" safety equipment shot dead.................... no trial, investigation no anything just killed
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 17:15
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You have to go back to the philosophy of protecting a high-rise from fire.

Properly designed high-rises are designed to compartmentalise the fire. Hence the instructions to residents to stay inside their 'compartment'. Grenfell sadly broke the design rules, with inadequate protection that allowed the fire to move from compartment to compartment.

As for the hosepipe, it should only be used by the professionals. If Joe Public is standing trying to fight a fire, he is not doing what he should be doing...ie. trying to evade or escape the fire. Also, I imagine he will be both using the hosepipe inneffectively, and also tiring quickly. So the picture shows absolutely nothing wrong.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 17:28
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Originally Posted by Dan_Brown View Post
Why not have a hose real (anyone remember them?) with valve connected to the water riser? People who dwell in these blocks would have EASY AND QUICK access, which is imperative!. By the time the Fire brigade pitch up it would be too late, as was so well demonstrated at Grenfell!!

Instead the Fire Authorities instruct dwellers to stay indoors and cook . FFS!!!
Perhaps a read of the below. Stayed in this block twice in the year before. People who survived stayed where they were told to by Police and Firemen. Couple in question with kids rescued by same unit who knew her and daughter personally, they had delivered her baby couple of years before in the car park. Had they followed your moronic advice it would have been funerals for family of 4.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/...laze-1-1094042
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 17:33
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Originally Posted by NWSRG View Post

As for the hosepipe, it should only be used by the professionals. If Joe Public is standing trying to fight a fire, he is not doing what he should be doing...ie. trying to evade or escape the fire. Also, I imagine he will be both using the hosepipe inneffectively, and also tiring quickly. So the picture shows absolutely nothing wrong.
First job I was told, IF there is a fire it is NOT your job to fight it, your job is to notify others to ensure everybody is aware and can get out safely. We are insured and can replace the building, We cannot replace a single member of our staff if they die in a fire.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 20:45
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The photo in #1 shows a standard landing valve on a dry riser installation,the strap and miniature padlock are approved tamper products.

If the fire service need to use the dry riser ,they initially connect their pump (fire appliance with stored water) to the dry riser inlet. then connect their hose to the landing valve.

Looks nearly Ok but at least one of the valve flange securing nut's is missing
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 22:46
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Oh I see...

No I've not thought this through at all have I. Yes, now I have seen the error of my ways.

I get it now. When there is fire breaking out and small enough to be contained, with even a bucket of sand {if it was available), i.must carry out a complete risk assessment, before embarking on such stupidity,, untrained, for the complicated task of extinguishing a fire in the initial stage,. I think we should have risk assessment manuals attached to every fire extinguishing apparatus, that has public access. I recon, say 10 pages, attached to the hose and reel, to which I referred earlier. When the complete risk assessment is complete, the 'effin building would be well alight, of course but who cares?..

Now that I am enlightened and therefore risen above the rank of the great unwashed I can now state,with full confidence, if you see a fire and there is a hose pipe within reach, the golden rule would be, don't use it, to avoid possible risk to yourself.

What about the danger to persons who are in the immediate vicinity and trapped? Do not I repeat Do not under any circumstance try and carry out a rescue.It's just too dangerous. Best to just stand back and watch them fry.

I have really learn't great new things, reading some of the above, utter garbage!.Would they still be singing the same tune if their mother was at risk of the fire spreading. I weep in despair and ask God to give me strength, to endure, this further education..

Remember the basics. For a fire to be sustained, there must be fuel, air and heat. Get rid of 1 of the 3, the fire will extinguish. Water does a very good job at reducing 2 of the 3 components. If putting water on curtain fires, creates such volatility,, why not use water as fuel????.Next some HSE idiot will suggest an approved oil, to extinguish fires..
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 23:10
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The point you are missing (well one of many, actually) is that there is no water in the pipe unless and until a fire-engine connects a hose to the other end and starts pumping.

The pipe is not a water supply - it is just a provision that reduces the need for firemen to drag big hoses up a dozen flights of stairs.

You basically don't understand what you're looking at, so perhaps consider observing the first law of holes...

PDR
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