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Climate protests in London

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Climate protests in London

Old 21st Apr 2019, 21:03
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
If you want to believe a man can hold back the tide through strength of will alone, fill your boots.
A belief (whether mine or yours) does not equate to an "inescapable fact".
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Old 21st Apr 2019, 23:15
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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I see that Greta Thunberg, the Swedish girl who started it all is in London now, having addressed protestors at Marble Arch

She sure gets around a lot!
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Old 21st Apr 2019, 23:59
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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All of this is a consequence of years of doomongery about climate change. It's ongoing for some time now. There's a parallel with Brexit. Keep telling people thing are terrible and eventually they believe it.
For years the middle classes and it is the middle classes, have been fed scare stories about climate change so they've followed suit and bought hybrid cars and the rest. But the scare stories continue, David Attenborough their hero never shuts up about it. The BBC and frankly the rest of the media never stop banging on about it. Which has resulted in an obvious dilemma for the media when it comes to this protest. If I've seen one so called journalist dissembling in their reporting of this. I've seen them all. They really don't know how to report it. They agree with them but can't be seen to agree with the tactics. I suspect it's with some relief that the so called change of tactics announced today makes the media feel more comfortable. The poor dears have been struggling with the monster they created.

I also note the coincidence of the Easter holidays and this protest. Yes Mummies and students and government employees with time on their hands out on the streets. Come next week and the week after it will all be over. Everyone back to work.

Like all middle class revolts it will peter out and the only people left will be the radical lefties, much like the yellow vest thing in France.

The irony is that if anything Britain is ahead of the game in the climate change nonsense even if the fundamental reality is that if Britain did nothing the effect on the climate would be precisely zero, The real problem lies elsewhere with actual big countries that are only paying lip service to the idea. But of course like Brexit and in the sense the British believe their clout in the world is something like the mid 1890s the chattering classes in Britain think they are so important they actually have some influence in the scheme of things. I think it's called the walled garden syndrome. As in your belief that what goes on in your backyard applies to all the world.

It's all hubris just like Brexit.

Also I have lost all respect for Emma Thompson, oh wait I never had any.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 00:40
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Also I have lost all respect for Emma Thompson
You probably wouldn't have much for Leonardo DiCaprio either. Was in Europe and had to travel to the Big Apple to accept an award for his environmental/global warming efforts. How do you travel, private jet of course, how else.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 13:38
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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Emma Thompson's actions were disgraceful. Two faced at best.

I feel sorry for the police. Normally at this time of year PC Rain would have sent these protesters running for their 4 X 4s.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 13:41
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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Why don't they all go and protest in Beijing?
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 13:45
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Why do they not go and protest the murders of MH17?
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 14:08
  #168 (permalink)  
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Well I switched to Diesel as it was more economical to run than petrol. I will now switch to petrol for my next car as my useage is not sufficient for a diesel with DPF.

Simple economics not environmental considerations.

If I can get a hybrid or electric it will also be for economic reasons.

If I fly it will be for personal reasons. If I chose economy it will be for economic reasons.

If I buy low food mile foods it will be for economic reasons.

How many people are happy to go green despite economic advantages?
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 15:53
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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Please explain, what are low food mile foods?
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 17:06
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Locally grown.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 17:08
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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If I buy low food mile foods it will be for economic reasons
While I am price conscious, with fresh foods, I do find that quality is usually better (mostly entirely because of freshness) (also supports local suppliers - - - - - - you'll need them when things go sour) with locally sourced veg, fruit and meat and it is usually worth paying a bit extra if that is the case. Nutrients decrease proportionally to time since picked and fresh tastes better.

- low mile foods - short distances from source to table. (no B747 rides for them)
eg. I prefer locally grown tomatoes to ones that have travelled from Mexico or Peru.

Lea & Perrins would be an exception. Also bananas.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 17:24
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Well I switched to Diesel as it was more economical to run than petrol. I will now switch to petrol for my next car as my useage is not sufficient for a diesel with DPF.

Simple economics not environmental considerations.

If I can get a hybrid or electric it will also be for economic reasons.

If I fly it will be for personal reasons. If I chose economy it will be for economic reasons.

If I buy low food mile foods it will be for economic reasons.

How many people are happy to go green despite economic advantages?
I agree wholeheartedly that simple economics is probably one of the most powerful influences at work when it comes to personal decision making, with the possible exception of some purchases that may be made based on the need some seem to have to show that they are either "fashionable" or "superior beings" (cars spring to mind, for example). Personal beliefs do come into it a fair bit though, although perhaps not enough to overcome significant economic disadvantages.

As an example, I designed and built our current house, and the reasons for choosing to do this were both economic and based on our personal beliefs. We wanted a house that suited our retirement lifestyle, was cheap to build and cheap to run, and which had as low an impact on the environment as we could reasonably achieve. We've ended up with a house that cost less than its market value to build, is made from sustainable materials (it's almost entirely timber, with recycled newspaper as insulation) and which generates far more energy than it uses (since built it has used ~11 MWh and generated ~30 MWh).

As a consequence of all the excess generation from the house, I opted to buy an electric car, although I have to say that the performance of the car was a significant reason to buy it, and the very low running cost is really just a bonus. If the car wasn't as quick as it is, then I'd probably have thought twice before deciding to buy it.

The spin off from the low running cost of the house (the only bills are council tax and insurance) and the low running cost of the car, is that we have enough leftover money to have a couple of extra holidays a year. We always go on holiday here in the UK, not because of any particular concern over the impact of flying on the environment, but because, after years of regular trips for work, the last thing I now want to do now is suffer the hassle of flying (or more accurately, airports) now I'm retired. It so happens that we've discovered some really nice places here in the UK, places I doubt we'd have thought of visiting if it wasn't for our desire to not fly anywhere.

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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 17:59
  #173 (permalink)  

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I feel sorry for the police. Normally at this time of year PC Rain would have sent these protesters running for their 4 X 4s.
Probably one of the most ridiculous and out of touch statements I have ever read in my many years here on PPRuNe !
Ancient Observer indeed :-)

El Grifo
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 19:03
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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I am surprised that while the great and good are out protesting the police do not simply clear the camp sites.


and as for electric cars being clean..... Please, bar the odd "green" power source, which is in the minority, the majority of the so called green clean electricity is being produced somewhere by burning stuff, all you have done is shifted the end pollution elsewhere, be it carbon based or nuclear fuels.

The only true clean energy I see will come when we crack the problems of using hydrogen.

Last edited by NutLoose; 22nd Apr 2019 at 19:17.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 19:58
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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Hydro clean energy capability is available in many areas and has been for a long time.
Biggest downside to that energy source is the geographical modification but there are big upsides.
Dams are expensive but so is a polluting coal fired power plant.
India should concentrate on adding a few hydro electric plants on the polluted holy river and other Himalayan source running water.

There are 1,600 coal power plants planned or being built in 62 countries.
The IEA estimates burning coal is responsible for 1/3 of all global warming.
India - 589 existing - 446 planned
China - 2363 existing - 1171 planned
Turkey - 56 existing - 93 planned
Japan - 90 existing - 45 planned

Last edited by meadowrun; 22nd Apr 2019 at 20:11.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 23:20
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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I remember when a coal powered station near me closed due to EU emission limits, the whole lot was bought by China, stripped down, shipped across the world and continued chuck out the same sh&@, just in a different location and at a bargain price.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 23:33
  #177 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post


I was going to make almost exactly the same post! When she was interviewed, she was trying to justify the fact that “I have to fly because of my career and so it’s only several times a year.” Most of us poor peasants usually only get to fly once a year for our main holiday - If we’re privileged enough to afford one!

“Speaking to reporters from the Extinction Rebellion campaign group's pink boat, she said did not fly as much as she used to - and planted a lot of trees.”

I’ve planted a lot of shrubs in my garden - does that count?
When the interviewer asked her if she understood the hypocrisy of her situation Ms. Thompson did point out that she flies economy - as if that makes any difference to the climate.

I've now gone off her because I find a haughty attitude backed up only by gross stupidity highly unattractive.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 23:39
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Hydro clean energy capability is available in many areas and has been for a long time.
Biggest downside to that energy source is the geographical modification but there are big upsides.
Dams are expensive but so is a polluting coal fired power plant.
India should concentrate on adding a few hydro electric plants on the polluted holy river and other Himalayan source running water.

There are 1,600 coal power plants planned or being built in 62 countries.
The IEA estimates burning coal is responsible for 1/3 of all global warming.
India - 589 existing - 446 planned
China - 2363 existing - 1171 planned
Turkey - 56 existing - 93 planned
Japan - 90 existing - 45 planned
To consider, in mitigation, most / many of these new power stations, particularly in China, are intended to replace older, "dirty-burning" stations.
Emissions from coal-fired stations is proportional to demand, not just to the number of stations.
Some of the new stations are in anticipation of increasing demand (India), others are not.
Hopefully (I hope, I don't know) nett effect will be a reduction in emissions over levels if some of those new technology stations had not been built.

Japan - 90 existing - 45 planned
Japanese power stations have been in TOGA mode since Fukushima and the closure of their nuclear power stations.
Nett effect will probably not be a step increase in emissions, and certainly not 50%, but rather a drop in load levels on existing stations.

The IEA estimates burning coal is responsible for 1/3 of all global warming.
Not all coal burned is burned in power stations. A very significant portion is used in steel blast furnaces.
I can't see that changing for the better any time soon.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 23:51
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
The spin off from the low running cost of the house (the only bills are council tax and insurance) and the low running cost of the car, is that we have enough leftover money to have a couple of extra holidays a year. We always go on holiday here in the UK, not because of any particular concern over the impact of flying on the environment, but because, after years of regular trips for work, the last thing I now want to do now is suffer the hassle of flying (or more accurately, airports) now I'm retired. It so happens that we've discovered some really nice places here in the UK, places I doubt we'd have thought of visiting if it wasn't for our desire to not fly anywhere.
From a recent study authored by Dr Arunima Malik, a lecturer in sustainability from the University of Sydney.
"For our analysis, our researchers considered many factors together in order to calculate tourism’s global carbon footprint”.

“Our analysis is comprehensive and, hence, takes into account all the upstream supply chains to quantify the impacts of tourist spending on food, clothing, transport and hospitality.”
The research finds that, between 2009 and 2013, tourism’s annual global carbon footprint increased from 3.9 to 4.5bn tonnes of CO2 equivalent.This figure is four times higher than previous estimates and accounts for 8 per cent of global greenhouse gas emissions, the research finds.
The rise is largely driven by an increased demand for goods and services – rather than air travel, the research finds.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 06:12
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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In the North of England near to where I live we now have three abandoned waste digesting power plants, just mothballed for possible economic reasons, never completed.
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