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Climate protests in London

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Climate protests in London

Old 19th Apr 2019, 20:59
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Buster15 View Post
I had no idea where you live.
You might try looking two lines below my handle...

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Old 19th Apr 2019, 21:49
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Buster15, I'm of the same era as your good self!

According to the satellite data the global average temperature has been stable for the last decade or so. Unfortunately Mr Attenborough didn't include this in his presentation apparently. Don't forget the intrinsic error spread in a) calculating the average global temperature and b) back-casting a global average temperature and then c) comparing the two numbers. Surely it is obvious to anyone who has had to calculate averages and/or run models that you cannot take a difference of less then 1 degree as an absolute figure?
CO2 levels are rising but the temperature hasn't been rising in line with the CO2 increase
Mankind has been "damaging" the planet" since the plough was invented, some people call this "progress"
As long as we are coming out of an ice age the ice caps will melt and some sea levels will rise

I don't understand why we, the ants populating a ball of molten rock covered in dirt, think we can reverse climate change to a level at an arbitrary point in time in the recent past?

The old saying about follow the money and you'll find the truth should spring to mind when you realise that Goldman Sachs created.Carbon Trading . Do you think they did it out of the goodness of their hearts and concern for their fellow man? Aye, right as my Scottish pals might say!
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 06:42
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
Buster15, have a look here: Climate Change - The Facts and here for Part 2 .
I wondered how long it would take before someone cited Paul Homewood - a retired ex-accountant with no scientific training, knowledge or background whatsoever, something he strangely fails to mention on his website.

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/about/
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 07:51
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Buster15, it came from 'stardust'. (We are all 'animated stardust'.)
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 08:05
  #125 (permalink)  
Tabs please !
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I see Emma Thompson is now saying that "if she could fly cleanly, she would".
Well if I could travel at 600 mph while being served food sourced from every corner of the planet without burning hydrocarbons, I would too. What a pointless statement by an utterly pointless individual. I wonder if her children, which now include the obligatory African born "fashion statement" child, have ever walked to their air conditioned schools ?

She's a watermelon, green on the outside but red to the core.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 09:06
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I see Emma Thompson is now saying that "if she could fly cleanly, she would".
How about this for a radical idea Ms Thompson; stay this side of the pond and make your movies in one of the many studios over here!
Given that she describes the UK as “a cake-filled misery-laden grey old island” I suspect she doesn't want to spend all her time here. Nothing like talking your country up.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 09:38
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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I have now put Thompson in the same box as Richard Wagner (great composer but pretty unpleasant individual). In her case it's "very good actress but otherwise a total tit".
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 09:56
  #128 (permalink)  

Flashes from the Archives of Oblivion
 
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I was quite interested in th Video you posted Orac.
Some very salient points !
Until that is, the final guy came up with "There is nothing wrong with Co2. In fact the more of it the better"

Sort of blew it at that point !
El Grifo
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 10:02
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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CO2 is indeed a greenhouse gas and, yes, some CO2 is ‘manmade’.

But methane, produced by cows is a much more potent greenhouse gas, and the most potent greenhouse gas of all is water vapour.

The Earth’s temperature is also affected by the Sun’s temperature, the presence of sunspots, our orbital distance from the Sun and other factors of a Solar scale, and which are cyclical. The attitude and orbit of the Earth around the Sun is not constant and has several components, one of which for example is a variation in the Earth’s tilt which has a period of 26,000 years. So the amount of solar power warming the Earth varies.

It seems odd then, that all the focus is on just one single factor, carbon dioxide. Is it a coincidence that carbon dioxide can be fairly easily taxed according to use whereas the other factors cannot, realistically, be taxed?

If politicians really, truly believed that carbon dioxide production was a serious problem, and that their own children and children’s children would suffer; surely they would stop flying around the globe and start using virtual video conferences? Surely they would tax casual holiday flying out of existence, instead of allowing and encouraging more and more air travel. (Although modern air travel is very efficient). Why are electric cars and LED light bulbs so expensive? Why have we not gone back to opening up the railway branch lines and laying on bus services using super efficient busses, or using hydrogen fuel cells. Why do the staff and passenger coaches at airports still run on diesel, and not electricity or flywheel storage etc etc etc?

Why are gas boilers for houses still allowed, when ground or air source heat pumps are much more efficient? Why is there not a massive tree planting program across the planet? Why is China being ‘allowed’ to build a new coal fed power station every week or whatever?

Don’t get me wrong, I am not a climate change denier, but something smells fishy to me.

Last edited by Uplinker; 20th Apr 2019 at 10:25.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 11:15
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Orbits and Iceages. The history of climate

Very good video on yutoob by Dan Britt on the causes of the increases and decreases in global temperatures from both long term, millions of years. Medium term, thousands of years. And short term, decades.

Very lucid explanation of this very subject.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 11:24
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
it is an inescapable fact that the climate cycles through extremes of temperature.
It is an inescapable fact that, despite his courtiers encouragement, Canute could not hold back the tide.
You'll be trying to convince us next that the earth is flat, and the moon made of cheese.

It is beliefs and attitudes such as your's that are going to contribute to the climate disaster that is around the corner, not for us but for our kids, and their kids. Congratulations.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 12:02
  #132 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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GTW, I am sure there are many places with alcohol and many other restrictions where any prohibition notice is less than prominent.

However drinking alcohol in public, other than at a suitable venue, is pretty common, and I don't mean frequent.
​​​​​
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 12:04
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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AT - Climate change happens all the time

Glaciers once covered most of the Uk, the early men WALKED across the channel on dry land, the Sahara was , if not a verdant Eden, a place where grass grew and animals and humans lived.
The geologists can show that we are currently in a warming cycle - this has NOTHING to do with humanity. The issue is are we causing change to happen faster (probably) and can we do anything about it (probably not)?

My Earth Science mates suggest its a bad idea to buy property in Florida (rent!) or near any coast line - invest in C Canada and C Russia

You could cut EVERY piece of human CO2 emissions and only slow the effects by a hundred or so years.....
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 12:36
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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I posted this comment in R&N, but itís probably more relevant here.

Who can explain the massive and relatively rapid retreat of the ice sheets over the northern hemisphere 15,000 years ago? And the subsequent advance again 10,000 years ago and finally, their retreat back to the polar regions - certainly not human influence.

I'm convinced volcanic activity has a huge impact on the climate; major eruption (Mount St Helen's, for example) colder winters. The smallest particles of dust get into the stratosphere and are able to travel vast distances, often worldwide. These tiny particles are so light that they can stay in the stratosphere for months, blocking sunlight and causing cooling over large areas of the Earth.

Thereís been a theory that even our own planetís orbit has more impact on the Earthís temperature than we are aware. Iíve read theories from scientists that we do not necessarily rotate around the sun in a perfect circle. Sometimes there is a slight wobble and sometimes the route is slightly more elliptical. It only takes a minuscule adjustment to these degrees and we see longer hotter summers or colder winters, depending on the hemisphere.

it makes common sense not to crap up our own planet; it grieves me to see the amount of discarded litter and images of factories belching smoke into the sky. But Iím not totally convinced we have that much control over the elements - no doubt if we did, some superpower would already be using it to subdue opponents. Green taxes are a farce, they donít seem to be ploughed back into environmental concerns, just another way of raising capital.

i defend the right for anyone to protest, but what I canít stand is the hypocrisy of so many of those that campaign for these issues.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 12:41
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
AT - Climate change happens all the time

Glaciers once covered most of the Uk, the early men WALKED across the channel on dry land, the Sahara was , if not a verdant Eden, a place where grass grew and animals and humans lived.
The geologists can show that we are currently in a warming cycle - this has NOTHING to do with humanity. The issue is are we causing change to happen faster (probably) and can we do anything about it (probably not)?

My Earth Science mates suggest its a bad idea to buy property in Florida (rent!) or near any coast line - invest in C Canada and C Russia

You could cut EVERY piece of human CO2 emissions and only slow the effects by a hundred or so years.....
Of course over time, extended time, there have been major changes in the earth's climate, but the rate of change over the past half century have been unprecedentedly fast. We can absolutely do something about the rate of change, but to reverse the warming may be impossible for your stated reasons. That I grant you.

To say that we can't do anything however is nonsense. The conspicuous consumption of the west in particular, the desire in some parts of the world, to drive unnecessarily large vehicles with poor rates of fuel efficiency are quite avoidable, as is the again quite unnecessary shipping of food stuffs half way around the world because of a desire to east asparagus or strawberries out of season.

Of course the biggest contributor to the problem is the ever increasing population of the planet by humans. Various religious beliefs ensure that it will probably be a catastrophic health or food issue that will stop this, before the decision makers see common sense.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 13:50
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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The more I read about this topic, the more perplexed I become. We have heard, long and loud, the claims that CO2 surrounds the earth high up in the atmosphere, thus acting in a manner similar to a blanket, keeping heat in, rather than escaping into space. If CO2 is heavier than the rest of the atmosphere, how does it get up to these lofty heights? Who is putting it there? And if the blanket theory is correct, then why is nobody complaining about cloud cover? Surely this is composed of good, life giving water rather than CO2? And we have all heard the weather forecasters tell us that the heavy cloud cover tonight will mean temperatures will stay relatively warm (or the reverse: no clouds in the sky tonight mean it will be very cold in places).
So, is global warming really caused by CO2 or is it down the huge volumes of hot air spouted by both sides of the argument?
Incidentally, Re Mr. Attenborough, has anybody noticed he is not a climate scientist. He is a naturalist. I have found I don't subscribe to the hero worship he attracts but I do watch a few of his programmes. Why? Because I find myself puzzling for the entire programme over "How did the cameraman get that shot?" Or, "I wonder what kind of lens that took?" etc. His programmes, to me, rank alongside Top Gear: Amazing photography with very careful (tedious) preparation.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 14:09
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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It is a hugely complex issue. I would say that the jury is still out, but that the summing up has pretty much determined the verdict. I do think it is unrealistic to lay all the changes at the door of natural variation in climate. We may well be on a natural
upswing in temperature but I have to say that in the course of my lifetime, and especially since the millennium, we have had some very mild winters and hot summers. 1959 and 1976 that once stood out have become the norm as have snow free winters.

Having said that people like Emma Thompson don't help their case at all. For an educated woman she seems to make some extremely stupid statements. Those of us born before 1960 will be ok, but those being born now are heading for a nasty world where some difficult decisions are going to have to be made.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 15:28
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
Buster15, it came from 'stardust'. (We are all 'animated stardust'.)
Originally that is correct. Oxygen is one of the more abundant elements in our Universe.

However, in terms of our planet, free Oxygen in the atmosphere was in tiny amounts until photosynthesis; the photosynthesis era.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 16:44
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
it is an inescapable fact that the climate cycles through extremes of temperature.
It is an inescapable fact that, despite his courtiers encouragement, Canute could not hold back the tide.
I am struggling to believe that you don't seem to believe that we are damaging our planet.
I can accept pretty much anything else but honestly - not damaging our planet.
That is simply rubbish.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 18:18
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
You'll be trying to convince us next that the earth is flat, and the moon made of cheese.

It is beliefs and attitudes such as your's that are going to contribute to the climate disaster that is around the corner, not for us but for our kids, and their kids. Congratulations.
I post two inescapable facts and you are incapable of accepting them? Instead you resort to rhetoric suitable for a fascistic dictator.

In fact I suppose that is what you are; a climate change Nazi.


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