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Climate protests in London

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Climate protests in London

Old 30th Apr 2019, 09:48
  #241 (permalink)  
 
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This group appear to be actually applying a scientific method to their analysis of the IPCC reports.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 10:15
  #242 (permalink)  
 
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That is an interesting read, it will no doubt be savagely attacked when some groups get round to reading it.

I was particularly taken by this paragraph:

It is little appreciated that the increasing CO2 level is actually beneficial to the greening
through photosynthesis of the planet, and therefore may be beneficial to feeding the global population as it heads towards 9‐10 billion.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 10:23
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And as for the supposed Banksy supporting them..... ahhh, made his fortune including this supposed item using aerosols and paint, all good for the environment.....not


Let's deal with the actual reality. Climate change is happening. Even a so called denier can't deny that. We can argue the cause, man made or not.
Climate change has always been an on going thing, just look at images of old London and ice skating on a frozen Thames.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 10:47
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Section 3 about solar effects is interesting (and understandable).

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...08%2C+2019.pdf
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 12:53
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
I see that the Welsh Assembly has called our lovely warm summers an 'Emergency'!
“Climate Change Emergency” is the catchphrase du jour for virtue signallers. Environmental campaigners are demanding it. Politicians are falling over themselves to promise it, and in some cases have even declared it. But no one knows what it really means or how invoking it will actually change anything. Other, of course, than by making those concerned feel pleased with themselves……..
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 17:30
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k3k3,

Thanks for that interesting reference.

I have wondered for some years whether or not anyone had really attempted a correlation between solar activity and planetary temperature. Certainly sunspot maxima have been declining in activity since the IGY, leading to a very noticeable degradation in HF radio communication conditions.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 19:44
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Originally Posted by radeng View Post
k3k3,

Thanks for that interesting reference.

I have wondered for some years whether or not anyone had really attempted a correlation between solar activity and planetary temperature. Certainly sunspot maxima have been declining in activity since the IGY, leading to a very noticeable degradation in HF radio communication conditions.
A lot of organisations/agencies have been looking at this for a while. Giggle is of course your friend but for example:

https://science.nasa.gov/science-new...jan_sunclimate


https://phys.org/news/2017-03-sun-im...uantified.html

Of course every agency can be accused of bias, one way or the other, so it's probably it's worth looking at multiple sources.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 20:05
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I'm probably a bit naive but doesn't this Irish paper help to expose the myth of a consensus of scientists?.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 21:09
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Originally Posted by pulse1 View Post
I'm probably a bit naive but doesn't this Irish paper help to expose the myth of a consensus of scientists?.
Worth looking at who they are. They were started by an energy consultant and they don't have any climate scientists, They are a disparate group that's associated with the UK policy group that Nigel Lawson founded, the Global Warming Policy Foundation. The GWPF have already been shown to lie on national media, some may recall the fibs that Lawson told on the radio a year or two ago, before he stood down from GWPF. These groups try to misrepresent the climate science, not because they believe that the science is wrong, but because a some people, with connections to big business, and energy in particular, have an interest in trying to limit the impact of any legislation that may harm their business interests.
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Old 1st May 2019, 11:44
  #250 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
... have an interest in ... the impact of any legislation ...
Ah, the hypocrisy! So the UK Treasury funded Stern Report was not purposefully aimed at directly impacting the tax raising abilities of legislation in favour of the UK Treasury?

I am fully in favour of anyone bringing questions and debate into this topic rather than this most unscientific "the science is certain" mantra that is used to shut own any sensible debate or questioning. This "man-made global warming" has become a religion and not a science. I have no time for religious bigots of any kind.
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Old 1st May 2019, 12:44
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Nature is the master and moves at its own pace, a pace we do not ken, a power capacity we really do not understand.
We do not control the slightest bit of weather. It controls us, often very dramatically.
80% of the oceans remained unmapped, unexplored, unknown.
15,000 new species of life are discovered each year. (Baffling Beetle: Nymphister Kronaueri)
An estimated 86% of existing life on Earth is yet to be discovered and identified.

The planetary biosphere is doing its own powerful thing.
We might be acting as an accelerant with some level of volatility, maybe a small turbo-charger to the processes, but we underestimate nature.

Nevertheless, pollution of all sorts - bad. Keep cutting it down. Probably the best thing we all can do - show respect for home.
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Old 1st May 2019, 13:12
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radeng: judging by the comments in the report mentioned above the IPCC are downplaying solar effects on the upper atmosphere while bigging up the influence of CO2. Does this have anything to do with the ease of taxing CO2 emissions or making rather large profits from Cap & trade? Hmm, even Goldman Sachs haven't managed to come up with a way of profiting from solar energy. Yet!
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Old 1st May 2019, 13:15
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Nature is the master and moves at its own pace, a pace we do not ken, a power capacity we really do not understand.
We do not control the slightest bit of weather ...
I fully agree. I think I have mentioned how I took part in an experiment where huge scientific effort was going into trying to alter very, very specific and very, very, very local weather and after several seasons of effort we were making at the best 1% difference. Nature, the weather and the climate are HUGELY bigger than us or any of our efforts, deliberate or accidental.

Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
...

Nevertheless, pollution of all sorts - bad. Keep cutting it down. Probably the best thing we all can do - show respect for home.
I FULLY agree. I keep my house and garden clean and tidy. I treat the rest of the environment around me the same and don't litter (and occasionally take part in 'litter picks') and I have never owned a diesel car. As a family we have had very direct involvement in environmental and conservation matters: real environment that you can see and touch, not the hocus pocus 'catch phrase' nonsense that brings about those hypocritical first world protests.

I do not see Carbon as an 'evil' in any way at all. 18% of me is carbon and I survive by eating carbon. All life needs carbon to survive. Carbon is good.

It is interesting to see that the protests in Paris were triggered by the exact opposite of the protests in London: opposition to the 'Climate Change' fuel tax rises (the exact sort of taxes that the London mob want brought in).
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Old 2nd May 2019, 13:27
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VP959 it all depends on if you believe "the science is settled" or not. People who do not subscribe to this belief actually do have the right to follow the basic scientific principle that the science is NEVER settled and to publish papers which poke holes in the way the monolith that is the IPCC handle "peer reviewed" papers and data. Unfortunately they are constantly labelled "deniers" etc to imply that they are part of a stupid minority rather than people who have not converted to the new religion.

I find it strange that the IPCC always promotes the worst possible outcome for any climate change when the reality of climate changes during the period since the IPCC was formed in 1988 does not back up any of the climate predictions.

Huge reliance on computer modelling of an infinitely complex system such as global climate has to making big assumptions regarding the interactions between the elements of the system mean the results are never going to be accurate but the IPCC still churns out predictions within 0.1C which is, by any statisticians definition, nonsense.

The first IPCC report, issued in 1990, confidently predicted a sea level rise of 60mm per decade if things remained as they were in 1998. This results in a predicted sea level rise of approximately 120mm. Given that things haven't stayed the same and the level of evil CO2 has increased from 366.7ppm to 408.4pmm (at Muana Loa) a rise of 41.7ppm or 11.4% would imply, if the IPCC methodology is correct, a sea level increase in proportion giving a total rise of 134.7mm. Actual sea level rise as tracked by NASA is 70.4mm (+/- 0.8mm) which conveniently illustrates my point about the IPCC's handling of "predictions".

Wasn't Vanuatu supposed to have been below sea level by now? The defence rests!
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Old 2nd May 2019, 13:38
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I found it very amusing a short while ago watching Sky where a union press conference was emphasising the importance of maintaining aircraft production, while on BBC they were interviewing people saying that 'we must take less flights'.

Very much like the protests in London saying that the government must 'take more action and increase taxes' due to "climate change", while in Paris there are protests against the action that their government was taking by raising taxes 'to meet their "climate change" commitments'.

First world protest is delightfully hypocritical.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 14:04
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LowNSlow, "the science is settled" is a religion and not a science. You cannot have scientific discussions with those who follow a religion about their beliefs.

Their reliance on computer modelling is their greatest flaw. Remember the computer modelling after the Icelandic volcano eruption that had airlines grounded due to computer models of an 'ash risk' when we were all staring at clear blue skies with not the slightest sign of 'ash'. And that was on a fairly local and short term scale. Project those errors to a global scale and over decades and the reliability of those 'models' becomes very, very, very, very questionable. But you will never be able to convince a religious believer with valid questions.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 15:38
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NoelEvans, from my limited experience of risk modelling and from working with vastly more experienced people than myself if you can predict with an accuracy whereby the actual result falls within a +/- 10% bracket then you are doing very well indeed and that was working on projects where the majority of the risks were "knowns".

I realise that climate modelling is very, very different but at the root the process is similar using basic existing data, an assessment of the variables, estimating how those variables interact with each other, writing an algorithm to do the "if value x increases by 1 then value y will increase by 0.5" etc etc and then using a large shed full of computing power to run various scenarios based on the initial assumptions. Somebody to whom "the science isn't settled" will then try to revise the basic algorithms until they can replicate what has actually happened over a given time period so that there is confidence in the predicting ability of the overall package. Unfortunately this is being driven by people, eg Mann, to whom "the science is settled" so as a consequence, as I understand it none of the models can replicate what has actually been documented as factual change but rely on coarse "adjustments" to skew the back-cast to align with reality. Unfortunately this kind of pseudo-science does not fill me with confidence that my tax money is being spent wisely on attempting to reduce CO2 emissions. This sums it up nicely.

Don't get me started on the infamous 97% of scientists....... The only time a group of more than 50 people have 97% agreement is if they have a gun to their heads!
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Old 2nd May 2019, 17:57
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Speaking of Nigel Lawson: I remember his appearance on the Today programme a couple of years ago where he wittered and rambled for what seemed an eternity. Not to long after that appearance, the BBC were roundly labasted and even (I think) cenusred by Ofcom because they allowed him to have the whole stage without presenting a dissenting voice to oppose him. Oddly enough, more recently a truculent Swedish teenager was afforded similar opportunities to spout her "view of the world and how I can fix it". No dissenting voice was put up against her, she was allowed he opinions and hers alone. Yet no similar lambasting of the BBC by Ofcom has yet occurred. Odd that, isn't it? (I am definitely NOT putting myself forward as an advocate for Lawson!).
radeng: That was interesting post re sunspot activity. That was one of those "it's in the bible' mantras which one just accepted. "Every 11 years, sunspots go a bit barmy and HF predictions get tricky. Now let's move on and get onto the Heaviside layer..!"
My Barlow Wadley receiver sits here, near my feet and not listened to for a couple of years. I really ought to resurrect it.
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Old 5th May 2019, 08:28
  #259 (permalink)  
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It was thoughtful of the M.o.S to include the term "spewing forth "in the headline......the rag in question having being doing such consistently over the years after all..

Anyway, now we know BA jets "spew forth ", the RR Book of Jet engines will have to be rapidly amended with regard to efflux !

That said, the rag does have a point when it comes to "celebs " jumping on bandwagons.......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-48165354
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Old 5th May 2019, 12:40
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I just watched John McDonnell being interviewed on Marr on BBC earlier.

He thinks ER are wonderful and he will be inviting them to brief his Treasury team on what is needed.

They don't need scientists and engineers help to solve the problem, JC and his team will use healing crystals and drumming. Oh and a bit of vandalism on the buildings of your enemies.

Simples.

I use humour to disguise my absolute fury that we allow people like this to be in any way in charge of trying to solve any problems, climate or otherwise.

Just for balance my fury is also aimed at the Gove character who also fell over backwards to meet ER and their youth wing.

Last edited by Grayfly; 5th May 2019 at 13:39. Reason: Too angry first time round.
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