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Climate protests in London

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Climate protests in London

Old 23rd Apr 2019, 07:41
  #181 (permalink)  
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Reference local food and food miles.

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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 07:57
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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On the BBC this morning, the Swedish schoolgirl was introduced as having travelled all over Europe but, it was emphasised, without flying. She had made all her journeys by train. Well, that will make a difference then! None of that pollution producing energy that aeroplanes need to get around the sky. And, of course, we must accept that the trains she used for her travel are all powered by a special kind of electricity, specially produced from fairy dust or distillate of unicorn juice or something!
I wonder if she gave any thought to the electricity that may have powered her travel around Poland or Germany? Probably produced using brown coal/lignite. As dirty a product as it is possible to get, yet the EU continues to sanction the mining and consumption of this stuff in the millions of tons! Shhh! No need to make a fuss, these mines are not in the UK.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 09:01
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
and as for electric cars being clean..... Please, bar the odd "green" power source, which is in the minority, the majority of the so called green clean electricity is being produced somewhere by burning stuff, all you have done is shifted the end pollution elsewhere, be it carbon based or nuclear fuels.

The only true clean energy I see will come when we crack the problems of using hydrogen.
Worth looking at some facts regarding the national grid emissions per kWh and comparing those with petrol or diesel vehicle emissions per kWh. For example, for the UK the "well-to-wheels" greenhouse gas emissions is:

Average for petrol engined vehicles = 178g CO2eq/km

Average for diesel engined vehicles = 145g CO2eq/km

Average for grid-powered electric vehicles = 90g CO2eq/km

The reason is a combination of grid electricity generation being a great deal more efficient than either a petrol or diesel engine (typically a combined cycle gas fired power station may be around 55% to 60% efficient, versus the best diesel at around 40% efficient) plus a significant part of the grid energy coming from zero carbon generation (as I write this 31.46% of our power is coming from renewable sources, 18.9% from nuclear, 4.3% from coal, 0% from oil, 36.8% from gas, with the rest coming from European interconnects etc).



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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 10:03
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you VP959.
Could you please explain what 178g CO2eq/KM actually means?
This is not a trap, I am genuinely interested, I am looking to replace my current diesel with a hybrid, that is petrol and electric.
From your figures does it mean that the petrol vehicle will emit 178g of CO2 per km? If so, what is that 178g as an equivalent to the weight of fuel that is burnt?
What does that actually mean for the environment? How many trees will it take to soak up that CO2?
This may be over simplifying the issue, but there is so much obscuration of the facts that people are just ignoring the problem, rather than seizing an opportunity.

The more I try to unravel the figures of the motor manufacturers the more confused I end up.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 10:20
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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I heard the Greta Thunberg's interview on Radio 4 this morning. First of all I was very impressed with her standard of English - far superior to that of many native speakers. I did however think that she was given a very easy ride by John Humphreys , who was maybe overcompensating for her young age. Very little questioning of what, precisely, she expects Western governments to be doing and only brief mention of the world's arch polluter China, and none, as I recall, of India and Indonesia. He certainly mentioned her rail travel approvingly, ignoring the source of the electricity which powered the trains. Maybe it would have been a bit much to have submitted her to Humphreys' usual Today programme grilling which he hands out to politicians but I think a little more rigour would have been appropriate.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 10:24
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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El Grifo, I think Ancient Observer was referring to the fact that when the rain starts falling most protestors soon look for shelter and the protest stalls. The UK police force used to refer to this as the arrival of Police Constable Rain and regarded him as a valuable member of the force.

If you read this Harvard study about protests:

[COLOR=left=#000000]The researchers found that in places where it rained that day, the turnout was, on average, 60% lower than at other similar locations. [/COLOR]

Last edited by LowNSlow; 23rd Apr 2019 at 11:09.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 10:55
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Spunky Monkey View Post
Thank you VP959.
Could you please explain what 178g CO2eq/KM actually means?
This is not a trap, I am genuinely interested, I am looking to replace my current diesel with a hybrid, that is petrol and electric.
From your figures does it mean that the petrol vehicle will emit 178g of CO2 per km? If so, what is that 178g as an equivalent to the weight of fuel that is burnt?
What does that actually mean for the environment? How many trees will it take to soak up that CO2?
This may be over simplifying the issue, but there is so much obscuration of the facts that people are just ignoring the problem, rather than seizing an opportunity.

The more I try to unravel the figures of the motor manufacturers the more confused I end up.

It's as confusing as hell the way they express this stuff, IMHO. The "well-to-wheel" model tries to assess the total emissions impact by expressing it as the equivalent environmental impact of just CO2 on its own, so they convert the impact of all the emissions into the CO2eq figure, which is short for CO2 equivalent.

The figures are an average, so the petrol vehicle figure represents the average for all petrol vehicles, so there's a wide variation from model to model. The CO2eq figure will always be a fair bit higher than just the CO2 figure, because it includes the impact of all emissions.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 11:01
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
I heard the Greta Thunberg's interview on Radio 4 this morning. First of all I was very impressed with her standard of English - far superior to that of many native speakers. I did however think that she was given a very easy ride by John Humphreys , who was maybe overcompensating for her young age. Very little questioning of what, precisely, she expects Western governments to be doing and only brief mention of the world's arch polluter China, and none, as I recall, of India and Indonesia. He certainly mentioned her rail travel approvingly, ignoring the source of the electricity which powered the trains. Maybe it would have been a bit much to have submitted her to Humphreys' usual Today programme grilling which he hands out to politicians but I think a little more rigour would have been appropriate.
An example:

Stockholm to London, by train ~52kg CO2 per person

Stockholm to London, by air ~258kg CO2 per person

So, travelling by train generates around 20% of the CO2 that the same trip would generate if flying. Seems a significant reduction to me.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 11:40
  #189 (permalink)  
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I wonder who writes her script?
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 12:17
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I wonder if she gave any thought to the electricity that may have powered her travel around Poland or Germany? Probably produced using brown coal/lignite. As dirty a product as it is possible to get, yet the EU continues to sanction the mining and consumption of this stuff in the millions of tons!
It's a fair point. I read somewhere that the UK generates 1% of the worlds CO2 emissions. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking for ways to reduce that even further, but if you're looking to avoid irreversible climate change then making further improvements to that 1% will not make a significant difference. The protesters can bang on about 'Climate Change Emergency' all they like, but until China, India and the US buy into that idea it's an exercise in futility.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 12:24
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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It is perhaps worth mentioning that even if we had a completely pollution free means of generating unlimited energy, we would still have the problem of how to radiate all that extra heat being generated away from the Earth. All the power generated from every source eventually ends up as heat due to entropy. A far better measure of the potential to damage the climate would be to consider the energy used per person across the planet. The USA is far ahead of all other nations by that measure.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 12:43
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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The Extinction Rebellion rabble do their bit to save Hyde Park.


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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 12:56
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
On the BBC this morning, the Swedish schoolgirl was introduced as having travelled all over Europe but, it was emphasised, without flying. She had made all her journeys by train. Well, that will make a difference then! None of that pollution producing energy that aeroplanes need to get around the sky. And, of course, we must accept that the trains she used for her travel are all powered by a special kind of electricity, specially produced from fairy dust or distillate of unicorn juice or something!
I wonder if she gave any thought to the electricity that may have powered her travel around Poland or Germany? Probably produced using brown coal/lignite. As dirty a product as it is possible to get, yet the EU continues to sanction the mining and consumption of this stuff in the millions of tons! Shhh! No need to make a fuss, these mines are not in the UK.
So the trains weren't running anyway then.
That young lady has achieved more in her young life than most and has helped draw attention to the climate change debate.

You on the other hand just waste your time with stupid posts.
I know who I have more respect for.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 13:45
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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Buster15: It is my time and I am free to waste it how I like. I care not one jot whether or not I have your respect.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 13:55
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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Except for a couple of cans - it's all bloody plastic.
Don't understand how people can do that anywhere, much less a park.
Don't these folks all wear backpacks to these things? Ideal for your garbage - - tossers.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 18:03
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
An example:

Stockholm to London, by train ~52kg CO2 per person

Stockholm to London, by air ~258kg CO2 per person

So, travelling by train generates around 20% of the CO2 that the same trip would generate if flying. Seems a significant reduction to me.
I suppose they could have considered something like Skype? But I appreciate a physical presence probably has more impact on the listener even though of course she could not be seen.

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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 22:04
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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El Grifo,
stay awake!

Lownslow has it correctly.

PC Rain keeps the protesters at home. Even Trots, the SWP and the BBC folk need to stay dry.

Thanks for that photo, On the beach. Maybe there wasn't enough room in their 4 x 4s for all that plastic.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 13:28
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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When we talk about trans European rail travel are all the concrete sleepers and bridges taken into account, plus all the badgers that get moved ... That’s a lot of runways !
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 18:13
  #199 (permalink)  
 
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Or all the energy that goes into building the massively heavy trains or making the rails?
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 05:10
  #200 (permalink)  
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